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Author Topic: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions  (Read 7565 times)

f8lee

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C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« on: April 09, 2015, 08:43:29 pm »

Well, since Apple's Photos really does suck (except for the selfie-obsessed, for whom it will be wonderful no doubt), I have begun to investigate C1 v8 as the alternative (as I am no fan of Adobe). I've watched some videos, but none address some basic concepts when comparing and contrasting the two, so allow me to ask in an attempt to wrap my head around these ideas (and thank anyone who answers in advance for their help and patience):

1) Catalogs and Sessions as compared to Aperture's Projects - which is what? More to the point, will C1 enable me to continue my current practice - I have various projects set up in Aperture that span years. For instance, Malibu Beach or Descanso Gardens (a botanical garden in SoCal). I visit Descanso every month or so; each time I rename the files with a shoot-date-Descanso-NNN scheme and load them in a folder for the current year and month, then import them into Aperture as referenced files. As a result, my Descanso project has hundreds of shots from 2008 to last month, where the originals are located in a dozen or more folders on the external drive. Does C1's catalog allow me to do the same thing (and if I import will all this hold together the same way)?

   1.1) I gather the way to handle an event I might shoot (a party, corporate event, whatever) might be best handled by importing into a session (since this is a one-time kind of thing) - would that be correct?

   1.2) With Aperture, I see all my projects in the Library view, and can select the Project "Descanso" or "2014-Company-XMas" or whatever to view the images therein. It looks to me that C1 will allow me to select among the dozens of Catalogs I will have via a drop-menu, but it won't display a listing of everything at once, correct?

   1.3) Aperture allows you to reject an image or images and eventually send them (versions and referenced files) to the Mac OS X trash for elimination. Does C1 do the same thing?

2) Does C1 "play well" with DxO? Depending on the lens used, I often use DxO on the NEF files I shoot to make corrections en masse and generate either JPEG or TIFF files. I import these into Aperture (with RAW+ JPEG as pairs, JPEG as master, for that matter). How can I continue this, if at all, with C1?

3) In general, does C1 allow that "import as pairs" concept at all? Or is it really designed to take just the RAW files and work its magic accordingly (which would seem to make DxO out of step)?

4) Another external program I use is PortraitProfessional - if I import RAW files into C1 (as a referenced catalog) and then open PortraitProfessional and work on some of those RAW files directly, creating TIFFs as output, would I then import the TIFF versions into C1's catalog as a way of keeping track?

The UI and tools themselves all seem to be things I can get used to, but these catalog and workflow related things are areas I have not seen compared anyplace thus far, so thanks to anyone who can help clear it up.
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David Mantripp

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 04:27:20 pm »

Without going into too much detail, I've migrated a 60,000 image Aperture library in C1-8, and after some general tidying up I have more or less replicated my Aperture setup. I am very familiar with MediaPro, so that helps with the Catalog concepts. C1 is not as powerful as Aperture on the DAM side, but it isn't far off, and it is very configurable. It doesn't totally decouple from the file system like Aperture, but it does certainly allow you to create collections similar to Projects and Albums. It has an almost identical Smart Catalog/Album feature. It is a bit slower than Aperture, but has speeded up over time for me, I assume as background tasks complete. Keywording and keyword management is unfortunately much weaker than Aperture, but then again Aperture was sensational in that respect. Also, the equivalent to Stacks is much less powerful, and obviously features like Lightables and Books are absent. But there's also a bunch of stuff which Aperture doesn't have, snd also helpful and responsive user support. And it's produced by a company 100% focused on photography, unlike the competition.

So, with some caveats, speaking as a heavy Aperture user, I'd say you transition to C1 without losing too much, provided you decicate a little time to climbing the learning curve.
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f8lee

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 07:30:46 pm »

Thank you for your reply - am I understanding correctly, then, that you have both C1 and Media Pro in your setup, with the latter to handle organizational stuff?
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ppmax2

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2015, 11:26:50 pm »

Fwiw, read the manual about the differences between catalogs and sessions. Of course, I didn't RTFM, and ended up accidentally permanently deleting several files because the behavior of the "trash" is different between catalogs and sessions.

C1 renders canon raw beautifully, and there is a lot to like about the software...but I'm not migrating my 50k aperture library to C1... Too many sharp corners for me regarding library management. Importing images is slow as molasses, whereas Aperture flies.

Hth,
Pp
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f8lee

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2015, 11:43:33 pm »

Fwiw, read the manual about the differences between catalogs and sessions. Of course, I didn't RTFM, and ended up accidentally permanently deleting several files because the behavior of the "trash" is different between catalogs and sessions.

C1 renders canon raw beautifully, and there is a lot to like about the software...but I'm not migrating my 50k aperture library to C1... Too many sharp corners for me regarding library management. Importing images is slow as molasses, whereas Aperture flies.

Hth,
Pp

Thanks, I did watch the videos (would the new acronym be "WTFV"?) and get the difference; it seems Sessions are geared towards tethered use, about which I do not care.

As it happens, my library did port over completely (about 400 images could not be found) in only a few hours. Yet the speed for C1 to open is still 30-60 seconds, which, according to the videos I've watched, is a big improvement over v7. I know C1's raw rendering is usually considered better than most, but Aperture (and, I hope LR) won't be that much worse while offering what seem to be far superior DAM capabilities.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2015, 09:30:19 am »

Thanks, I did watch the videos (would the new acronym be "WTFV"?) and get the difference; it seems Sessions are geared towards tethered use, about which I do not care.

This is simply not correct. Sessions are about modularity; about each project/gig/collection living on it's own, separate from any master catalog or separate database. It greatly improves portability and collaboration and encourages a project-based workflow. Because you're specifically instructing the software to only worry about a particular project at a time the load times, operational durations, and other overhead are all reduced.

In our Capture One Masters Program we step through a variety of session-based workflows, and compare/contrast to a catalog workflow. It is true that tethering often/usually calls for a session workflow (while shooting an advertisement for Nike you don't want the software to worry about or display or even make reference to the five campaigns you shot last year for Adidas). But that is only one particular use case that calls for a session workflow.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 09:31:51 am by Doug Peterson »
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mgrayson

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2015, 12:17:11 pm »

FWIW, I always import images into a session - either a new one, or one containing recent related work. It's easy to import to subfolders for finer subdivision.

Once a session is unlikely to grow, I import it into a general catalog for global search/keyword/filtering.

Sessions contain tens to a few hundred images. My catalogs have thousands. I've had no stability issues at all with catalogs in recent versions.

Best,

Matt
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f8lee

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2015, 12:38:41 pm »

FWIW, I always import images into a session - either a new one, or one containing recent related work. It's easy to import to subfolders for finer subdivision.

Once a session is unlikely to grow, I import it into a general catalog for global search/keyword/filtering.

Sessions contain tens to a few hundred images. My catalogs have thousands. I've had no stability issues at all with catalogs in recent versions.

Best,

Matt

So, would that imply that the analogy to Aperture is that a catalog in C1 is like the entire library in Aperture, and a session in C1 is more akin to a project? If so, then since I have some Aperture projects that span multiple years (returning to the same botanical garden, for instance, and putting everything into a single project designated "garden" or whatever) what I would have to do is import each visit into the same "garden" session, and that plus all my other sessions would be contained in one large catalog in C1?

And this would also mean that keyboarding would apply across all sessions since I might have the keyboard "rose" in multiple sessions (projects in Aperture today)?

If so, all may not be lost... though apparently I'll have to do a lot of rejiggering in C1 to get everything into a single catalog and break out what I used to call Projects into Sessions.

Assuming I am clear on the concepts. Thank you for helping me grok this stuff.
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mgrayson

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2015, 01:50:40 pm »

There is no real Aperture analogy for the Session, unless you use small independent Aperture Libraries. There are also Projects and Album analogs in the C1 Catalog.

I was quite happy using Aperture Projects the way I now use C1 Sessions. When I import the Session into the C1 Catalog, it becomes a "Project" in the Catalog. But I can then move and rearrange the Projects, and create Albums as I wish.

C1 is not Aperture, but I'm finding it easy to adapt MOST of the way I handled the DAM side.

--Matt
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David Grover / Capture One

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2015, 03:54:38 pm »

So, would that imply that the analogy to Aperture is that a catalog in C1 is like the entire library in Aperture, and a session in C1 is more akin to a project? If so, then since I have some Aperture projects that span multiple years (returning to the same botanical garden, for instance, and putting everything into a single project designated "garden" or whatever) what I would have to do is import each visit into the same "garden" session, and that plus all my other sessions would be contained in one large catalog in C1?

And this would also mean that keyboarding would apply across all sessions since I might have the keyboard "rose" in multiple sessions (projects in Aperture today)?

If so, all may not be lost... though apparently I'll have to do a lot of rejiggering in C1 to get everything into a single catalog and break out what I used to call Projects into Sessions.

Assuming I am clear on the concepts. Thank you for helping me grok this stuff.

Hi Lee,

Not quite right.

A Catalog and a Session are two completely different ways of file management.  A Session is not Part of a catalog and vice versa.

Quite, simply what you need to do is create a Capture One Catalog and break out your Projects..... into wait for it... Projects!  ;)

Projects is an organisational item in the User Collections area which will do exactly what you need it to do.

David

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f8lee

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2015, 05:56:27 pm »

Hi Lee,

Not quite right.

A Catalog and a Session are two completely different ways of file management.  A Session is not Part of a catalog and vice versa.

Quite, simply what you need to do is create a Capture One Catalog and break out your Projects..... into wait for it... Projects!  ;)

Projects is an organisational item in the User Collections area which will do exactly what you need it to do.

David




Well, while I thank you for the thought, I confess to being befuddled as to how exactly to break anything out into projects...

I imported my Aperture library, and the entire library appears under User Collections, with all of what were my Aperture projects showing up as what I guess are collections - the icon for each is a "file box". Within each collection are the images that were in the Aperture Projects, and the filters section beneath displays whatever is in that collection... thus my conundrum.

Anyway, nowhere do I see how to create a "Project" - I can make new albums and new smart albums, but nothing seems to be named "Project" - so is it the Album hierarchical later I need to use?

In other words, I would have a single Collection with 50 (or whatever) 'albums' in it, each album representing what I call a project in Aperture? Or am I completely missing where one defines a "project" in C1?
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David Grover / Capture One

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Re: C1 from Aperture - high level conceptual questions
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2015, 01:59:44 pm »

Does this help?  (See Image)

Hierarchy is like so...

Project>Albums and or Smart Albums.

Can I suggest you watch this...

https://youtu.be/3BJL_tFciQk

and or this...

https://youtu.be/Uvk-oZB-WJ4

David


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David Grover
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