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Author Topic: BW Icc Profiles using X-Rrite Eye 1 Pro2  (Read 3365 times)

deanwork

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BW Icc Profiles using X-Rrite Eye 1 Pro2
« on: February 08, 2015, 08:35:56 am »

I want to try making an icc profile with X-rite Eye1 Pro 2 and print monochrome prints using an rgb or srgb color space.

Does anyone know which patch set is the smoothest for this? How many gray patches in the chart should be used and how many total patches? I want to compare this to what I'm seeing in True Black and White, which seems excellent for my Canon, but for doing subtle color toning and matching pre-existing prints the rgb icc profile approach may be better in that you can accurately soft proof it.

John
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: BW Icc Profiles using X-Rrite Eye 1 Pro2
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 10:38:50 am »

John,

Should we ask Bruce Lindbloom to create a dedicated color space for that purpose? One that just encapsulates Lab a b values 10 to -10 (enough for most papers and B&W styles) and with a 2.2 Gamma. 16 bit conversion possible. I wonder whether the straight hue conversion path of his Best color space has any advantage in this near greyscale printing. Actually it would be nicer to have Absolute Color rendering but as I understand it not all color engines do AC under the hood. However Absolute Color rendering does not know BPC which is necessary.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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datro

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Re: BW Icc Profiles using X-Rrite Eye 1 Pro2
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 11:05:44 am »

I'm currently using a 2033 patch target in i1Profiler to make profiles for this purpose (printing toned or split-toned B&W images using a RGB color space).  The 2033 patch target includes a 50-step grayscale ramp that improves gray balance for the profiles.  On my 7900 printer I'm getting pretty good results so far on Canson Platine Fibre Rag and Rag Photographique, but I'm still experimenting.  There was a thread here on LuLa a while back (can't seem to find it right now) regarding the optimal patch target for overall gray balance and 2033 was the consensus as the sweet spot.  There was also some discussion regarding the 2nd-pass "optimization" option in i1Profiler to improve gray balance, but I haven't ventured there yet.

Dave
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Some Guy

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Re: BW Icc Profiles using X-Rrite Eye 1 Pro2
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2015, 12:41:13 pm »

There is some discussion going on now in the Yahoo! QTR forum on linearization.  Seems the QTR maker Roy Harrington and Jon Cone differ on what is linear.  Maybe K7 is different than using 3-4 blacks and an RGB space.  Roy seems to like the "perception" approach.

When I played with altering the curves, I could alter the shadows for more detail and keep the highlights lighter without making them go into middle tones so fast, somewhat like the S-curve in old darkroom work.  Somehow the current thought is a straight line in digital, but it really depends on what you like and the inks and paper you use too.

I also like staying with a RGB space to add a tint to some shadows or highlights.  Setting it to a gamma 2.2 in B&W seems to be limiting for any subsequent toning short of using a toned B&W inkset like K7.  Sometimes I think we get too hung up in the perfection and exactness of making it linear with 50-256 steps and really isn't needed and 21 would suffice for a print. God help me if Ansel Adams came up with some 21 step Zone System.

Imho of course.

SG
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howardm

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Re: BW Icc Profiles using X-Rrite Eye 1 Pro2
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2015, 01:54:49 pm »

this guy has a number of optimization .cxf patch sets,

http://www.russellcottrell.com/photo/optimization/index.html

you might be interested in the Lab171 or the huge 25xx sets.

deanwork

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Re: BW Icc Profiles using X-Rrite Eye 1 Pro2
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2015, 08:40:53 pm »

Right,  thank you, that is the one I was thinking about the 2033 including the 50 gray steps. I'm going to try this out this week and compare with my linearized TBW approach that is grayscale and not using any color inks for a great clean neutral, but a little trial and error for toned monochrome. I"m also going to try it on the HP with srgb.

john




I'm currently using a 2033 patch target in i1Profiler to make profiles for this purpose (printing toned or split-toned B&W images using a RGB color space).  The 2033 patch target includes a 50-step grayscale ramp that improves gray balance for the profiles.  On my 7900 printer I'm getting pretty good results so far on Canson Platine Fibre Rag and Rag Photographique, but I'm still experimenting.  There was a thread here on LuLa a while back (can't seem to find it right now) regarding the optimal patch target for overall gray balance and 2033 was the consensus as the sweet spot.  There was also some discussion regarding the 2nd-pass "optimization" option in i1Profiler to improve gray balance, but I haven't ventured there yet.

Dave
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