Topic: Topaz AI Clear adjustment update (>3x faster) (Read 12916 times)

Zen8 · « **Reply #60 on:** October 30, 2018, 05:51:50 pm »

Thanks. l've used luminosity in PS for sharpening. Never thought of it here.

smahn · « **Reply #61 on:** October 30, 2018, 06:03:02 pm »

Quote from: Zen8 on October 30, 2018, 05:51:50 pm

Thanks. l've used luminosity in PS for sharpening. Never thought of it here.

Useful anytime you get an undesirable color shift, added saturation, etc.

kirkt · « **Reply #62 on:** October 31, 2018, 07:32:47 am »

Quote from: plugsnpixels on October 30, 2018, 02:55:30 pm

Thanks kirkt, I was able to reproduce those same artifacts on a fusion iMac (NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 1024 MB).

Are you getting the artifacts with any other image, or images from other camera brands? It would be interesting if that was not the case, and if it still is, then a software fix would be needed.

I have not looked into that much. The TIFF is a demosaiced, RGB image - unless the pattern of noise coming from a particular sensor or sensor type is contributing to the problem, the camera shouldn't not make any difference. I have a Ricoh GRII - I will take a few hi-ISO test shots with it (the sensor is smaller, so the image dimensions will be drastically different) and see if I can reproduce the problem.

kirk

bill t. · « **Reply #63 on:** October 31, 2018, 04:41:46 pm »

I'm coming to this discussion late, please forgive duplications.

I got so badly burned by installing an On1 suite a while back (to get what's left of Genuine Fractals) that the thought of going through anything like that again gives me chills. Topaz Studio seems to have echos of that package.

My question is this:

AI Clear sounds like it would be great for processing images from drones, smartphones, and other slightly impaired cameras. But it appears I must install Topaz Studio to access it. Just how intrusive is Topaz Studio when used with Photoshop and Lightroom?

I have long used excellent standalone Topaz plugins like Clarity and Detail3. But I have zero interest in the cheap-thrill features that seem to characterize Studio, or the Studio paradigm in general. I'm unwilling to have that stuff adding rubbish my workflow any way. Does this connect with anybody? If so, please tell me it's all OK, or not OK. Or just skip to the next post. THX.

kirkt · « **Reply #64 on:** October 31, 2018, 06:10:59 pm »

AI Clear produces the same wormy white speckled artifacts with my Ricoh GRII at ISO 6400.

Kirk

Zen8 · « **Reply #65 on:** October 31, 2018, 06:31:11 pm »

Thanks for posting an example.

plugsnpixels · « **Reply #66 on:** October 31, 2018, 06:52:40 pm »

Quote from: bill t. on October 31, 2018, 04:41:46 pm

I have long used excellent standalone Topaz plugins like Clarity and Detail3. But I have zero interest in the cheap-thrill features that seem to characterize Studio, or the Studio paradigm in general. I'm unwilling to have that stuff adding rubbish my workflow any way. Does this connect with anybody? If so, please tell me it's all OK, or not OK. Or just skip to the next post. THX.

Bill, Topaz Studio is the new "home" for Topaz technology (whereas they used to focus on the standalone plug-ins). Topaz is migrating their creative and corrective plug-in features into Studio "Adjustments" as well as creating new standalone AI software. See my blog posts for details and my own examples.

Any of this has nothing to do with your PS install (they live together happily in your Applications folder and are entirely separate if you want them to be).

plugsnpixels · « **Reply #67 on:** October 31, 2018, 06:55:02 pm »

Quote from: kirkt on October 31, 2018, 06:10:59 pm

AI Clear produces the same wormy white speckled artifacts with my Ricoh GRII at ISO 6400.

Kirk

Kirk, I am in touch with Topaz directly and they are looking into this. I did some further tests with my own CR2 images (not high ISO though, I would need to purposely shoot some) and am not getting any artifacts.

kirkt · « **Reply #68 on:** November 01, 2018, 12:01:43 pm »

Quote from: plugsnpixels on October 31, 2018, 06:55:02 pm

Kirk, I am in touch with Topaz directly and they are looking into this. I did some further tests with my own CR2 images (not high ISO though, I would need to purposely shoot some) and am not getting any artifacts.

Take some high ISO shots and process them with AI Clear. You will get the artifacts. You need to process full res images, otherwise you are removing noise via image interpolation and averaging when you reduce the pixel dimensions. Examine the resulting image at 100% and 200% and you will see the structured pattern that is created in large uniform areas of vague detail (like out of focus backgrounds - see attached image).

Another problem with AI Clear is that there is no way to turn off the "Remove Noise" or "Enhance Sharpness" controls so that you can disable parts of AI Clear. Even for purposes of testing, this would be nice.

I get it, Topaz and Skylum are trying to differentiate themselves by claiming their AI tech is going to revolutionize something, but it would be nice if it worked before rushing it out the door to be "first" in the market. Hopefully Topaz are objective and listen, instead of blaming users' machine specs. If AI Clear cannot handle hi ISO images, or images that are "large" (but really just typical pixel dimensions for most digital cameras nowadays) that's fine - but don't displace the blame onto the user, just admit that your software doesn't work in these conditions. Almost any image processing application can make quick work of a relatively noise-free, relatively sharp image.

When a new update magically works and does not create artifacts on the same machines that Topaz were blaming for the artifacts before the update, it will be obvious that the machine specs had nothing to do with it and that the application was not working until they fixed it at the behest of paying customers who tested it for them.

kirk

Zen8 · « **Reply #69 on:** November 01, 2018, 12:15:04 pm »

I get clean files at low ISO and I like how it enhances them. I noticed when I save the settings so it updates the TIFF in LR, the TIFF disappears and reappears 3 times before settling down. Not sure if that is important.

plugsnpixels · « **Reply #70 on:** November 01, 2018, 01:12:44 pm »

Kirk, the image I showed in post 45 is from my recent blog post and was shot at ISO 12,800 (2009 tech). Clear handled it just fine, FWIW.

As for the current issues you are experiencing (and which I confirmed on my own system with your sample image), I don't doubt that Topaz will identify the cause and address it soon in an update. I was told your report was passed to the development team.

kirkt · « **Reply #71 on:** November 01, 2018, 02:05:23 pm »

Quote from: plugsnpixels on November 01, 2018, 01:12:44 pm

Kirk, the image I showed in post 45 is from my recent blog post and was shot at ISO 12,800 (2009 tech). Clear handled it just fine, FWIW.

As for the current issues you are experiencing (and which I confirmed on my own system with your sample image), I don't doubt that Topaz will identify the cause and address it soon in an update. I was told your report was passed to the development team.

Thanks for the update. I break stuff - that's what I do. Hopefully it is helpful to someone!

kirk

kirkt · « **Reply #72 on:** November 01, 2018, 02:06:56 pm »

Quote from: plugsnpixels on November 01, 2018, 01:12:44 pm

Kirk, the image I showed in post 45 is from my recent blog post and was shot at ISO 12,800 (2009 tech). Clear handled it just fine, FWIW.
...

Care to PM me a link to download that 5DII image? I'd like to see what I get on my end.

Kirk

plugsnpixels · « **Reply #73 on:** November 01, 2018, 02:44:29 pm »

PM sent, let us know how it goes.

kirkt · « **Reply #74 on:** November 02, 2018, 08:21:55 pm »

Quote from: plugsnpixels on November 01, 2018, 02:44:29 pm

PM sent, let us know how it goes.

Hi PnP,

I received your raw file. It is a Canon 5DII raw file shot art ISO 12800, but it is an sRAW1 file, not a full res raw file. There is some funkiness that goes into the sRAW files, including, obviously, changing the pixel dimensions of the resulting file. This also tends to change the nature of the noise in the file - it is "chunkier" than full res file noise. Here is a comparison of raw, sRAW1 and sRAW2 for the Canon 5DII from imaging-resource.com:

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E5D2/E5D2SRAW.HTM

I downloaded the three raw file types shot by them at ISO 12800 and took a look at the noise and then processed the raw and the sRAW1 file in AI Clear. The full res file contains the white speckly, wormy artifact, whereas the sRAW1 files does not, but there is noticeable lower frequency blotchiness in the sRAW1 file due to the chunkier noise in the original file. See attached images - the first image is a comparison of the noise in the raw and sRAW1 files - this is a screenshot of the two images in PS, with the zoom level of the two files matched so that the image features are roughly the same size. The second image is the result of applying AI Clear, using the default settings.

Both images were converted in Raw Photo Processor, which does no noise reduction or sharpening. The "Blur Chroma" option was disabled. The raw file was converted using VCDMF interpolation; the sRAW1 file is already interpolated in-camera. Both were converted to 16bit TIFF, sRGB.

The fact that your sample image did not show the high-frequency speckly, wormy artifact in the shadow areas is likely the result of the sRAW1 file used as input. Interpolation and reduction in pixel dimensions combined the high-frequency noise into a different, lower-frequency (chunkier) form that appears as blotches instead of speckles.

Also attached is the overall test scene that imaging-resource uses for all of its camera sample images. The area of interest is highlighted with a yellow box.

I have found that if you use the full res image treated with AI Clear and hit it with a couple of passes of the Despeckle filter in PS, and then use some gentle deconvolution to recover the original sharpness of the image, you get a decent result.

kirk

plugsnpixels · « **Reply #75 on:** November 02, 2018, 08:32:14 pm »

Thanks Kirk for the additional info, interesting. I received that extreme ISO file years ago when I had no RAW examples of my own.

At any rate, I fully expect Topaz to explore and address this since they are aware of your image and test results.

I'll let you know if I hear anything further.

kirkt · « **Reply #76 on:** November 02, 2018, 08:33:42 pm »

Quote from: plugsnpixels on November 02, 2018, 08:32:14 pm

Thanks Kirk for the additional info, interesting. I received that extreme ISO file years ago when I had no RAW examples of my own.

At any rate, I fully expect Topaz to explore and address this since they are aware of your image and test results.

I'll let you know if I hear anything further.

Thanks for taking the time to wander down this rabbit hole with me!

Kirk

plugsnpixels · « **Reply #77 on:** November 02, 2018, 09:15:36 pm »

No problem, it's a legit inquiry!

Zen8 · « **Reply #78 on:** November 10, 2018, 10:07:56 am »

There was a Topaz Studio update. It didn't say what it was but there is no improvement yet.

plugsnpixels · « **Reply #79 on:** November 10, 2018, 12:54:51 pm »

Zen8, the changelog is this:

"Update V1.13.0 has the following changes:
 
New Features:
- We added GPU processing to A.I. Remix
- We added Ownership and Resource synchronization
 
GUI Modifications:
- none
 
Bug Fixes:
- We fixed a problem where the user interface would flicker for Windows 10 users on Intel 5-6 series cards
- We fixed a problem where some users on MacOS were getting crashing when using A.I. Clear after updating
- We fixed a problem where some users were experiencing crashes when using Impression"

See my blog post for coverage of the AI ReMix update.

Author Topic: Topaz AI Clear adjustment update (>3x faster) (Read 12916 times)