Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: plugsnpixels on October 23, 2018, 01:02:38 pm
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With the new Topaz Studio update to version 1.12.6 we get a fully updated version of AI Clear with the following improvements:
•Auto Button: Analyzes your image to automatically pick an appropriate noise reduction model
•200%-300% speed increase with improved processing and Neural Network to give you even better quality
•New Detail Synthesis: This latest update to the A.I. models in A.I. Clear now allows the model to not only enhance existing details but actually replicate missing detail that may have been completely obscured by noise or artifacts. Now you actually can create missing pixel data with the power of deep learning neural networks
•Intelligent noise detection
•New Sharpness selector: Get even more control over the amount of sharpening applied to your image with a selector for low or high sharpness
•Various bug fixes
See my examples and more info on today's blog post (http://plugsandpixels.com/blog/topaz-studio-update-new-ai-clear-version-3x-faster/).
The update is free if you already own the pro version of the adjustment, or there is an unadvertised discount.
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I used your discount (thank you) to finally purchase AI Clear to see just what it can do with certain types of troublesome images. Invoking AI Clear from Studio crashes Studio. I am running the most up-to-date Studio. I posted a report on the Bug section of the Topaz forum - hopefully someone will see it.
Not good. Topaz software seems like this is par for the course - their technology is interesting, their QA is abysmal. It is difficult to test software that does not work. Right now, my initial impression is that it is 1/∞ faster than the previous version.
Kirk
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Thanks. I'll have to check it out. It is pretty slow so I don't use it that much. I like it compared to DXO Prime because LR settings are retained. I also go outside of LR for troublesome files. I'm still evaluating it.
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Definitely faster. More usable now. I purchased DXO PL 6 months ago and now there is an update for another $80. I think I'll take it out of the tray for a while.
Thanks for the info.
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You're welcome guys.
Kirk, tell me more about your setup and exactly what's going on. I know Topaz takes their QC seriously and always addresses technical issues ASAP.
I did my blog examples using AI Clear on a MacBook Air so I'm not using a high-end rig. I don't recall Studio crashing on me.
I'll write Topaz myself on your behalf if you'd like. They're a small team so if an answer to your forum report is delayed, that might be why.
Zen8, you won't be paying for Clear again. Free updates for life ;-).
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You're welcome guys.
Kirk, tell me more about your setup and exactly what's going on. I know Topaz takes their QC seriously and always addresses technical issues ASAP.
I did my blog examples using AI Clear on a MacBook Air so I'm not using a high-end rig. I don't recall Studio crashing on me.
I'll write Topaz myself on your behalf if you'd like. They're a small team so if an answer to your forum report is delayed, that might be why.
Zen8, you won't be paying for Clear again. Free updates for life ;-).
I buried DXO for now. it was my backup in case drop the plan although it will be tough to give up the DAM. DXO doesn't even have a temporary stack to show you what you have done.
AI Clear is impressive. I tried it on a low ISO file and sure brought fine detail.
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You're welcome guys.
Kirk, tell me more about your setup and exactly what's going on. I know Topaz takes their QC seriously and always addresses technical issues ASAP.
I did my blog examples using AI Clear on a MacBook Air so I'm not using a high-end rig. I don't recall Studio crashing on me.
I'll write Topaz myself on your behalf if you'd like. They're a small team so if an answer to your forum report is delayed, that might be why.
Zen8, you won't be paying for Clear again. Free updates for life ;-).
I already opened a support ticket with them, although their support ticket access system won't let me actually view it to check on the status, etc. Their web interface is terrible.
I replied by email with .crash logs attached, so hopefully they get them and they are helpful. Another user on the Topaz forum has the same problem and also filed a ticket.
I am sure they take their QC seriously, it just needs some QC.
Hopefully it will all get sorted out- I think most of us have grown accustomed to the reality of paying to be beta testers.
Kirk
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Alright, please keep us informed. I will do some testing as well.
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One thing I noticed which the previous version did as well. You can't send the same file twice. For instance I decided to crop more and I want the Topaz version to match. I delete the file in Topaz and LR, sent it to Topaz again and a TIFF opens in LR but nothing in Topaz. The solution is you have to restart Topaz. Also when you modify a file and the save icon lights up and when you save it does save update or send a new file to LR.
Not big deal but even sending a file a second or third there or back back for comparisons would-be nice. Maybe some future update. I have not checked the preferences yet.
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Would using "Save As" in the file menu (as opposed to the Save disk icon at lower right) help? That's what I tend to do to keep each iteration separate.
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I haven't tried that yet. Actually since now it works faster I'm exploring it more. It does save your changes but it doesn't show in LR. To the right is the cranked up exposure after exporting in LR.
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Save as just saves a Jpeg, etc. No biggie. Something I noticed and there is a work around. It will save changes but it would be nice to see them. For now it is one shot process. If you want to make changes then you have to delete the TIFF in LR and restart Topaz. Best practise for now, for me anyway.
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Alright, please keep us informed. I will do some testing as well.
As an aside - it does not crash my MacBook Pro, just my MacPro - my guess is that it is a GPU-related issue. Bummer, because the MacPro has dual fast cards, which would be nice to be able to use.
kirk
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Zen8, if you use Save As, under File Format you can choose TSP, JPEG, TIFF & PNG.
kirkt, perhaps you're right. Those Pro's can do weird things sometimes (I support about 75 of them in higher ed Art labs). Even Apple has moved on from them...
I just tested on a 2013 fusion iMac with Mojave 10.14.1 (beta) with the latest Topaz Studio and had no issues.
Here's a screenshot of a Canon Rebel T3 shot (detail crop) which was way mushier than I realized. Clear did nice work on it.
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Does it go back to LR?
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I don't use LR but I have both versions. What is the exact workflow you use?
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From the beginning I pre-cull using Canon's DPP, import into LR, pretty much edit everything in LR expect for sending out to PS or something like AI Clear, back as a TIFF and export using LR.
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OK thanks. Please clarify the "back as a TIFF and export using LR" part. Are you doing further treatment to the results you are getting from the non-LR apps? Or could you just stop the workflow with the TIFF from the other apps?
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Clear did nice work on it.
YMMV, I think the results on the right aren't an improvement at all. In some areas it makes the image look worse, eg where there's no detail in the foliage top right looks worse because of the over sharpened area below. The colour shifts aren't great either.
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Thanks Rhossydd for your feedback.
That was a quickie; perhaps I could have used Gigapixel to restore the detail and bring it back down in size.
To my eye the "before" is pale mush and the "after" better overall, but I see what you mean. This was shot with the stock Canon short zoom, perhaps I need to replace it with something else ;-)
I did purposely darken the overall result (exposure -30); perhaps that's the color shift you see?
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That was a quickie;
I'd suggest detailing the differences between each side as a first step. What raw conversion process has been used and at what settings. Then any influence of AIC can be more easily understood.
In my tests, detailed in a different thread, I found that AIC offered little benefit above good and appropriate processing in LR or CO.
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Good point. That wasn't meant to be a true test, I was just checking for kirkt to make sure TS didn't crash ;-)
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OK thanks. Please clarify the "back as a TIFF and export using LR" part. Are you doing further treatment to the results you are getting from the non-LR apps? Or could you just stop the workflow with the TIFF from the other apps?
You can only send a file to Topaz as a TIFF, PSD or Jpeg. Since it goes to LR as a TIFF when you press Save (bottom right hand corner) it comes back as a TIFF. Actually the TIFF in LR is created immediately as soon as you send it. Typically I don't anymore editing back in LR. I do all my editing before sending it to Topaz. No I'd prefer to continue to use LR.
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"You can only send a file to Topaz as a TIFF, PSD or Jpeg".
Topaz Studio imports RAW as well.
"Since it goes to LR as a TIFF when you press Save (bottom right hand corner)..."
When you press the Save icon (lower right) in TS it saves/overwrites to the original location, nothing to do with LR as far as I can tell.
"it comes back as a TIFF."
Back from where? Do you mean "is saved as"?
Other than that I really can't follow your description. I'm not sure what "send it" means (export from TS? import into LR?). You say you don't edit any more back in LR but you prefer to use LR (?).
I'm trying to figure this out really ;-)
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"You can only send a file to Topaz as a TIFF, PSD or Jpeg".
Topaz Studio imports RAW as well.
"Since it goes to LR as a TIFF when you press Save (bottom right hand corner)..."
When you press the Save icon (lower right) in TS it saves/overwrites to the original location, nothing to do with LR as far as I can tell.
"it comes back as a TIFF."
Back from where? Do you mean "is saved as"?
Other than that I really can't follow your description. I'm not sure what "send it" means (export from TS? import into LR?). You say you don't edit any more back in LR but you prefer to use LR (?).
I'm trying to figure this out really ;-)
NP. My apologies that I'm not explaining it well. I keep forgetting you don't use LR so I'm not putting in much effort.
LR is main software. I don't plan to import RAW into Topaz. I'm using it as a plug-in. That will rename.
When you send (using the Edit in Topaz Studio command) a file from LR to Topaz, LR creates a TIFF immediately and places it beside the original CR2 - in LR. Topaz syncs to that TIFF in LR. A TIFF because that is the default. I can also choose DNG or Jpeg but that is not critical now. In Topaz there is a "Save" icon in the bottom right hand corner. Not Save As. When you are done with the edits and press "Save" it saves those changes to the TIFF file that is in LR - beside the original CR2.
What I have been saying is if you make any additional edits in Topaz and you press "Save" a second time, those edits do not not show in the filmstrip in LR, only when you export. So 3 months down the road you wouldn't know that there were additional edits applied.
Also if you want to start over by deleting the file in Topaz and sending that same file again from LR it won't open in Topaz.
In both cases I have to restart Topaz.
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Hope I that is better. Trying to do this and watch a hockey game. :)
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Yes, that was good! I was not thinking "inside LR".
And today I am trying to learn to use JAMF to manage computer labs. I think hockey would be more enjoyable ;-)
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Yes, that was good! I was not thinking "inside LR".
And today I am trying to learn to use JAMF to manage computer labs. I think hockey would be more enjoyable ;-)
Most of the time. Not tonight. We are not doing well. Glad we aren't at that game.
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As an update: I was contacted by Topaz support and told to download the Studio installer from the website and run it. Ok.
The first run uninstalled the existing, up-to-date version of Studio and then downloaded all of the components and started a fresh install - the fresh install locked up about 3/4 of the way through the process. I force quit it and restarted the installer and it successfully completed the fresh install and AI Clear no longer crashes Studio. I have no idea if they updated anything or if the "just hit CTRL-ALT-DEL and everything will work again" is the troubleshooting approach.
Brute force wins the day - I'm not impressed.
kirk
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Sorry for your troubles. Mine went smoothly. It should tell you if an update is required. The latest is 1. 12.6. You don't need to update AI Clear itself. It is part of the Studio update. They made some changes. If you see this you have the latest.
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Sorry for your troubles. Mine went smoothly. It should tell you if an update is required. The latest is 1. 12.6. You don't need to update AI Clear itself. It is part of the Studio update. They made some changes. If you see this you have the latest.
I updated Studio to 1.12.6 (the latest version) from within Studio before I purchased AI Clear. That is what set off the entire problem. I updated to the current version of Studio and AI Clear crashed it. Only on my MacPro that has 32GB of RAM and that has 2x AMD FirePro 500 video cards, each w 3GB or RAM - it did not cause a problem on my MacBook Pro laptop. Studio never had problems before on either machine when I demo'ed AI Clear previously, but I suspect that the new and improved AI Clear had some problems that are now hopefully fixed.
Whatever. It works now.
kirk
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I have the latest update of A.I. Clear and I just tried it on a couple of images. It is doing something that bothers me.
Here are 2 comparisons with the original on the left & A.I. Clear on the right. It is changing some of the color, giving some areas a more green or cyanish tint.....is it trying to correct what it thinks should be color corrected. If that is the case I don't like that it does that. How can I keep the color of the original while enhancing sharpness & reducing noise?
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How can I keep the color of the original while enhancing sharpness & reducing noise?
Use it on a duplicate layer set to luminosity blend mode.
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Ok. now that I have given A.I. Clear a deeper look I see you can change the blend mode in the software......color shift problem solved...Luminosity
blend mode. I still wonder what's going on in regards to the color shift.
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So is anyone seeing artifacts after exporting from Topaz. Save as or Save - back to LR. Topaz instructs to turn off all other NR before sending to a file to it. If you do that what are our results. It looks clean in Topaz.
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About those bad artifacts. My iMac does not have enough VRAM to run AI Clear. Someone on the Topaz forum suggested to crop to about 2000 on the long side and try it. It worked. No artifacts. I guess I'll dust it off until I replace my iMac next year.
I have 512MB
https://help.topazlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/115004759908-Topaz-Studio-Minimum-Requirements-and-Recommended-Hardware
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Zen8, did you see my blog post (http://plugsandpixels.com/blog/cutting-edge-software-vs-obsolete-hardware-we-accept-the-challenge/) about using Gigapixel on ancient hardware?
So it seems from your own experience Gigapixel will work up until a point with less VRAM. I will need to experiment on the 2008 MBP to see what that point is. Might take awhile ;-)
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No I didn't. Interesting. I tried at 3,000 on the long side and it started to show. It is OK for low ISO if you some detail enhancement. Topaz suggests to turn all NR and Sharpening off. If you leave NR on only for example editing a file from LR it works better. Hard to tell what you are really getting.
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About those bad artifacts. My iMac does not have enough VRAM to run AI Clear. Someone on the Topaz forum suggested to crop to about 2000 on the long side and try it. It worked. No artifacts. I guess I'll dust it off until I replace my iMac next year.
I have 512MB
https://help.topazlabs.com/hc/en-us/articles/115004759908-Topaz-Studio-Minimum-Requirements-and-Recommended-Hardware
My MacPro has 32GB of RAM and 2 video cards with 3GB of RAM each and I get artifacts with hi ISO images. Neither of these things is the cause. The artifacts show up at full res, but do not when I let AI Clear reduce the size of the image. Neat Image cleans up the full res image better than AI Clear and can be automated with a PS Action. Just a basic observation.
First Image - Before: Top (noisy image, in PS, 100% zoom) + Bottom (Screenshot of AI Clear preview);
Second Image - After: Top (in PS, 100% zoom, treated with AI Clear- note wormy white speckle artifacts) + Bottom (AI Clear preview). The AI Clear preview looks correct, but the processed image has artifacts not present in the preview.
This happens on my MacPro and my MacBook Pro with 16GB RAM and 2048 GB VRAM.
Kirk
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Thanks kirkt, can you provide this or a similar image for me to play with?
Also, are you running Clear on the entire uncropped image, and if so, what is its full resolution?
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Yeah something is going on. The previews look great in Topaz. I would expect it just to take longer just like the Gigapixel blog but still produce correct results. I started a thread at Topaz and the mod told me I was shooting too high an ISO. Then this happened. The mod shut it down. That second last post is not me but a continuation about applying AI to a smaller sized file. I also opened a support request and have not heard from them.
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Forgot to say. What am I supposed to do now? How am I supposed to get the help I'm looking for. I'm not going to start another thread. I also tried it on my MacBook Air with 1.5GB VRAM but only 4GB memory. Same thing.
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Found another thread
http://discuss.topazlabs.com/t/ai-clear-saved-results-dont-match-preview/8143
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So based on that thread at Topaz. All full sized Jpeg exports at 200%. 1st image is direct in and out of Topaz, no changes. 2nd is in and out of Topaz with recovery set to 0. 3rd is exported from LR as a TIFF, saved back to LR and exported as a full sized Jpeg.
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Direct in and out using Topaz. Not as bad but still getting them. 200%
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Zen8, I just got home and saw your posts and did a quick test on my trusty MacBook Air (Intel HD Graphics 5000 1536 MB).
The original very noisy uncropped image was taken by someone else in 2009, with a Canon Cr2, the result being 3861x2574 pixels, 17.4MB.
I opened in it PS/Camera RAW and saved it out as a straight TIFF, as shot, then brought it straight into TS (no LR involved).
Here is a split before-and-after 100% screenshot in Topaz Studio 1.12.6 using AI Clear as an Adjustment, followed by a 100% crop from the full frame processed image. I believe the results look the same as the preview.
Also, I will write my contact at Topaz and refer them to the threads where you felt you were not being heard.
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Thanks kirkt, can you provide this or a similar image for me to play with?
Also, are you running Clear on the entire uncropped image, and if so, what is its full resolution?
Full res image from Fujifilm X-H1 = 6000 x 4000.
I will pm you a Dropbox link to the Tiff that I fed to AIClearwhen I get to work.
Kirk
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A hacky solution would be to run from within PS an action that slices a full res image into quarters, processes each quarter in AI Clear, and then reassembles the quarters into a complete image at full, original image dimensions.
Ridiculous, but it "works."
As you decrease the pixel dimensions of the high ISO image, the artifacts become less noticeable. They are especially problematic in out of focus areas with vague detail, as if the AI is being fooled into sharpening or creating detail where it should not exist. Sure, you could use the treated image as a layer and paint in the useable areas with a mask, but that defeats the purpose.
kirk
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Zen8, I just got home and saw your posts and did a quick test on my trusty MacBook Air (Intel HD Graphics 5000 1536 MB).
The original very noisy uncropped image was taken by someone else in 2009, with a Canon Cr2, the result being 3861x2574 pixels, 17.4MB.
I opened in it PS/Camera RAW and saved it out as a straight TIFF, as shot, then brought it straight into TS (no LR involved).
Here is a split before-and-after 100% screenshot in Topaz Studio 1.12.6 using AI Clear as an Adjustment, followed by a 100% crop from the full frame processed image. I believe the results look the same as the preview.
Also, I will write my contact at Topaz and refer them to the threads where you felt you were not being heard.
I think they know it is an LR and PS issue when going through either. Thanks for offer to contact Topaz. Looking forward to that. I dragged a CR2 file directly into AI Clear and the results were better. I don't have the recommended VRAM so maybe that is a factor preventing a perfect match to the preview.
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A hacky solution would be to run from within PS an action that slices a full res image into quarters, processes each quarter in AI Clear, and then reassembles the quarters into a complete image at full, original image dimensions.
Ridiculous, but it "works."
As you decrease the pixel dimensions of the high ISO image, the artifacts become less noticeable. They are especially problematic in out of focus areas with vague detail, as if the AI is being fooled into sharpening or creating detail where it should not exist. Sure, you could use the treated image as a layer and paint in the useable areas with a mask, but that defeats the purpose.
kirk
That sounds like a good idea but more than I want to take on. One workaround is to ignore Topaz's instructions and send a file from LR without turning off NR adjustments. I'm not sure what is going on in Topaz but not following their procedures I have to verify if I'm getting plasticky look or not.
1st image is LR with NR. 2nd is back from AI.
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I think they know it is an LR and PS issue when going through either. Thanks for offer to contact Topaz. Looking forward to that. I dragged a CR2 file directly into AI Clear and the results were better. I don't have the recommended VRAM so maybe that is a factor preventing a perfect match to the preview.
I get the artifacts shown in my previous example when I load the full res TIFF into the standalone version of Studio and run AI Clear on it as well. I doubt that, in my example, it has anything to do with the host application or the RAM or whatever - it appears to be the algorithm.
Kirk
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I get the artifacts shown in my previous example when I load the full res TIFF into the standalone version of Studio and run AI Clear on it as well. I doubt that, in my example, it has anything to do with the host application or the RAM or whatever - it appears to be the algorithm.
Kirk
I agree 100%. People mentioned PS or LR and since this is early in the game they may have assumed that was the cause.
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I'd like to stick with it because as a details enhancer it does a good job. This is about an 80% crop. 1st image is out of LR with all edits. 2nd is back from AI and exported using LR. Same export settings but no capture sharpening applied (detail tab).
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Use it on a duplicate layer set to luminosity blend mode.
How would one approach this using LR?
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How would one approach this using LR?
Sorry, not familiar with running Topaz straight from LR. However, via Photoshop Topaz Studio allows you to apply blend modes to your adjustments. I'd imagine the same functionality is present in the LR plugin, but I'll defer to those more versed in that workflow.
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Thanks kirkt, I was able to reproduce those same artifacts on a fusion iMac (NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 1024 MB).
Are you getting the artifacts with any other image, or images from other camera brands? It would be interesting if that was not the case, and if it still is, then a software fix would be needed.
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Sorry, not familiar with running Topaz straight from LR. However, via Photoshop Topaz Studio allows you to apply blend modes to your adjustments. I'd imagine the same functionality is present in the LR plugin, but I'll defer to those more versed in that workflow.
Thanks. LR does not have that but I just adjusted the tint a bit. Not sure why that would be required at all. Might be part if this algorithm thing. I know they aren't the same but a good idea it bring it up.
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Thanks. LR does not have that but I just adjusted the tint a bit. Not sure why that would be required at all. Might be part if this algorithm thing. I know they aren't the same but a good idea it bring it up.
Are you able to make a screen grab of the AI Clear interface you're working with? The right side where the adjustments are. I'm tempted to think you should/do have the blend mode option.
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Here you go.
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See my red rectangle. That's a blend mode drop down menu. Set it to Luminosity.
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Thanks. l've used luminosity in PS for sharpening. Never thought of it here.
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Thanks. l've used luminosity in PS for sharpening. Never thought of it here.
Useful anytime you get an undesirable color shift, added saturation, etc.
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Thanks kirkt, I was able to reproduce those same artifacts on a fusion iMac (NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 1024 MB).
Are you getting the artifacts with any other image, or images from other camera brands? It would be interesting if that was not the case, and if it still is, then a software fix would be needed.
I have not looked into that much. The TIFF is a demosaiced, RGB image - unless the pattern of noise coming from a particular sensor or sensor type is contributing to the problem, the camera shouldn't not make any difference. I have a Ricoh GRII - I will take a few hi-ISO test shots with it (the sensor is smaller, so the image dimensions will be drastically different) and see if I can reproduce the problem.
kirk
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I'm coming to this discussion late, please forgive duplications.
I got so badly burned by installing an On1 suite a while back (to get what's left of Genuine Fractals) that the thought of going through anything like that again gives me chills. Topaz Studio seems to have echos of that package.
My question is this:
AI Clear sounds like it would be great for processing images from drones, smartphones, and other slightly impaired cameras. But it appears I must install Topaz Studio to access it. Just how intrusive is Topaz Studio when used with Photoshop and Lightroom?
I have long used excellent standalone Topaz plugins like Clarity and Detail3. But I have zero interest in the cheap-thrill features that seem to characterize Studio, or the Studio paradigm in general. I'm unwilling to have that stuff adding rubbish my workflow any way. Does this connect with anybody? If so, please tell me it's all OK, or not OK. Or just skip to the next post. THX.
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AI Clear produces the same wormy white speckled artifacts with my Ricoh GRII at ISO 6400.
Kirk
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Thanks for posting an example.
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I have long used excellent standalone Topaz plugins like Clarity and Detail3. But I have zero interest in the cheap-thrill features that seem to characterize Studio, or the Studio paradigm in general. I'm unwilling to have that stuff adding rubbish my workflow any way. Does this connect with anybody? If so, please tell me it's all OK, or not OK. Or just skip to the next post. THX.
Bill, Topaz Studio is the new "home" for Topaz technology (whereas they used to focus on the standalone plug-ins). Topaz is migrating their creative and corrective plug-in features into Studio "Adjustments" as well as creating new standalone AI software. See my blog posts (http://www.plugsandpixels.com/blog) for details and my own examples.
Any of this has nothing to do with your PS install (they live together happily in your Applications folder and are entirely separate if you want them to be).
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AI Clear produces the same wormy white speckled artifacts with my Ricoh GRII at ISO 6400.
Kirk
Kirk, I am in touch with Topaz directly and they are looking into this. I did some further tests with my own CR2 images (not high ISO though, I would need to purposely shoot some) and am not getting any artifacts.
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Kirk, I am in touch with Topaz directly and they are looking into this. I did some further tests with my own CR2 images (not high ISO though, I would need to purposely shoot some) and am not getting any artifacts.
Take some high ISO shots and process them with AI Clear. You will get the artifacts. You need to process full res images, otherwise you are removing noise via image interpolation and averaging when you reduce the pixel dimensions. Examine the resulting image at 100% and 200% and you will see the structured pattern that is created in large uniform areas of vague detail (like out of focus backgrounds - see attached image).
Another problem with AI Clear is that there is no way to turn off the "Remove Noise" or "Enhance Sharpness" controls so that you can disable parts of AI Clear. Even for purposes of testing, this would be nice.
I get it, Topaz and Skylum are trying to differentiate themselves by claiming their AI tech is going to revolutionize something, but it would be nice if it worked before rushing it out the door to be "first" in the market. Hopefully Topaz are objective and listen, instead of blaming users' machine specs. If AI Clear cannot handle hi ISO images, or images that are "large" (but really just typical pixel dimensions for most digital cameras nowadays) that's fine - but don't displace the blame onto the user, just admit that your software doesn't work in these conditions. Almost any image processing application can make quick work of a relatively noise-free, relatively sharp image.
When a new update magically works and does not create artifacts on the same machines that Topaz were blaming for the artifacts before the update, it will be obvious that the machine specs had nothing to do with it and that the application was not working until they fixed it at the behest of paying customers who tested it for them.
kirk
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I get clean files at low ISO and I like how it enhances them. I noticed when I save the settings so it updates the TIFF in LR, the TIFF disappears and reappears 3 times before settling down. Not sure if that is important.
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Kirk, the image I showed in post 45 is from my recent blog post (http://plugsandpixels.com/blog/topaz-studio-update-new-ai-clear-version-3x-faster/) and was shot at ISO 12,800 (2009 tech). Clear handled it just fine, FWIW.
As for the current issues you are experiencing (and which I confirmed on my own system with your sample image), I don't doubt that Topaz will identify the cause and address it soon in an update. I was told your report was passed to the development team.
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Kirk, the image I showed in post 45 is from my recent blog post (http://plugsandpixels.com/blog/topaz-studio-update-new-ai-clear-version-3x-faster/) and was shot at ISO 12,800 (2009 tech). Clear handled it just fine, FWIW.
As for the current issues you are experiencing (and which I confirmed on my own system with your sample image), I don't doubt that Topaz will identify the cause and address it soon in an update. I was told your report was passed to the development team.
Thanks for the update. I break stuff - that's what I do. Hopefully it is helpful to someone!
kirk
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Kirk, the image I showed in post 45 is from my recent blog post (http://plugsandpixels.com/blog/topaz-studio-update-new-ai-clear-version-3x-faster/) and was shot at ISO 12,800 (2009 tech). Clear handled it just fine, FWIW.
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Care to PM me a link to download that 5DII image? I'd like to see what I get on my end.
Kirk
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PM sent, let us know how it goes.
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PM sent, let us know how it goes.
Hi PnP,
I received your raw file. It is a Canon 5DII raw file shot art ISO 12800, but it is an sRAW1 file, not a full res raw file. There is some funkiness that goes into the sRAW files, including, obviously, changing the pixel dimensions of the resulting file. This also tends to change the nature of the noise in the file - it is "chunkier" than full res file noise. Here is a comparison of raw, sRAW1 and sRAW2 for the Canon 5DII from imaging-resource.com:
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E5D2/E5D2SRAW.HTM
I downloaded the three raw file types shot by them at ISO 12800 and took a look at the noise and then processed the raw and the sRAW1 file in AI Clear. The full res file contains the white speckly, wormy artifact, whereas the sRAW1 files does not, but there is noticeable lower frequency blotchiness in the sRAW1 file due to the chunkier noise in the original file. See attached images - the first image is a comparison of the noise in the raw and sRAW1 files - this is a screenshot of the two images in PS, with the zoom level of the two files matched so that the image features are roughly the same size. The second image is the result of applying AI Clear, using the default settings.
Both images were converted in Raw Photo Processor, which does no noise reduction or sharpening. The "Blur Chroma" option was disabled. The raw file was converted using VCDMF interpolation; the sRAW1 file is already interpolated in-camera. Both were converted to 16bit TIFF, sRGB.
The fact that your sample image did not show the high-frequency speckly, wormy artifact in the shadow areas is likely the result of the sRAW1 file used as input. Interpolation and reduction in pixel dimensions combined the high-frequency noise into a different, lower-frequency (chunkier) form that appears as blotches instead of speckles.
Also attached is the overall test scene that imaging-resource uses for all of its camera sample images. The area of interest is highlighted with a yellow box.
I have found that if you use the full res image treated with AI Clear and hit it with a couple of passes of the Despeckle filter in PS, and then use some gentle deconvolution to recover the original sharpness of the image, you get a decent result.
kirk
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Thanks Kirk for the additional info, interesting. I received that extreme ISO file years ago when I had no RAW examples of my own.
At any rate, I fully expect Topaz to explore and address this since they are aware of your image and test results.
I'll let you know if I hear anything further.
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Thanks Kirk for the additional info, interesting. I received that extreme ISO file years ago when I had no RAW examples of my own.
At any rate, I fully expect Topaz to explore and address this since they are aware of your image and test results.
I'll let you know if I hear anything further.
Thanks for taking the time to wander down this rabbit hole with me!
Kirk
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No problem, it's a legit inquiry!
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There was a Topaz Studio update. It didn't say what it was but there is no improvement yet.
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Zen8, the changelog is this:
"Update V1.13.0 has the following changes:
New Features:
- We added GPU processing to A.I. Remix
- We added Ownership and Resource synchronization
GUI Modifications:
- none
Bug Fixes:
- We fixed a problem where the user interface would flicker for Windows 10 users on Intel 5-6 series cards
- We fixed a problem where some users on MacOS were getting crashing when using A.I. Clear after updating
- We fixed a problem where some users were experiencing crashes when using Impression"
See my blog post (http://plugsandpixels.com/blog/topaz-goes-wild-a-i-remix-update-unadvertised-discount/) for coverage of the AI ReMix update.
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Thanks
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I noticed there was a recent update to Studio - whatever was updated did not address the issues in AI Clear that have been pointed out in this thread. The Preview in Studio still looks decent whereas the end result once the image is fully processed has significant luminosity and color shifts and has the wormy, speckled pattern in the areas of vague detail.
Just an FYI.
kirk
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See the list of updates a couple posts back.
This update mainly focused on AI ReMix features (http://plugsandpixels.com/blog/topaz-goes-wild-a-i-remix-update-unadvertised-discount/), plus a few bug fixes (including AI Clear), but not the one you were looking for.
I know they're aware and surely working on it.
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It seems Topaz resolved the worm issue. I basically gave up on it and someone on another site pointed out there was an update. LR to Topaz and back. No worms. This is 100% crop.
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That's great, Zen8! Thanks for the update.
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AI Clear in Studio 1.14.1 - sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but the output has not changed at all in any of the test images I have used previously to illustrate the wormy artifact issue before. The Preview in studio still shows a clean image, while the actual, processed result that ends up back in PS is an artifact-laden mess.
AI Clear is what it is, YMMV.
Kirk
AI Clear - Preview in Studio (top image)
AI Clear - processed result shown in PS (bottom image)
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That is too bad. I'm running it on my MacBook Air with Mojave that just meets the VRAM specs. 4 GB and running all my software I have about 500 MB memory left all of the time. I had to buy the cheapest laptop for travel. :(
I'm away from home and my iMac is still on High Sierra. When I get home I'll update and see what happens.
1st one is LR only. 2nd LR to Topaz and back.
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I have noticed something. It appears after the fix it appears less aggressive. I am travelling and really hate using a laptop for anything but I'll give it a closer look when I get back.
These are screen shots so pre- export.
1. File with my base sharpening at import. Amount = 50. Detail 75
2. As per Topaz instructions I turned everything off in the Detail window.
3. Export to Topaz. This is after AI Clear was applied.
4. This is switching back to before AI was applied
5. Topaz back in LR.
I'm looking at the emblem in the centre. In my opinion LR shows better detail. NR is better than LR bit I don't care about that. Detail is more important to me. Before the fix AI Clear eve at the low default level was much better.
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Sorry it only let me post 4 images.
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As you can see image 2 is in LR without sharpening. It looks better that image 4 without AI applied in Topaz. Despite the worms the detail was far better before the fix. I was just notified of another Topaz update which I'll get to later.