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Author Topic: set adobe print utility inches margins  (Read 13229 times)

smilem

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set adobe print utility inches margins
« on: January 24, 2015, 01:56:56 pm »

I gave Adobe ACPU "Adobe color print utility" a try today and NO the adobe did not fix the
margins problem on windows. Still the margins are in inches and you can't set them other than default 1 inch.

So perhaps somebody can enlighten me how this can be the official way to print targets on windows if
nobody fixes this bug since this utility is released thats since Photoshop CS4.

How you suppose to use it?
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Rhossydd

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2015, 02:24:06 pm »

It may not be particularly elegant at positioning targets on the page, but it always gets the important bits on the paper well enough to measure.
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smilem

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2015, 03:36:55 pm »

It may not be particularly elegant at positioning targets on the page, but it always gets the important bits on the paper well enough to measure.

Not so if I use isis and the diamonds gets cut away by wrong positioning. And I can't adjust it because of the bug. Can't adobe hire a better part time student to do the ACPU utility?
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digitaldog

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2015, 03:56:02 pm »

Not so if I use isis and the diamonds gets cut away by wrong positioning. And I can't adjust it because of the bug. Can't adobe hire a better part time student to do the ACPU utility?
You need to of course consider the diamonds part of the entire image so perhaps playing with page size to 'compensate' for this? I've heard of this bug many times but have never seen it on Mac OS.

What profile package are you using? Doesn't it provide a way of printing the targets directly?
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smilem

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2015, 03:10:43 am »

You need to of course consider the diamonds part of the entire image so perhaps playing with page size to 'compensate' for this? I've heard of this bug many times but have never seen it on Mac OS.

Yes this is windows only bug.

What profile package are you using? Doesn't it provide a way of printing the targets directly?

The targets are standalone not from any package. The client wants to follow a recommended path for printing targets
that means use a pirated copy of CS4 software or use ACPU utility. Since the utility does not work. I think I will have to direct all my clients to use pirated versions old of Adobe software (portable versions etc.). to print targets.
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Simon J.A. Simpson

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 04:36:05 am »

Windows only bug ?  Well, ACPU prints my targets nicely off-centre and I'm on a Mac.

My fix was to off-set the file by pasting it into a layer over a white background moving it about, using trial and error (And a  bit of measuring) to get it in the right place.  A bit tedious to to begin with but once you've done it you've got the file as a template to use again.
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smilem

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 07:15:07 am »

Windows only bug ?  Well, ACPU prints my targets nicely off-centre and I'm on a Mac.

My fix was to off-set the file by pasting it into a layer over a white background moving it about, using trial and error (And a  bit of measuring) to get it in the right place.  A bit tedious to to begin with but once you've done it you've got the file as a template to use again.

Now that is strange, but very clever way to trick the ACPU. I wonder if this template is universal, or different for every printer?
Could this be considered a fix?
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 01:01:24 pm »

The Windows bug is that it doesn't print patch sizes as large as it should.  There's a lot of stuff in the LuLa archives about this as well as the Adobe forums.  IIRC the difference is that the patch sizes are 3% smaller than if you print a target from Photoshop CS4.  I do my profiling using ArgyllCMS with an i1Pro and the readings are OK.  Maybe automated systems find this size differential problematic.  As noted this bug has been around since ACPU was first put out and Adobe show no interest in fixing it.

Alan
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digitaldog

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 02:04:05 pm »

Maybe automated systems find this size differential problematic. 
For an iSis, that would probably be OK. It's not that picky. And FWIW, it's usually not a good idea to use the minimum patch size if possible with such devices anyway. What you can't do is cut off the diamonds. A kluge of a fix is to simply print the target without any patches so you get the diamond pattern, lay the other print on top in correct alignment, carefully load into the iSis so now your diamonds can be read.
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Rhossydd

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 02:48:06 pm »

Maybe automated systems find this size differential problematic.
Indeed. The DTP-70 won't measure unexpected sized targets, but it's possible* to edit the reference files for the targets so that the autospectro is expecting the data as mis-printed. In it's favour, at least ACPU is consistent in it's resizing.
I'd guess that something similar could be done for the iSIS reference files too, if the resizing proved problematic.


*Previously documented here on Lula
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smilem

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 02:52:43 pm »

Adobe decided to remove this feature from their products so they need to provide a working alternative. That means no gluing printed diamonds to another target to get size right etc. I can't see why they will not fix this, clearly shows that they do not care about color management at all. And we should be grateful for the fact it is working at all.

So the mindset to pay for software to be unable to use it is OK?
I understand now why chromix charges 300Eur for their profiles they are gluing each target to templates and this very tiresome !  :P So is this some kind of conspiracy to not fix your software ? Or stupidity on user part?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 02:55:34 pm by smilem »
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digitaldog

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 03:12:21 pm »

Adobe decided to remove this feature from their products so they need to provide a working alternative.
I don't think so. Who would print without any color management in Photoshop other than to output a target for a profile (something the profile makers should provide)?
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smilem

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2015, 01:11:18 pm »

I don't think so. Who would print without any color management in Photoshop other than to output a target for a profile (something the profile makers should provide)?

So it's the color profile makers should provide this? Why not OS creators like microsoft?
The point is Adobe made such utility only with allot of bugs, so it's logical that they need to fix them then.
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digitaldog

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2015, 01:59:16 pm »

So it's the color profile makers should provide this? Why not OS creators like microsoft?
Yes because who else (and why) would you print this data without color management? Targets for building profiles yes, any other reason? As for the OS, at least on Mac, the ColorSync utility will do this. Microsoft? They can't even build system wide color management or a browser that handles it (as far as I know).
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The point is Adobe made such utility only with allot of bugs, so it's logical that they need to fix them then.
All software has bugs and I'm sure if ACPU were anything be free, Adobe would fix those Window bugs.
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GWGill

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2015, 11:06:27 pm »

I don't think so. Who would print without any color management in Photoshop other than to output a target for a profile (something the profile makers should provide)?
Someone who wants to do color management outside of PhotoShop will want to do this - i.e. when dealing with any image that has already been rendered to the printer colorspace.
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digitaldog

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2015, 12:21:54 am »

Someone who wants to do color management outside of PhotoShop will want to do this - i.e. when dealing with any image that has already been rendered to the printer colorspace.
Fine, embed that profile, all will be fine.

They applied the color management outside of Photoshop but now they have to print it untagged in Photoshop? Seems like a stretch. Let's be honest too. We were able to do this from Photoshop 5 to CS4 or CS5 (can't recall which) and Adobe removed it because it was a huge mess thanks to Apple and other's who kept breaking various areas of the print path. Very few users needed the functionality too.

If someone has a untagged target to print, the software that built the target should take on the role of printing it as well, instead of expecting Photoshop to do so. Thankfully, at least on Mac, Apple gave us that ability in the CS utility.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 11:05:00 am by digitaldog »
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smilem

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2015, 04:29:35 am »

Quote
All software has bugs and I'm sure if ACPU were anything be free, Adobe would fix those Window bugs.

So you say adobe would fix it if ACPU would be commercial software? I think it should be part of photoshop that is commercial software.

You do know Photoshop allows to work with non-color-managed images, allows to untag profiles etc. The CS4 allowed to print them too. So why not remove the other un-color-managed features from photoshop then? If they leave those then the print feature should be there also.
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digitaldog

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2015, 11:03:12 am »

So you say adobe would fix it if ACPU would be commercial software? I think it should be part of photoshop that is commercial software.
I don't disagree, that's just not going to happen. As I said, we had literally years of issues between printer manufactures drivers, Apple and Adobe and Adobe decided one 'fix' was to disable this print path.
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You do know Photoshop allows to work with non-color-managed images, allows to untag profiles etc.
Not really. You can't turn off color management in Photoshop. An untagged document is still color managed in terms of an assumed color space (whatever you have set in it's Color Settings dialog for working space) along with the display profile. And like that approach, so is the print path. You can feed it untagged data but it is still going to assume some color space for the RGB or CMYK numbers and deal with them as such.
Even with GWGill's suggestion, (that color management was conducted outside Photoshop), that data has to have an embedded profile OR Photoshop assumes a color space for the numbers that probably isn't correct. So again, why would anyone feed Photoshop an untagged document for output? It isn't designed for this workflow and it's kind of a pointless workflow too. Untagged RGB and CMYK is mystery meat. For color targets, we don't care how the image appears. For actual images, we do and that's why Photoshop forces color management upon it's data.
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GWGill

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2015, 06:53:23 pm »

Fine, embed that profile, all will be fine.
Tagging an image with a device link won't work, and even if it did, you may want to use a color conversion engine not available in Photoshop - i.e. you shouldn't be forced to use PhotoShop's color management just because Adobe can't imagine that anyone won't want to use it.
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GWGill

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Re: set adobe print utility inches margins
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2015, 06:57:02 pm »

Untagged RGB and CMYK is mystery meat.
Only if PhotoShop assumed that it's the be-all and end-all of color management. In a larger context, this need not be the case - the user may know what they are doing, and actually expect PhotoShop to do as they ask.
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