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Author Topic: What color was the dress?  (Read 14853 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2015, 06:28:50 pm »

So you and he can't provide ME that experience? Telling...

Yes, Andrew, for a change you are right this time. Neither I nor Elliot nor anyone else at this moment can provide you THAT experience for a simple reason: you've come late to the party. You've already seen several versions of the image, some color corrected, some exposure corrected, some single, some in double or triple comparisons. Your perception at this moment is forever polluted by what you've seen and there is no way you can UNsee it now. Seriously. And anyone else who has not seen what I saw (and those in Elliot's BBC example), i.e., the original, single image, that I (and others) saw for the first time in our lives, can not possibly understand what the fuss is about now.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2015, 06:37:01 pm »

... Meanwhile, the somewhat famous Adelson optical illusion has been consistent among the hundreds of workshop precipitants I've shown it to over the years. No one seeing for the first time have even reported NOT saying that A and B appear different prior to showing the 'proof' they are in fact the same color. The numbers have never been different either.

http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/adelson/checkershadow_illusion.html

Andrew, I've been aware of the checker shadow illusion for quite some time. And yes, you are right: "No one seeing for the first time have even reported NOT saying that A and B appear different." That is why this dress "thing" (perhaps calling it "illusion" is not entirely correct) is so fascinating, because different people do see it differently. Another difference... for instance, there is this famous and old black & white illusion, one where some people see a black vase in the middle, and some other people see two white portraits on the sides. However, after a while, or if pointed out, people will eventually recognize the other pattern. Not in the case of the dress: even after realizing that their friends see, say, black/blue, the other side will fight to death that it is white/gold.

digitaldog

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2015, 07:00:11 pm »

That is why this dress "thing" (perhaps calling it "illusion" is not entirely correct) is so fascinating, because different people do see it differently.
I don't find it fascinating because there all kinds of optical illusions that have exhibited this 'effect' (if it is even real with the dress, I'm not at all convinced) for years. That some here haven't see this before and find this silly dress anything new under the umbrella of color is a bit fascinating and a bit sad. For teenage girls that follow TS, I can see how enlightening and exciting this all must be. 

http://www.funzug.com/index.php/unusual-things/great-optical-illusions-magic.html
http://www.planetperplex.com/en/subcategory/optical-illusions/color-illusions/l/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/27/12-fascinating-optical-illusions-show-how-color-can-trick-the-eye/
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Wayne Fox

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2015, 07:01:18 pm »

This is how it strarted (well, in my case at least): my teenage daughter comes to me with her friend and they show me a single image of the dress on one phone and ask me what I see. I say black and blue. My daughter agrees, but her friend is in shock as she swears she sees it as white and gold. That is what it is about.
Similar for me. My son in law ask me last night what color I saw which was brownish black and a muddy blue. When his wife said she saw white and gold I was surprised. The paradox to me was white and gold seem like light colors. He passed the phone around and 5 saw it black and blue, 3 saw white and gold. And none of us could see the other version even though we tried so it wasn't about being an optical illusion. Normally I wouldn't think much of it, but the difference between blue and black vs white and gold seems so extreme. Somehow the visual response or interpretation of what was being seen was involved. But everyone looked at the same device and image.  
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digitaldog

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2015, 07:06:27 pm »

Your perception at this moment is forever polluted by what you've seen and there is no way you can UNsee it now.
Sorry, I'm not buying that. That isn't the case with the Adelson example (and other's I've just posted), A and B always look visually different and I know the trick! As do you. The same is true for how you and I adapt to white. We can't turn that off. You may view one paper under an illuminant then another and tell us they appear the same color, but you can't not see a difference (when it does exist) when you view the two at the same time.
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digitaldog

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2015, 07:08:13 pm »

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!
That topic was funnier when done by Monty Python and more interesting when not.  ;D
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MarkM

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2015, 07:41:30 pm »

I don't find it fascinating because there all kinds of optical illusions that have exhibited this 'effect' (if it is even real with the dress, I'm not at all convinced)

I'm not sure what mean by 'not convinced.' Do you think people are lying about what they are seeing? I can't see the image as anything other then washed out black and blue, but clearly some people do. That this isn't like other optical illusions where the illusion demonstrates perceptual conflicts that are consistent from person to person is part, if not most, of the fascination. I've spent quite a bit of time with the color perception literature, and I can't think of another example where people consistently report such dramatically different color perceptions of the same stimulus. That's why this is interesting, at least to me.
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hugowolf

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2015, 07:48:53 pm »

The dress is blue and black, opinions of the colors in the image may differ, but the dress itself was blue and black.

Brian A
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digitaldog

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2015, 08:00:52 pm »

I'm not sure what mean by 'not convinced.' Do you think people are lying about what they are seeing?
I have no idea what they are seeing. I've seen so many totally different images of the dress, obviously using different numeric values, due to who knows what manipulations.
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MarkM

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2015, 08:06:29 pm »

I have no idea what they are seeing. I've seen so many totally different images of the dress, obviously using different numeric values, due to who knows what manipulations.

Most reports I've seen including the report from Wayne above, and the BBC video posted above, involve people looking at the same image on the same device. That's what all the fuss is about. That there are now a bunch of variations of the image floating around is somewhat beside the point.
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digitaldog

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2015, 08:21:52 pm »

Mark, as I said, I have no idea what these people were shown or are seeing. I've never said anyone is lying or that differing people might perceive something different. In my very first post about this dress, I said: Optical Illusions as the Nightly News suggested? A group of awful, different, un-color managed images?
I also wrote, and proven I think: I've seen several different posts that all appear different due to what has to be processing and mishandling of the data and probably lots of other factors.
I never said this isn't some kind of optical effect or illusion. I said it's a really stupid discussion among a group outside of teenage girls and maybe others who maybe never knew optical illusions existed and a surprise that this group would find it at all worthy. I also wrote: I'm not saying optical illusions do not exist, JUST THE OPPOSITE by providing them over the years and again today. I'm stating that every attempt to show this dress image is done with differing images that look different because THEY ARE DIFFERENT. That makes evaluating what's going on here more difficult and suspicious.

It's like the one web site that showed the dress with different white balance settings to illustrate the images appear different. DUH! This is news to some on LuLa?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 08:24:24 pm by digitaldog »
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elliot_n

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2015, 08:40:58 pm »

Why not explain to us stupid girls what's going on?
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digitaldog

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2015, 08:46:03 pm »

Quote
Why not explain to us stupid girls what's going on?
Some girls are too stupid to read and comprehend, the answer to that question was stated in post #48 and 50.  ;D
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 08:48:59 pm by digitaldog »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2015, 08:49:56 pm »

... a surprise that this group would find it at all worthy...

Why it is worthy to some in this group is well explained by Mark:

... That this isn't like other optical illusions where the illusion demonstrates perceptual conflicts that are consistent from person to person is part, if not most, of the fascination. I've spent quite a bit of time with the color perception literature, and I can't think of another example where people consistently report such dramatically different color perceptions of the same stimulus. That's why this is interesting, at least to me.

digitaldog

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2015, 08:52:51 pm »

Mark's point is valid Slobodan which is why extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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elliot_n

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2015, 08:56:46 pm »

Some girls are too stupid to read and comprehend, the answer to that question was stated in post #48 and 50.  ;D

Ok. Let me help you. They're looking at this image in a colour managed browser:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-31662317

Some people see a blue/black dress, others see a white/gold dress.

Why?
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digitaldog

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2015, 09:01:45 pm »

Some people see a blue/black dress, others see a white/gold dress.
Not blue/green? Because I just showed THIS link you provided (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-31662317) to my wife and she said green, not black. And yes, on a color managed browser! I agree, the upper right side of the 'black' dress has a greenish appearing cast.
Quote
Why?
I replied to that question 3 times.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 09:04:40 pm by digitaldog »
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elliot_n

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2015, 09:05:17 pm »

No, green is not an option.
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digitaldog

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2015, 09:08:52 pm »

No, green is not an option.
I see, so what someone else perceives of the site you just posted has to fall into the colors sets you demand?
I'm simply reporting what she said she saw. Just like those reporters. I didn't ask anything other than "What colors do you see" and her answer was green and black.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 09:36:42 pm by digitaldog »
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elliot_n

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Re: What color was the dress?
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2015, 09:14:13 pm »

I see, so what someone else perceives of the site you just posted has to fall into the colors sets you demand?
I'm simply reporting what she said she saw. Just like those reporters. I didn't ask here anything other than "What colors do you see" and her answer was green and black.


Ok, she can have green. It's a literalist response which probably comes from being married to a colour geek.

The majority of people will see either a blue/black dress or a white/gold dress.

That's what I'm asking you to explain.
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