Epson 3880 and Cone inks issues

[unesco]

[9 Feb 2015 - modification: after some talks and analysis made, I have to admit that it looks like cartriges I bought did not contained ConeColor Pro ink but probably other liquids. They were sold under Solution Premium name in refurbished Epson carts however distributor said they contained Cone pigment ink for 3880. Sorry for being imprecise.]

Hi all,
It is my first post on this forum :-).

I have purchased brand new 3880 and installed rebranded Cone inks instead of original ones after I have read tons of materials about that ink technology and enthusiastic opinions. After a few weeks of testings I am quite dissapointed with the quality especially on glossy and pearl media. Thus, I would like to ask about your experience with those inks and 3880 (or 3800).

1) I could read that inks are almost identical to OEMs, can be replaced on the fly with them. Not much profiling is needed. Results are far from that - prints must have custom profiles. First, I used the one from Cone's web for Epson PGPP - quality not much improved. Then, I have made customs for several types of paper and printouts are somehow better but far from ones I have seen from other printers. Colors have feeling of being dirty, blacks are not deep, the surface looks like opalizing.

2) On fine art media it is better but still far from I have seen on e.g. iPF6400/8300, Epson Claria inks and other printouts from commercial studios (e.g. 4900 etc).

3) I realize that this is pigment ink compared to Clarias, bronzing and gloss differential applies but I have also samples from 4900, 6400 being from another world when compared.

4) The gamut on glossy paper is smaller than 7900 achieves on Hahnemuhle matt!

5) On the plain paper, I wouldn't expect anything wibrant, but what I receive is grayish nothing...

6) When I printed BW photos, they were also quite "dirty", badly looking blacks.

7) There were some issues with printhead slant adjustment (probably CR), but it was fixed by authorised service.

My questions are as follows:
A) What are your experiences with Cone's inks?

B) Now, I consider to return to OEMs. Do I need to flush the lines with some liquid or can apply Epson carts directly? Cone's web says I can, but some Epson experts says it will decrease printhead lifespan. Any comments on that?

C) How many cleans do I need to do to be sure to use the inks form the new carts?

D) Does anyone have experience to use only one Black (PK or MK) to avoid switching for all types of media (glossy, matt etc)?

Any comments would be appreciated. I know this is decent printer, but now I feel like having something 2 decades old..
Best wishes.

[Jager]

I'm a happy fan of Cone's Piezography (black and white) inks.  Very high quality.

No experience with Cone's color inks, but from your description it's clear something is amiss.  Have you communicated with the inkjetmall folks about your issues?  If not, I'd certainly lodge a question there (http://www.inkjetmall.com/tech/forumdisplay.php?4-Technical-Support-Topics).  They are usually quite helpful.

Beyond that, Cone does strongly recommend that users with new printers first load their OEM inks and confirm that their printer is printing okay.  Sounds like you went straight to the Cone inks.  So, yes, first thing you'd want to do is to pull out the Cone carts and install the OEM inks.  It will take about 3-4 powercleans to clear the lines of their existing inks.  At that point you should be able to tell if your printer itself is working okay.

The fact that you had print head issues and had to have a service call on a brand new machine would give me pause. 

Good luck!  And welcome to the forum...

[unesco]

Thanks a lot for quick reply.
I am from Europe, and have bought inks through European distributor (Cone's exclusive, as they say), and rebranded. They adviced me ogthervise, to start directly from that inks, not OEMs, not to need to flush lines when carts exchanged. I made a mistake to listen to them.
As service said, probably during thansport there was some shock and prinhthead slant went wrong, even beyond the regulation limits. I was fixed.
Yes, I think exactly in the same way as you do. To install the OEMs and make sure all is ok with the printer.

[Some Guy]

Whenever I've switched inks, it takes a long time for the lines and sundry parts to clear of ink.  Sometimes an odd color spurt comes out of the blue too.  I wouldn't  discount a complete set of inks being used between change outs before things settle down enough for reliable and consistent printmaking.

I've read where the Cone Vivid Magenta seems less glossy than the Epson Vivid Magenta.  Could be for bronzing issues as to why it isn't as glossy too.  Don't really know.  I read where the Cone tech girl in their forum suggested PK black for both the MK and PK if one doesn't want to change inks.  I think she claimed the PK to have a deeper black L value than their MK.

Aside, I am still pondering archival inks as I don't think they really are, at least for 100 years.  We attended some monthly art walk where there are some photo studios and the photographers had their works in the windows.  A lot of stuff was badly faded even behind the store window and mounted in frames with glass.  Some stuff had to be recent due to the senior's jackets and new high school.  Probably 3-5 years old at most, but really faded in their frames to the point of almost washed out.  Most were 16x20 or more so I'd guess them to be with pigment inks as those are used in most large format printers, but if they were, it was pretty poor permanence for any claimed "archival pigment ink."  I had an old HP printer that claimed some long life prints but hanging on the wall it went green to yellow and faded out pretty well on canvas with about an hour of sunlight through the window a day shining on it.  Maybe 6 months before it got really bad.  Blacks were okay, but some colors took a severe hit.  Probably would have lasted longer if I kept it in a dark drawer forever.

SG

[unesco]

That's true that magenta is not that golossy as the other colours. I can clearly see it on test chart prints for profiling I did with Cone inks.
As for the blacks, the problem is with PK on non matt media, not MK.
To be precise, there was a problem with the printer, with printhead slant, but it was fixed (the whole printhead was repleaced). I doubt now the printer itself is a problem. I tried two version of driver, also printed with use of PrintFab instead of Epson driver.
Now thinking about using piezoflush to clean the lines before going back to OEMs.

[unesco]

CORRECTION: after some talks and analysis made, it looks like cartriges I bought did not contained ConeColor Pro ink but probably other liquids. They were sold under Solution Premium name in refurbished Epson carts - distributor said they contained Cone pigment ink for 3880, but the quality of prints says something different. Sorry for being imprecise in my initial post. My problem now is to determine what is inside and how to safely get rid of it... :-/