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Author Topic: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked  (Read 86336 times)

Paul2660

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2015, 08:20:37 am »

The whole CCD real iso range on MFD has been shrouded in some mystery over the years.  Does a CCD really have a gain, i.e if you increase the iso, does it really increase the gain of the CCD, like on a CMOS chip.  From what have  been able to ascertain, is that no, basically a CCD is a one level iso chip, and any increases are just metadata increases.  This changes on the IQ and P65+, with sensor plus  I am not sure what the CCD gain increases to, but it has to be somewhere in the iso 400 range, as the files are notably cleaner than their full frame equivalents albeit at a loss of 3/4 of the total resolution of the chip.

I was surprised when the 50MP CMOS came in at a base of iso100, as I would still prefer 50 base.

As to the iso 50 real base vs 100, I really don't know the answer.  I do "feel" from my shooting that at 50, with a IQ160 or 260, you do get a better performance in DR, especially in highlight recovery and a bit more in shadow recovery/noise.  CCD shooting is much tighter than with CMOS in that you have so much less slop in iso recovery.  You really have to be right on with the exposure, and the tech camera limitations due to Copal shutters doesn't help much.  (One reason I had hoped to see the Arca FS come in at a bit more reasonable price point). 

When I shoot in the field I often bracket iso ranges on my IQ260, 50, 100 and 200.  There are sometimes that a shot will be best at 50, others 100 and even some at 200. 

The data shared by Voidshatter is most interesting and I need to get out my DF and try a similar test.  I don't have raw digger, but just working in C1 should show some interesting results. 

Paul
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Ken R

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2015, 08:26:28 am »

Apparently the 50mp in the New Canon 5DS/R has no more dynamic range than the current 7D2 chip, that is, MUCH less than any of the Sony/Nikon chips. So while the 5DS/R have a lot of pixels, pixel quality is still (expected) well below most of the Medium Format Digital Backs / Cameras. Yes, even the older ones. This is of course pending testing. 
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Gel

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2015, 09:23:45 am »

I went to tell my 645z about the new Canon this morning but it seems he got word before I did and is still out partying.

ihv

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2015, 09:33:59 am »

I went to tell my 645z about the new Canon this morning but it seems he got word before I did and is still out partying.

Just had a look at the promo video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6KyWbns0ro#t=181 ) and couldn't understand why not a 645z?
Much better camera for the job - much better DR, crazily high ISOs compared to the 5Ds, better pixels too due to more light collecting area.
Even more funnily does 1080@60p which the Canon does not. Yes, little more costly but looking at the theoretical cost of the shoot a minor expense.

In short, I didn't see any strong supportive statements as to 'why'.

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AlterEgo

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2015, 09:41:43 am »

Apparently the 50mp in the New Canon 5DS/R has no more dynamic range than the current 7D2 chip,
may be not per one sensel... but making the same amount of mp (downsampling) from 50mp to whatever 7D2 has it will get better than 7D2 sensor
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Gel

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2015, 10:08:43 am »

Just had a look at the promo video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6KyWbns0ro#t=181 ) and couldn't understand why not a 645z?
Much better camera for the job - much better DR, crazily high ISOs compared to the 5Ds, better pixels too due to more light collecting area.
Even more funnily does 1080@60p which the Canon does not. Yes, little more costly but looking at the theoretical cost of the shoot a minor expense.

In short, I didn't see any strong supportive statements as to 'why'.



Good point, let's keep ignoring that shall we :D

Ken R

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2015, 11:50:28 am »

Just had a look at the promo video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6KyWbns0ro#t=181 ) and couldn't understand why not a 645z?
Much better camera for the job - much better DR, crazily high ISOs compared to the 5Ds, better pixels too due to more light collecting area.
Even more funnily does 1080@60p which the Canon does not. Yes, little more costly but looking at the theoretical cost of the shoot a minor expense.

In short, I didn't see any strong supportive statements as to 'why'.



Canon has lost it. Gone Cuckoo, Loco. Bye Bye. Shame because the body looks like it has some really nice engineering improvements but man, looks like the typical Canon tale of a great body looking for a sensor. This of course, pending testing.
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araucaria

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2015, 12:17:06 pm »

I guess there are some people who need good autofocus, that could be one the "whys"
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Joe Towner

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2015, 01:58:56 pm »

Anyone taking bets if CaptureOne will support the camera or files?
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Doug Peterson

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2015, 02:35:26 pm »

Anyone taking bets if CaptureOne will support the camera or files?

No need to take bets. Phase One has always supported every (pro) Canon.

If your question is based on the fact that Phase One doesn't support competitive medium format systems, the answer is this is not medium format. It's a 35mm camera with more pixels.

Support for new cameras has, historically, been added to Capture One Pro 1-3 months after the camera ships. I have no reason to expect any different for this camera. That would point to a July-September timeframe.

Timeframe varies based on how different the sensor is from previous sensors, whether the manufacturer gets a camera to Phase earlier-than-launch (usually not), and what cycle C1 is in when they get the camera (i.e. if they get it a day after they've just released a new version then it might be longer than if they get it two weeks before the planned launch for a new version).

Sometimes raw support is provided before tethered support. This is especially true when a new tethering protocol is used. Given Canon's switch to USB3 with this model, and some of the ongoing issues with 35mm dSLR USB3 drivers and OSX and power (see also Nikon D800), I suspect this might be the case this time.

Of course, it's all just wild speculation (predicated on past experience and knowledge of the process, but speculation none the less).
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 02:53:41 pm by Doug Peterson »
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eronald

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2015, 02:47:21 pm »

No need to take bets. Phase One has always supported every (pro) Canon. It's supposed to launch in June and lag-for-support is usually between 1 and 3 months, so I'd expect support in the Jul-Sep timeframe.

If your question is based on the fact that Phase One doesn't support competitive medium format systems, the answer is this is not medium format. It's a 35mm camera with more pixels.

Doug,

 You have a great sense of humor :)
 
Edmund

I think I will dig out my old software and make a C1 profile for the 5DR. Just to show that it can be done :)
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Doug Peterson

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2015, 02:54:31 pm »

Doug,

 You have a great sense of humor :)
 
Edmund

I think I will dig out my old software and make a C1 profile for the 5DR. Just to show that it can be done :)


Of course it can! Capture One supports arbitrary selection of ICC and ICM profiles for any supported camera.

Ken R

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2015, 03:09:34 pm »

FWIW, Canon has posted some Sample Images from the 5DSR HERE
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eronald

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2015, 03:45:48 pm »

Of course it can! Capture One supports arbitrary selection of ICC and ICM profiles for any supported camera.

Exactly. :)

Edmund
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Chris Livsey

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2015, 04:52:17 pm »

FWIW, Canon has posted some Sample Images from the 5DSR HERE

Am I correct that as the data given states; Picture Style- Fine detail then these are OOC jpegs?
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Stefan.Steib

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #75 on: February 06, 2015, 05:52:19 pm »

I think there are some points to remember when speaking about these new Canon 50 Mpix cameras:

Pro for Canon: right now there is no other way to create 5x50 Mpix/sec resolution (would be interesting to know how many until the buffer overflows).
there are now enough new lenses which will support these resolutions, like Zeiss Otus, Sigma ART, Tamron´s new 15-30mm and of course the new Canon lenses like the 11-24.
They have a higher lens opening available than existing MF lenses.
There are shorter Wideangle image angles available for 24x36, with the new 50 Mpix "MF" cmos the problem with MF wideangle lenses for architecture have even got worse.
HCam B1 and Alpa FPS are solutions, but there still is the cost of this. A factor 5 to max 10x more for only a few Mpix (CCD) and hppelessly slower workflow ?

Cons for Canon: Sony and Nikon will release their highres bodies very soon. As Canon does a conventional DSLR construction, the costs are definitely higher for a comparable
body than a new A7R II even with 5 axis stabilisation (as Sony will produce this in masses for several camera models I guess)
Maybe Canon see´s Nikon as their main competitor for this range, but I think this is an error. DSLR´s are more expensive to make, to maintain and to support than EVILS.
Very soon it will be clear that Sony  and maybe others like Samsung who use the more modern technology for camera making, plus shorter Product cycles will be the main competition for Canon and Nikon if those 2 do not change to these principles also.

And yes: if Sony releases a sensor which will be on par with the actual DR of the A7R with 50+ Mpix, Canon will have huge problems.

Greetings from Germany
Stefan
 
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 06:15:22 pm by Stefan.Steib »
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eronald

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #76 on: February 06, 2015, 06:05:04 pm »

Maybe we need a new "High Resolution Photography" forum? There doesn't seem to be such an obvious distance between the low end backs and the high end dSLRs. In fact there seems to be an overlap.

Edmund
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MatthewCromer

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #77 on: February 06, 2015, 06:24:21 pm »

Quote
Pro for Canon: right now there is no other way to create 5x50 Mpix/sec resolution (would be interesting to know how many until the buffer overflows).

Um, the camera isn't shipping until JUNE. Assuming it ships on time.

I'll lay heavy bets the Sony 50MP ships months sooner...
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AlterEgo

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2015, 06:28:22 pm »

Maybe Canon see´s Nikon as their main competitor for this range, but I think this is an error. DSLR´s are more expensive to make, to maintain and to support than EVILS.
so far Sony did not move from the 3rd place... may be they will one day... and by the same token Nikon does not consider Sony either - no Nikon mirrorless FFs
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Jim Kasson

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Re: 50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked
« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2015, 08:38:08 pm »

Maybe we need a new "High Resolution Photography" forum? There doesn't seem to be such an obvious distance between the low end backs and the high end dSLRs. In fact there seems to be an overlap.

You, sir, are a provocateur!

Jim
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