The Changing Landscape

[faberryman]

I don't go to restaurants which are noisy. If political discussion isn't compartmentalized, I would just stop coming to the forum.

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

You know what? The best way to stop political discussion on this forum, is not to join in with it when it rears its ugly head and yes I blame myself here for for feeling the need to reply to Rob's comment on a certain little thing that is happening over here in Blighty right now and which I thought needed an opposing point of view putting forward (although I am sure Rob thinks the exact opposite).

So I promise, I will never discuss politics again on this forum 

Dave

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... So I promise, I will never discuss politics again on this forum 

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

Excellent!!!!

Dave

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Excellent!!!!

Dave

+1.

[LesPalenik]

Very similar method to what they recommend to do when you want to write a letter to your ex.

[Ray Harrison]

Fantastic! Political arguments can be like hitting yourself in the head with a shovel repeatedly. It only affects your head, not that of the other individual. 

[Rob C]

Fantastic! Political arguments can be like hitting yourself in the head with a shovel repeatedly. It only affects your head, not that of the other individual.

If only you were right! If you were, I wouldn't be worried sick about what happens to me at the end of next month. Do I still have medical cover, or am I left to rot as collateral damage?

Really funny.

Rob

[Alan Goldhammer]

If only you were right! If you were, I wouldn't be worried sick about what happens to me at the end of next month. Do I still have medical cover, or am I left to rot as collateral damage?

Really funny.

Rob

They want all the UK ex-pats to move back home.  You can be assured of continued good medical care from the NHS.

[Rob C]

They want all the UK ex-pats to move back home.  You can be assured of continued good medical care from the NHS.

Not in Mallorca: most of us have been net contributors of wealth since the day we arrived because few of us worked here and those who did employed people. The largest group of foreigners buying property here was British: we kept the building industry getting richer and richer until the Crash of 2008. Today, none is buying except the millionaire hedging against the pound going even lower.

In my own case, that amounts to 38 years of buying everything except a D700 and two old lenses in Spain. Add in all the rest, and the island has benefitted to the tune of many thousands of pounds just from me even after my wife's death. Throw in a few cars and I frighten myself: where did it all come from and where did it all go? Photography must have been good at some time!

Regarding care back in the good olde UK: when my mother went back, she had to wait for months before being eligible for some benefits that she had contributed to all her adult life; I wrote to her local authorities on her behalf saying it was kinda strange that a new, foreign person could get into the system right away, but somebody in her 80s, who'd lived there for decades, was British, and had just been absent for about a year, had to wait on returning. The guy told me he understood my point, but that there were no grey areas...

Rob

[Alan Goldhammer]

Not in Mallorca: most of us have been net contributors of wealth since the day we arrived because few of us worked here and those who did employed people. The largest group of foreigners buying property here was British: we kept the building industry getting richer and richer until the Crash of 2008. Today, none is buying except the millionaire hedging against the pound going even lower.

In my own case, that amounts to 38 years of buying everything except a D700 and two old lenses in Spain. Add in all the rest, and the island has benefitted to the tune of many thousands of pounds just from me even after my wife's death. Throw in a few cars and I frighten myself: where did it all come from and where did it all go? Photography must have been good at some time!

don't you qualify for Spanish citizenship given your long term residence?

[Chris Kern]

Inhabited primarily by a select few Americans of the “right” persuasion, the DZ regulars have found themselves in an empty echo chamber, devoid of the attention and conflict on which they thrive.

Actually, before the discussion of politics was banned here, I thought the relatively few American posters of the ‟‘right’ persuasion” were fairly reasonable (albeit argumentative)—by the way, I’m certainly not one of them—and I always had the impression they were targeting their arguments at the rest of us, trying (however hopelessly) to be persuasive, rather than bouncing them off an echo chamber.  Living in a part of the U.S. state of Merryland where esos de la derecha are, shall we say, not particularly well-represented, I enjoyed hearing their points-of-view—if only for the undeniable cardiovascular benefit.

But, for me, the real advantages of this forum for those of us who are inclined to debate public affairs are (1) its international character and (2) the common interest the participants share, which (at least I think) is an inducement to civility.  And the harsh comments that were occasionally exchanged didn’t leave anyone battered and bloody in the street; there is often at least as much heat in some of the technical threads.

[Peter McLennan]

... I enjoyed hearing their points-of-view—if only for the undeniable cardiovascular benefit.

HA!  An actual LOL from me here in -20C western Canada.  I needed that.

[Rob C]

don't you qualify for Spanish citizenship given your long term residence?

Alan, I am British, always was: a fact of birth. I see no sense to pretending I am not.

I paid all my UK taxes and kept up all my UK insurance contributions throughout my residence here in Mallorca. I am as entitled to reap those UK benefits now as is anyone who never set foot out of the UK. The argument could be made that I have been a blessing to that country because for all these years I have not had to molest its medical or social security services for a single penny. If anything, it's the Spanish medical services took on the responsibility (which they were already willing to accept) when the private policy we had been running in tandem became too expensive for a retired pocket.

If this ends badly, the least the UK could do would be to accept responsibility for us stranded folks and provide the service, here, by reimbursing the Spanish providers for their help to UK citizens. That would satisfy my personal needs, but not do a thing for those young people in Britain now risking being deprived of the right to go work wherever on the continent they choose. Imagine if being born in New York meant you were prohibited from going to work in California; it's a close parallel at least in some ways. You would still all be Americans, just as we here are and will still all be Europeans, regardless of what some like to pretend.

[Rob C]

Actually, before the discussion of politics was banned here, I thought the relatively few American posters of the ‟‘right’ persuasion” were fairly reasonable (albeit argumentative)—by the way, I’m certainly not one of them—and I always had the impression they were targeting their arguments at the rest of us, trying (however hopelessly) to be persuasive, rather than bouncing them off an echo chamber.  Living in a part of the U.S. state of Merryland where esos de la derecha are, shall we say, not particularly well-represented, I enjoyed hearing their points-of-view—if only for the undeniable cardiovascular benefit.

But, for me, the real advantages of this forum for those of us who are inclined to debate public affairs are (1) its international character and (2) the common interest the participants share, which (at least I think) is an inducement to civility.  And the harsh comments that were occasionally exchanged didn’t leave anyone battered and bloody in the street; there is often at least as much heat in some of the technical threads.

Chris, it's the same reasoning makes me watch France24.com news and listen to their debates: it gives yet another insight into how different countries and those within them feel and experience communal life. When you have access to that deeper insight you begin to understand the nuances and concerns within parts and groups that go to make the whole, just as reading LuLa tells one much about its membership's experiences. Reading local Spanish newspapers tells one how deeply Brexit is affecting them, too: this island has practically no industry left other than tourism; so far, holiday bookings are down 20% on last year, most of the drop being from the Brits, the best customers the place has ever had. They still want to come, but the drop in the value of their money makes it very expensive. I experience it every time I get my UK pension or have to transfer money. I can only wonder how anybody with a normal job could afford to bring a family with, say, two kids out on holiday and manage to do anything but live in a tent on some beach, and make their own food. As for doing that in Italy...

Someone remarked, perhaps jokingly, that they want us foreigners out: on the contrary, they want more of us because we provide employment. All those Spanish docs and nurses and waiters working in the UK didn't go there because they hate their own way of life, or in the expectation of better weather! They need the work and we (there) their availability and capacity to do it.

I am just setting out the facts as I know them here, not fighting somebody with contrary views, so I honestly believe this is a valid post, not a political harangue.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... so far, holiday bookings are down 20% on last year, most of the drop being from the Brits, the best customers the place has ever had...

Awwww... so sad... no one to watch Benny Hill shows in Spanish bars, then? 😉

[Rob C]

Awwww... so sad... no one to watch Benny Hill shows in Spanish bars, then? 😉

These days, the small bars have a hard time in the predominantly touristy areas: all-inclusive has sounded curtains for many independent operations because some "tourists" - definition notwithstanding - apparently go from airport to hotel to airport, never to set foot outwith the grounds of said a-i hotels. Could be apocryphal; but it seems not impossible.

But hey, why mock them for their tastes, probable insecurities? They, like us, are the product of their lineage and opportunities in life. There but for the grace of etc.

I bumped into David, proprietor of my secondary summer lunching spot this week: thinks he may open again on this coming Friday. However, today's paper said that the season has been put back by six weeks due to lessened demand over this year's early Easter, which date usually marks the grand openng of many establishments; our own groundhog day?

[Alan Goldhammer]

Alan, I am British, always was: a fact of birth. I see no sense to pretending I am not.

I paid all my UK taxes and kept up all my UK insurance contributions throughout my residence here in Mallorca. I am as entitled to reap those UK benefits now as is anyone who never set foot out of the UK. The argument could be made that I have been a blessing to that country because for all these years I have not had to molest its medical or social security services for a single penny. If anything, it's the Spanish medical services took on the responsibility (which they were already willing to accept) when the private policy we had been running in tandem became too expensive for a retired pocket.

If this ends badly, the least the UK could do would be to accept responsibility for us stranded folks and provide the service, here, by reimbursing the Spanish providers for their help to UK citizens. That would satisfy my personal needs, but not do a thing for those young people in Britain now risking being deprived of the right to go work wherever on the continent they choose. Imagine if being born in New York meant you were prohibited from going to work in California; it's a close parallel at least in some ways. You would still all be Americans, just as we here are and will still all be Europeans, regardless of what some like to pretend.

US Medicare insurance is good only in the US and not overseas.  If we were to become ex-pats, Medicare would be useless despite that fact that we have paid for it during our working careers.  There would be no interest on the part of the US government of paying our insurance bills when we are on travel and we make sure to always take out additional health insurance to cover any emergency.  It's not optimal but it's the reality.

[Rob C]

US Medicare insurance is good only in the US and not overseas.  If we were to become ex-pats, Medicare would be useless despite that fact that we have paid for it during our working careers.  There would be no interest on the part of the US government of paying our insurance bills when we are on travel and we make sure to always take out additional health insurance to cover any emergency.  It's not optimal but it's the reality.

As it stands, the UK health service has a reciprocal arrangement with the fellow member countries of the EU; people (British) going to member countries on a non-residential basis need only apply for, and carry, a card (E 111?) that entitles them to the services. My daughter has had to use hers frequently because of ear problems that seem to manifest themselves with swimming pools, and her younger daughter, the doc, ended up in the local hospital with some deep pains when she was just a kid: even then she showed more interest in the procedures than in her problem, which was resolved.

Anyone from the UK going to the States has to carry a distinct, expensive insurance policy; I recall that from our couple of shoots in Florida. I always wondered why a relatively prosperous country like yours didn't appear to have an all-included, cradle-to-grave health insurance plan for its citizens too, free at point of delivery, but contributed to during working life via taxation and obligatory national subscription via pay packet. As with the EU countries, it need have absolutely no bearing on the ability to take out separate private medical insurance for those with pockets that stretch that comfortably. Feels like a basic human consideration that is independent of all other aspects of life. Listening, as I do, to a lot of Louisiana radio, I'm always a bit surprised hearing commercials that tell people their children may be considered in some health insurance if they, the parents, earn in a particular financial bracket. To my ears, it sounds all wrong. But that's just me.

Many in Spain have both forms of insurance, especially when the children are young, because it can save on waiting times. The same doctors often appear, from my personal experience, to work in both services: the nationally provided one as well as the private.

If I were rich, one thing I would do is provide something for the cancer department of our local regional public hospital. Obviously, I mean rich!

[faberryman]

More political discussion in the About this Site forum. You guys have an addiction that needs treatment.