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Author Topic: An Old Wreck  (Read 4032 times)

Tony Jay

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An Old Wreck
« on: March 24, 2015, 09:12:16 pm »

Found this old Ford Fairlane wrecked and burnt out on the Mary River floodplain.
Please tell me what you think.
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brandtb

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2015, 08:52:49 am »

wonderful shot...not 100% with the processing on this...little too hot the lower left area...but really great scene
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Bob_B

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2015, 08:58:38 am »

Great capture! I agree with brandtb about the lower left, but it doesn't detract from this great photo.
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seamus finn

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2015, 07:28:58 am »

Yes, great shot. Out of curiosity, I'd love to see a colour version.
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stamper

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2015, 08:03:40 am »

Cracking shot and I wouldn't change anything. Processing fine. I just wonder if some people are deliberately looking for faults in corners? :-X

stamper

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2015, 08:05:15 am »

We recognize wrecked cars immediately. Next-time it might be interesting to try and hide the outline using tree trunks and shadows.

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David Eckels

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2015, 09:10:02 am »

First, I like this shot and the subject is very cool. Since it is in User Critiques though, IMHO, I agree with Brandt, and further, I would crop in from the lower left corner keeping the same aspect ratio. There is nothing of interest in that portion of the frame to my eye and I seem to like a symmetrical crop relative to the front bumper. I'd even consider going to a ~1x2 AR to keep it really tight. Also, the tones in the car blend too much into the background and thus it doesn't "come forward" to my eye. This might be one of those shots where a color or split toning process could really pop that car, FWIW. Of course, in the end, it's personal choice. For me, this is a subject that would be worth exploring from a number of vantage points, somewhat along the lines that Isaac mentions. Hope this is helpful.

Tony Jay

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2015, 09:32:46 am »

First, I like this shot and the subject is very cool. Since it is in User Critiques though, IMHO, I agree with Brandt, and further, I would crop in from the lower left corner keeping the same aspect ratio. There is nothing of interest in that portion of the frame to my eye and I seem to like a symmetrical crop relative to the front bumper. I'd even consider going to a ~1x2 AR to keep it really tight. Also, the tones in the car blend too much into the background and thus it doesn't "come forward" to my eye. This might be one of those shots where a color or split toning process could really pop that car, FWIW. Of course, in the end, it's personal choice. For me, this is a subject that would be worth exploring from a number of vantage points, somewhat along the lines that Isaac mentions. Hope this is helpful.
Hi David - very interesting critique.
I will look at different crops and I also think that your comments about split toning might be useful to explore.
As for different vantage points I definitely took a lot of images that day from a lot of different perspectives.
However, it was my boots on the ground that day, and I can tell you that with a cloudless sky and unbelievably strong mid-afternoon tropical sunshine and the thickness of the tropical monsoon forest surrounding this vehicle certain perspectives did not make for a worthwhile shot.
Nonetheless, on reflection I think I could have got a lot lower than I actually did.
At the end of the day this particular image appeared, to me at least, to be the best of the lot.

Nonetheless, I want exactly this kind of critique - honest and direct - that people are so kindly giving because it makes me consider aspects that I probably would not think of left to my own devices.

Tony Jay
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stamper

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2015, 09:35:31 am »

First, I like this shot and the subject is very cool. Since it is in User Critiques though, IMHO, I agree with Brandt, and further, I would crop in from the lower left corner keeping the same aspect ratio. There is nothing of interest in that portion of the frame to my eye and I seem to like a symmetrical crop relative to the front bumper. I'd even consider going to a ~1x2 AR to keep it really tight. Also, the tones in the car blend too much into the background and thus it doesn't "come forward" to my eye. This might be one of those shots where a color or split toning process could really pop that car, FWIW. Of course, in the end, it's personal choice. For me, this is a subject that would be worth exploring from a number of vantage points, somewhat along the lines that Isaac mentions. Hope this is helpful.

Tony I apologise for appearing to hijack your thread but I feel that a line between critique and  "imposing a view" has been crossed? You presented an image for critique but it seems that one or two members are suggesting that a different image should have been posted that is radically different from your vision as shot and presented? :'(

BobDavid

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2015, 09:55:19 am »

great photo, great processing, nice moody picture
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stamper

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2015, 10:15:25 am »

Hi David - very interesting critique.
I will look at different crops and I also think that your comments about split toning might be useful to explore.
As for different vantage points I definitely took a lot of images that day from a lot of different perspectives.
However, it was my boots on the ground that day, and I can tell you that with a cloudless sky and unbelievably strong mid-afternoon tropical sunshine and the thickness of the tropical monsoon forest surrounding this vehicle certain perspectives did not make for a worthwhile shot.
Nonetheless, on reflection I think I could have got a lot lower than I actually did.
At the end of the day this particular image appeared, to me at least, to be the best of the lot.

Nonetheless, I want exactly this kind of critique - honest and direct - that people are so kindly giving because it makes me consider aspects that I probably would not think of left to my own devices.

Tony Jay

Tony when you shot the image of the old wreck did it enter your mind to shoot it in a way that others might shoot the image or did you decide to use your brain and experience - you are obviously an experienced photographer - to frame the shot? Personally I never try to think what others would do mainly because I am trying to capture my "vision" and not anyone else's "vision". I am not advocating that improvements and advice aren't needed but at the end of the day it is your image and the way you portray it gives you the greatest satisfaction and pleasure. If later someone decides they don't like it is their prerogative but suggestions that include radical changes as to how you should/shouldn't have done are dubious, especially if someone whose output isn't the best or non existent? You can't please all of the people all of the time and it is imo futile to try?

stamper

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2015, 10:21:21 am »

We recognize wrecked cars immediately. Next-time it might be interesting to try and hide the outline using tree trunks and shadows.

If there aren't any other tree trunks around then how do you accomplish this? I am sure if there had been and they obscured the wreck - the focal point - then there would have been criticism about not seeing the wreck clearly. At the end of the day you capture what is there and not what is in your imagination?

RSL

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2015, 10:31:35 am »

Ah yes, the croppers are at it again. I agree with Stamper. It's your shot, Tony, not someone else's shot. The aspect ratio is 2 x 3, which is standard 35mm stuff, but that doesn't tell me whether or not the frame has been cropped. If so, I'd wonder why, since it's shown at the aspect ratio of the camera, why not frame it on the camera -- HCB style -- and leave it alone. I have a feeling that's what you did.

I like it very much. Used to do a lot of this kind of thing myself, and I still can't pass up an old, rusted, abandoned vehicle.

armand

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2015, 11:42:30 am »

I think the processing is quite good with that harsh light (or maybe you chose this postprocessing because of the harsh light). If it happens to be close to you a repeat visit in a different moment of the day might be worth it.

David Eckels

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2015, 01:05:37 pm »

In my defense, Tony wanted a critique, and I gave him my opinion with intent to help make the image better, but I also think I was clear that it was only my opinion and was not necessarily his, even though I did not state it explicitly. Same for cropping: I don't have the same sensitivities as Russ, nor the same background obviously in street. Cropping in camera or in post, to me, depends on the image. Sometimes I find that if I am too connected to the subject through the viewfinder rather than looking in the VF, my in camera composition comes up short and it is only in post that I can assemble enough objectivity to define my vision better by cropping, YMMV. Your idea, Tony, of coming in lower (and perhaps tighter to accommodate what I was trying to get at) would work well, I think. As for the other comments (all reasonable BTW in my view), I cannot know what is in the mind of the photographer; I can only react to what I see. If an image is in User Critiques, I assume helpful criticism is being sought; that's why I post here. Stamper, obviously you didn't care for my critique or my ideas; both are different BTW, but I find it curious this unspoken rule about "don't mess with the photog's vision" (to paraphrase); why else post in User Critiques? We all get stymied by an image and profit from others' analyses at times. I may be inferring this, so forgive me if I have misunderstood your comments. I also do not post my best or most satisfying (to me) images here in UC, only the ones I truly want feedback on; if I am happy with it and I want to post it, I will put it elsewhere. Tony did not ask for specific advice about cropping or tonality or perspective, he asked what I thought. So I gave him what I could, just as you do so often and helpfully.

Perhaps there is another forum, thread, or discussion regarding whether it absolutely positively has to be gotten right in camera or not. Not trying to put words in anyone's mouth and did not mean to turn attention away from Tony's OP.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2015, 01:34:31 pm »

... I just wonder if some people are deliberately looking for faults in corners? :-X

Do not limit me to corners, Stamper, I look for faults everywhere ;)

For instance, I find faults in your criticism of our critiques.

Speaking about corners, I do have one in mind in particular: the lower left, and not just for reasons Brandt mentioned. There is a bright twig there, standing almost parallel with the image edge, and I find it distracting.

Also, since this is a b&w conversion, we do not know the color of the car (rusty?), but perhaps a different filtering might make the car lighter and foliage and grass darker (orange filter?). That would put the emphasis on the car, not the surrounding.

Tony Jay

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2015, 07:28:14 pm »

Gentlemen, I am very pleased that these images have excited some debate and interest.
Nothing that I have read, IMHO anyway, requires an apology.

Even if some of the opinions expressed cannot change the image, although some certainly could, I am finding the pinpointing of the various merits and demerits of my images highly instructive and helpful, particularly with a forward looking bias.

I think that I am slowly developing a style but there is much that is still in evolution. I have good, but growing skills with a camera, and good, but growing skills, in post-processing. Probably the area that needs the most attention is that slippery area of artistic intent - howsoever defined. Although I am an individual who has always ploughed his own furrow I have always very much enjoyed viewing the images of others for ideas and also enjoy the suggestions of others because the points raised may not only help the image in question but also give me ideas to implement when next I shoot.
Clearly, situational practicalities and my intent at the time, will modify how I shoot. Since I very rarely shoot anywhere except outdoors almost everything is fluid and cannot be predetermined in an absolute sense no matter what ideas one has or what equipment is at one's disposal.

So, thanks for participating and helping me.

Tony Jay
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stamper

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2015, 04:23:33 am »

Do not limit me to corners, Stamper, I look for faults everywhere ;)

For instance, I find faults in your criticism of our critiques.

Speaking about corners, I do have one in mind in particular: the lower left, and not just for reasons Brandt mentioned. There is a bright twig there, standing almost parallel with the image edge, and I find it distracting.

Also, since this is a b&w conversion, we do not know the color of the car (rusty?), but perhaps a different filtering might make the car lighter and foliage and grass darker (orange filter?). That would put the emphasis on the car, not the surrounding.

If you find the twig distracting then I think you are possibly being hypersensitive? Looking for a "perfect" image is imo futile. Is it not better to ignore such small distractions if the image is overall a very good one - which I believe this one is - and give it praise without finding fault? It is also interesting that you want to highlight the wreck as opposed to the surroundings when another poster suggests looking for branches to possibly cover it. Both of you are entitled to your opinions but Tony must wonder which opinion carries the most merit. The bottom line for me is that some posters seem to take great delight in finding faults rather than finding worthwhile good points. I don't see any praise in your above comments. :(

stamper

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2015, 04:26:15 am »

Gentlemen, I am very pleased that these images have excited some debate and interest.
Nothing that I have read, IMHO anyway, requires an apology.

Even if some of the opinions expressed cannot change the image, although some certainly could, I am finding the pinpointing of the various merits and demerits of my images highly instructive and helpful, particularly with a forward looking bias.

I think that I am slowly developing a style but there is much that is still in evolution. I have good, but growing skills with a camera, and good, but growing skills, in post-processing. Probably the area that needs the most attention is that slippery area of artistic intent - howsoever defined. Although I am an individual who has always ploughed his own furrow I have always very much enjoyed viewing the images of others for ideas and also enjoy the suggestions of others because the points raised may not only help the image in question but also give me ideas to implement when next I shoot.
Clearly, situational practicalities and my intent at the time, will modify how I shoot. Since I very rarely shoot anywhere except outdoors almost everything is fluid and cannot be predetermined in an absolute sense no matter what ideas one has or what equipment is at one's disposal.

So, thanks for participating and helping me.

Tony Jay

Tony you summed it up nicely. :)

stamper

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Re: An Old Wreck
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2015, 04:39:09 am »

Slobodan with respect to you comment

Also, since this is a b&w conversion, we do not know the color of the car (rusty?), but perhaps a different filtering might make the car lighter and foliage and grass darker (orange filter?). That would put the emphasis on the car, not the surrounding.

I have had another close look at the image and I can't see how the car can be separated even more from the surrounding? If the shrubbery was in the background then possibly a defocus would help, but it isn't. Dodging and burning would be tedious and selective clarity would also be tedious. Even if the above were possible then what what you are proposing would be very different from Tony's intent. I would be interested in how you could achieve it and more importantly would it "improve" the image or make it just like you would have done if you had been there, and not Tony.
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