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Author Topic: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?  (Read 13123 times)

ZamanPhoto

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Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« on: January 23, 2015, 12:06:54 am »

Hello all ..

its being long time I had an idea in mind to use newer camera technology with old fashion bodies. and since Sony A7 family come with high specs according to its price, I had a sense that a A7r body could act as a digital back.

I sent an email to Kapture Group, the leader company in digital back adapters:

Quote
Hey Keith ..

How are you doing?

I have an idea for you, think of it, it might be another trend in photography your company will provide.

Why not manufacturing an adapter than hold Sony A7,A7s,A7r as a digital back to Fuji 680?? Sony A7r (36mp) become very popular camera according to its specs and price, live view is there too, and it has super accurate focus peek. I guess you agree that the combination to use such camera as a digital back for fuji 680 series body with tilt shift option would be another achievement added to your company success.

In additional, this adapter (the idea) will bring Fuji 680 body and lenses into videography field too, since Sony A7s can shoot upto 4K video resolution.

If you agreed! Send me free of charge adapter so I’ll become your beta tester :)

Got my idea?

Thank you

Please participate if you do have any useful inputs and ideas.. or even liked the idea  ;D

Thank you
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 12:09:21 am by ZamanPhoto »
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DanielStone

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2015, 03:09:59 am »

In theory I think it could work, but TBH, if I NEEDED movements for correction or intentional distortion, I think I'd rather use a Cambo Actus.

The GX680 also requires the one-shot box to work, so it won't be as simple as "slap a camera on it", unless you put the A7r into bulb mode, then trigger the lens' shutter.

-Dan
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ZamanPhoto

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2015, 03:14:48 am »

In theory I think it could work, but TBH, if I NEEDED movements for correction or intentional distortion, I think I'd rather use a Cambo Actus.

The GX680 also requires the one-shot box to work, so it won't be as simple as "slap a camera on it", unless you put the A7r into bulb mode, then trigger the lens' shutter.

-Dan

Why you need to trigger from Fuji body?? you can mirror it up and use Sony as digital back and trigger too ... remember you have live view option which will safe you big headache :)
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DanielStone

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2015, 04:14:39 am »

"Mirror up" will CLOSE the lens, fyi. You then have to trigger the lens' shutter to fire(since it is a leaf shutter system).

A member here made a DIY technical camera, to use GX680 lenses, and the Sony A7 platform:
http://chiek.co.kr/list/zboard.php?id=6807

You might want to contact him for details.

-Dan
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ZamanPhoto

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2015, 05:08:28 am »

Dan ..

hold on please and  correct me if I'm wrong. How mirror up will close the shutter even if its leaf shutter lens? mirror up means firing the camera and light go thru the black box and hits film .. right? and that is exactly the sensor (A7r) needs to see thru the lens. I mean mirror up fuji body will give access to sensor to the lens.

I viewed the video, seems he is not using fuji lenses .. check it out... but as I expected, tilt shift option is super cool here since you'll have giant optical footage out of medium format lenses to narrow sensor size sony has. stitching images would be another cool idea too.



"Mirror up" will CLOSE the lens, fyi. You then have to trigger the lens' shutter to fire(since it is a leaf shutter system).

A member here made a DIY technical camera, to use GX680 lenses, and the Sony A7 platform:
http://chiek.co.kr/list/zboard.php?id=6807

You might want to contact him for details.

-Dan
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Andrew57

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 06:15:34 am »

The A7r sounds like a very inexpensive way to generate 36MP digital files - I am interested in a set up that will work for still life and product photography and having view camera like movements would be useful for correcting perspective and being able to alter the plane of focus. I have looked at both the Cambo Actus and the home made Chiek version (which looks like a very cool project well done to Joongkeun Chie). But correct me if I am missing something but neither of them seem to have the facility to tilt the back standard, which can be useful for straightening verticals - am I missing something?
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Chris Barrett

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 09:44:14 am »

Andrew, even the Arca M2 has no tilt or swing on the rear standard.  For straightening verticals, why wouldn't you simply level the camera?

Andrew57

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 10:49:21 am »

Because if you leveled the camera you would lose the composition of the shot, i.e. looking down on a square perfume bottle with a moderately wide lens. I often have to spend a lot of time straightening verticals in post so would be ideal to shoot them being able to correct the convergence of the verticals in the first place.

Does anyone know of a more recent camera with all the movements designed for digital?
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lowep

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 11:44:45 am »

like this one?
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DanielStone

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 12:19:24 pm »

Dan ..

hold on please and  correct me if I'm wrong. How mirror up will close the shutter even if its leaf shutter lens? mirror up means firing the camera and light go thru the black box and hits film .. right? and that is exactly the sensor (A7r) needs to see thru the lens. I mean mirror up fuji body will give access to sensor to the lens.

I viewed the video, seems he is not using fuji lenses .. check it out... but as I expected, tilt shift option is super cool here since you'll have giant optical footage out of medium format lenses to narrow sensor size sony has. stitching images would be another cool idea too.




When you are using a digital back or film in a GX680, the lens gets closed after/during the mirror gets flipped up. This is so it remains light-tight pre-exposure. When you initiate the exposure, it triggers the lens to open, starting the exposure.

You would need to put the back(or in this case, the Sony A7) into "bulb" exposure mode, so it is technically "exposing" when the lens is closed(before and after the lens has opened for the duration of the exposure).

Order of operations on how I see it being done, with camera functioning as-designed:
1. Compose in viewfinder(normally), movements, etc.
2. Once composition/focus is locked down, flip up mirror (this will close the lens' shutter)
3. Start "exposure" on Sony A7(using cable release preferably, to not give any potential vibration)
4. Trigger lens/body to open lens and start exposure
5. Once exposure is finished(and lens is closed), end "exposure" on Sony "back"

As you can see, it can be a somewhat complicated affair this way. If you were to simply go with a smaller, more "designed for small format" system like the Cambo Actus, you could potentially save yourself some of the (above) steps. No mirror to flip up, you'd get live-view focusing, your choice of lenses would be much greater, and you'd have a MUCH smaller package to tote around(if you do location work). The GX680 IS a wondeful system, even for digital. However, it is cumbersome and NOT lightweight nor very portable outside of a studio. I've used mine in the field(with film, mind you), and it works extremely well. However, if I were looking for a technical camera "option" for a 35mm sensor system like the Sony or Nikon D8**, I'd be looking at the Actus really hard.
The only thing that(for me) might be somewhat limiting would be the lack of lens extension available.


Because if you leveled the camera you would lose the composition of the shot, i.e. looking down on a square perfume bottle with a moderately wide lens. I often have to spend a lot of time straightening verticals in post so would be ideal to shoot them being able to correct the convergence of the verticals in the first place.

Does anyone know of a more recent camera with all the movements designed for digital?

Check into the Sinar P3-slr. It retains all of the movements(fully geared!) of its precursory brethren(Sinar P line), but is smaller in size(although not Cambo Actus small, nor in the same ballpark price-wise to the Cambo)

http://www.sinar.ch/en/category/products/cameras/p-slr/

Cambo also has their (IMO) more "studio oriented" Ultima 35 lineup, which has been around for over a decade:
http://www.cambo.com/html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/item85.html
https://cambouk.wordpress.com/2013/08/28/eduardo-chacon-why-i-invested-in-the-cambo-ultima-35-camera-system/
(old article, but shows movements and some techy details): http://www.shutterbug.com/content/cambos-ultima-35
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EricWHiss

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 01:18:07 pm »

I think what's cool about the 680 is that you have a viewfinder option without need for a sliding back, but then I'm not sure you could get the A7R correctly aligned?  Maybe?  I bought a 680 some years ago with the intent to use for table top work with one of my digital backs, but for some of the reasons Dan pointed out I didn't get very far. I should sell it.

I know several of my customers are using the A7R on the X-Act2 which are not very expensive used.  ONe of them, Richard Gale, is selling the A7R adapters for it.  The cambo Actus is pretty nice. Also along those lines is the Novoflex Balpro T/S which I think is cool since it takes the same lens boards as the X-Act2.  Also Hartblei has an offering that is worth looking at.
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GregShapps

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2015, 02:22:16 pm »

I use my A7r on my Cambo Ultima on one side of my camera stand arm and a 22" tv connected via HDMI on the other side of the arm which is mounted on a Humanscale M8 monitor arm.   This gives me a 22" live view for composing and focusing, that can be maneuvered all around for any angle of view.  Its an awesome set up!
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bpepz

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2015, 03:24:33 am »

In theory I think it could work, but TBH, if I NEEDED movements for correction or intentional distortion, I think I'd rather use a Cambo Actus.

The GX680 also requires the one-shot box to work, so it won't be as simple as "slap a camera on it", unless you put the A7r into bulb mode, then trigger the lens' shutter.

-Dan

As long as you are not using a digital back, and using something like an A7R, there is absolutely no reason to need the one shot box. Why would you use the shutter in the Fuji when the A7R already has a shutter?

Even if you ran into a complication where it was impossible to have the mirror up and the shutter open on the fuji body, all you would need to do is set the shutterspeed on the a7R to something longer then the shutterspeed on the fuji lens. I am using a digital back on a fujigx680 right now that would normally need a one shot box, but by using this technique it eliminates the need for it.

All in all though, the main problem I am seeing with sticking a A7R or any camera to the back of the fuji is the added thickness will make infinity focus impossible. I can't remember who, but someone on this forum found a way to detect the rails, bellows, and mount of a fuji gx body and put a canon camera on the back of it and fuji lens in front, had complete infinity focus, and full movements.

Overall, even the best fuji lenses for the gx680 are really not that sharp, however, they have incredible color/contrast and bokeh rendering I have never seen anywhere else, which makes it totally unique.
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chiek

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2015, 02:04:09 pm »

"Mirror up" will CLOSE the lens, fyi. You then have to trigger the lens' shutter to fire(since it is a leaf shutter system).

A member here made a DIY technical camera, to use GX680 lenses, and the Sony A7 platform:
http://chiek.co.kr/list/zboard.php?id=6807

You might want to contact him for details.

-Dan

Thanks for interest to my concepts.
Now, I'm making 2 different version.
The One is v1.6 , more sturdy rear base plate.
No cut and no waste original gx680 all rear parts, it means you can easy recover to original gx680.

The other one is v1.8 , different rear design. I will post soon.

P.S my renewal website just open, pls visit it and any comments are welcome.
JK

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chiek imaging, in Seoul, SOUTH-KOREA.
Sinar P2, Hasselblad CFv-50c medium format and a7R systems
major job is products shot, especially for electronic products.
but interested in Landscapes and Portraits, Still-life.
my hobby is Designing camera…
www.chiek.co.kr

andrewkeam

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2015, 03:43:24 am »

As far as I understand, there are no issues with the Chiek GX680 camera with infinity focus and you can use Canon TS-E lenses on it (in stop down aperture mode).

The Cambo Actus does not have a Canon Eos lens board at this stage, there are rumours of them developing a Eos lens board with electronic communication but whether or not this actually happens is another thing..

Not sure if anybody is interested but I saw one of the Chiek GX680 cameras on Ebay..  No affiliation to the seller, just thought it may be of interest to somebody here..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141560894303?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649



:)
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GregShapps

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2015, 01:49:46 pm »

Since I only use large format lenses on my Ultima with my A7r I obviously focus with my standards but how does one actually focus with a canon or MF lens?   Do you focus with the barrel of the lens or with tech standards?   How are you changing the aperture of the canon lens without electronic contacts?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 09:24:19 am by GregShapps »
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2015, 10:35:48 pm »

As far as I understand, there are no issues with the Chiek GX680 camera with infinity focus and you can use Canon TS-E lenses on it (in stop down aperture mode).

The Cambo Actus does not have a Canon Eos lens board at this stage, there are rumours of them developing a Eos lens board with electronic communication but whether or not this actually happens is another thing..

Not sure if anybody is interested but I saw one of the Chiek GX680 cameras on Ebay..  No affiliation to the seller, just thought it may be of interest to somebody here..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141560894303?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649



:)


They're close.....

http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/Item34418.html


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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BobShaw

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2015, 11:02:21 pm »


They're close.....

http://www.cambo.com/Html/products_photo/set01/english/internet/Item34418.html


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

I hope it will work on a Cambo Wide DS. That would be fantastic.
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sailronin

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 10:31:27 am »

Works with a Cambodia Actus

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Thank you for looking, comments and critiques are always welcome.
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wallpaperviking

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Re: Sony A7r as a digital back?? Fuji 680 series?? Why not?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2015, 11:19:52 pm »

Just saw this posted on another thread with regards to the Cambo Actus and "electronic lens boards"..

" Steven Hendrix mentioned it on another conversation  a couple of months ago... then I checked the Conon Eos adapter that Campo is going to release during the second half of the year... and found out that ...it is not an EOS adapter (!!!) but rather a universal aperture control for all lenses that have electronic iris... If you check the picture of the ACB-CA that Cambo has published, you may notice that it is two parts... one is the iris control (ACB) and then there is a Canon (CA) mount in it which is interchangeable... Hence, you should expect an ACB-CO soon after, as the the name ACB-xx suggests... "

Steven, is there anyway at all this could be possible?

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