Je suis Charlie

[amolitor]

These events, while tragic and terrible for those involved, should be treated as they are. A tiny act of lunatic murder by some unbalanced people.

Are you a cartoonist? Have you offended Allah? Do you have a dozen fatwas on your head? What can you do to increase your long term survival?

Eat right. Exercise more. Don't drive so much.

Just because some loonies picked a name off a list (maybe) and got some guns doesn't mean you're in danger. There's a LOT of names on a lot of lists, and the mullahs have almost no power to actually harm you. They can only hope some loony does you in, so they can declare victory. And every so often they get a victory in this sense.

Like all murders, this is terrible for those involved, of course. And they have, of course, all my sympathy.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

You got to be kidding, Andrew!

[mbaginy]

Just because some loonies picked a name off a list (maybe) and got some guns doesn't mean you're in danger. There's a LOT of names on a lot of lists, and the mullahs have almost no power to actually harm you.

What dream world do you live in?  Hate to burst your bubble, but WE ALL are in danger!  A bomb was deposited on the platform of the Bonn train station about a year ago.  It didn't explode because the Islam Terrorists goofed in wiring the explosives.  The German rail system had their surveillance cameras turned off due to cost restrains (and general incompetence & disinterest = my view).  The only cameras functioning were those in the station’s MacDonald’s.  They filmed the fellow who is now being prosecuted.

I take a train from that platform almost daily.  Don’t tell me, we’re not at risk!

By the way, MacDonald’s had to remove their cameras because they were imposing on the privacy of their customers.  The German railway mentioned, they would have their cameras turned on now, but that’s questionable.

[Justinr]

It's something for them to throw back at the West to try to justify their violence against innocents.

Well that's a new one. The crusades! Not come across that being used by anyone before to justify anything. Who dragged those into the argument?

[Justinr]

It's also used by liberal/progressive types to justify the action of the terrorists on the grounds that they were oppressed, downtrodden, victims segregated from society at large, and therefore it is understandable that they would act out violently--essentially blaming the victims for their own deaths. "Little Eiechmanns" comes to mind.

What the apologists fail to understand, or more likely deliberately ignore, is that in most Western countries, including the USA, Britain, and France, the Muslims tend to form insular enclaves with their own schools and stores and entertainment and lifestyle. You have the Somali enclaves in the Minneapolis area, a large Muslim population in Dearborn, and similar communities in Britain and France. Children born in these enclaves are usually educated in Muslim schools, and don't see much of the outside world, unless their parents are secular/non-practicing Muslims. In many cases, these enclaves bring the dysfunctional social institutions of the parent country (honor killings, sexual assaults, etc.) with them. But when that self-imposed isolation from the host society causes economic and social disadvantages, they blame the host society for not being tolerant/open enough, and cast it as a historical continuation of the Crusades, which they cast as wars of Muslim oppression (conveniently forgetting the centuries of Muslim conquests that preceded the Crusades).

The Charlie Hebdo kind of crap will continue to go on until everyone is willing to call a spade a spade, and recognize that the jihadis have declared war against all of us, that their motivations are based on a dysfunctional religion, that they do not fear death, and they will not stop until they are all killed, or we all bend knee to Allah.

Meanwhile, in 2014, back in the U.S. -

Number of Deaths1: 12,555
Number of Injuries1: 22,776
Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured1: 628

Gun Violence Archive.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/tolls/2014

Oh, and when was the last time you visited any sort of Muslim enclave in Britain?

[Jeremy Roussak]

no, but it is a prerequisite for a reasonable discussion about the topic

Of course it isn't. The value, if any, of my contributions, or anyone else's contributions, to this, or any, thread, depends on the argument they advance and the coherence with which they advance it. The religious affiliation of the poster is utterly irrelevant.

A record such as yours of support for vicious criminality, on the other hand, might be held to be of relevance.

I am lost - for which murder exactly ?

Murders.  Plural.

Jeremy

[Jeremy Roussak]

So why should deejjjaaa apologise for the actions of some terrorists? Are you saying he was involved?

Read what I wrote before responding to it. I made no such suggestion.

Jeremy

[amolitor]

Of course there is danger. I never said there was not.

Only that, for us in the western world, it's low. There are certainly regions of the world where dying of terrorist acts is likely enough to worry about. For most people reading these words, though, you should worry more about your diet and so on.

People sociopathic enough to commit these acts, and organized enough to actually succeed, are blessedly rare. Here in the USA far far from the epicenter, virtually all terror plots are actually one completely incapable boob and a bunch of FBI agents doing all the work for him. And then arresting him, of course.

[mbaginy]

I never said there was not.

Maybe I understood your comment, "... have almost no power to actually harm you..." too literally.  It's when the danger isn't only seen on TV, but I actually experience it, that the virtual becomes reality.

In recent years I keep a watchful eye.  I've removed the USA sticker from my car and tell as few people as possible that I'm American.  Too many loonies around.  And I surely won't be in the crowds during the carnival season.

[Jonathan Wienke]

Oh, and when was the last time you visited any sort of Muslim enclave in Britain?

Seriously???
http://www.wsj.com/articles/rotherham-residents-search-for-answers-in-u-k-sex-abuse-scandal-1409272644

http://www.smh.com.au/world/race-religion-immigration-the-rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-consumes-uk-20140827-109acs.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rotherham-child-sex-scandal-resulted-4137542

[Justinr]

Seriously???
http://www.wsj.com/articles/rotherham-residents-search-for-answers-in-u-k-sex-abuse-scandal-1409272644

http://www.smh.com.au/world/race-religion-immigration-the-rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-consumes-uk-20140827-109acs.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscruton/2014/08/30/why-did-british-police-ignore-pakistani-gangs-raping-rotherham-children-political-correctness/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rotherham-child-sex-scandal-resulted-4137542

Seriously???!

And while dishing out question marks perhaps you could actually answer the question posed, or address the issue of 409 deaths attributed to guns already this year in the States. http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

However, if you really wish to bring allegations of sexual abuse into this then maybe it's worth pointing out that race or religion is not always a determining factor in such tragic cases -

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-23355531

You may recognise the lady involved. When you are next out surfing the web entering Jimmy Saville as a search term will turn up some rather rather unpleasant allegations, not to say all sorts of conspiracy theories.

[Jonathan Wienke]

Seriously???!

And while dishing out question marks perhaps you could actually answer the question posed, or address the issue of 409 deaths attributed to guns already this year in the States. http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

It's a separate issue. What's your point?

As to the Muslim enclaves in Britain, I've never visited the country, so I've never visited a Muslim enclave there. But it's pretty obvious that they exist if you do any cursory searching online. What is your point?

[Jonathan Wienke]

Well that's a new one. The crusades! Not come across that being used by anyone before to justify anything. Who dragged those into the argument?

The terrorists. If you read jihadi propaganda, there are frequent references to Westerners and non-muslims as "crusaders".

[Justinr]

It's a separate issue. What's your point?

As to the Muslim enclaves in Britain, I've never visited the country, so I've never visited a Muslim enclave there. But it's pretty obvious that they exist if you do any cursory searching online. What is your point?

Basically that you are talking out of your behind.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Meanwhile, in 2014, back in the U.S. -

Number of Deaths1: 12,555
Number of Injuries1: 22,776
Number of Children (age 0-11) Killed/Injured1: 628

Gun Violence Archive.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/tolls/2014

Oh, and when was the last time you visited any sort of Muslim enclave in Britain?

Hi,

I don't think this is the time and place to address the gun violence in the USA, especially in the light of the things that seem to be an additional inspiration for the recent tragedies in Paris, the situation in Syria. In addition to the death toll that possibly exceeds 200,000, there are also some 9 million people who have fled their homes and 3 million of those have found a temporary place to stay in neighboring countries and other places in Europe.

A serious number of (mostly) young people in various Western European countries have been radicalized by an active group of fundamentalist recruiters. Some of these radicalized people have joined one or the other Jihad faction and actually fight each other in Syria or Iran and terrorize the region. Others are still here and are planning local mayhem, joined by those who return and are now combat trained and traumatized.

There are no simple solutions, but one needs to understand that the threat of these religiously motivated fundamentalists is not only in direct bodily harm, but also in the attempt to disrupt civil society in the western world. All these refugees flooding the European region are also cause for the resurgence of latent racism and for a decrease of liberties for normal citizens.

Also do not underestimate the sophistication of the people behind these terrorist activities. Their foot soldiers may not be all successful, but the overall plan is being played out at different levels. The recent hacking of the Centcom twitter and youtube accounts may not be the hardest thing to do for someone with the dedication and resources they have, but they are getting better. Also don't underestimate their resources, the financial ones alone run in the billions of dollars that can be easily tracked and then some.

There is lot's of hypocrisy on all sides of this conflict, and that's what Charlie Hebdo (amongst other issues in society and politics) ridiculed at such a terrible cost. They intend to continue doing so, let's hope they get all the support they, and many others like them, deserve and need.

Cheers,
Bart

[Jonathan Wienke]

Basically that you are talking out of your behind.

And you aren't? I've at least met some jihadis face-to-face, and seen the results of their handiwork firsthand. Have you?

[IanB]

As to the Muslim enclaves in Britain, I've never visited the country, so I've never visited a Muslim enclave there. But it's pretty obvious that they exist if you do any cursory searching online. What is your point?

I'm afraid I've just got to step in here - but not just for this post. I have wider concerns.

There are no Muslim "enclaves" in Britain - and the kind of highly-charged crap that Steven Emerson recently came out with on Fox News deserves all the ridicule it got. Sometimes you just have to thank whatever God there may be for the Brummie sense of humour. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/12/fox-news-expert-ridiculed-over-birmingham-is-totally-muslim-city-claims

Both the Jihadi propaganda, and a great deal of the response to it is far too prone to escalation. Wild talk winds people up, and when it all becomes too crazy to be decently contained there comes the danger of unstable people becoming violent - and that potential is on either side (and none). Fewer rash accusations all round would be a really good idea.

Let's all calm it down a bit - then we may get a better idea of how to resolve disputes rather than contribute to them. We only have one World here, and it's become very much smaller just in my lifetime.

I was not able to be in Paris on Sunday, but if I could have been I would have willingly stood alongside some of the many Muslims in the crowd.

[john beardsworth]

And you aren't? I've at least met some jihadis face-to-face, and seen the results of their handiwork firsthand. Have you?

Then your opinions on those jihadis may be worth hearing - but your ignorance about the UK has been accurately described!

[Justinr]

Hi,

I don't think this is the time and place to address the gun violence in the USA, especially in the light of the things that seem to be an additional inspiration for the recent tragedies in Paris, the situation in Syria. In addition to the death toll that possibly exceeds 200,000, there are also some 9 million people who have fled their homes and 3 million of those have found a temporary place to stay in neighboring countries and other places in Europe.

A serious number of (mostly) young people in various Western European countries have been radicalized by an active group of fundamentalist recruiters. Some of these radicalized people have joined one or the other Jihad faction and actually fight each other in Syria or Iran and terrorize the region. Others are still here and are planning local mayhem, joined by those who return and are now combat trained and traumatized.

There are no simple solutions, but one needs to understand that the threat of these religiously motivated fundamentalists is not only in direct bodily harm, but also in the attempt to disrupt civil society in the western world. All these refugees flooding the European region are also cause for the resurgence of latent racism and for a decrease of liberties for normal citizens.

Also do not underestimate the sophistication of the people behind these terrorist activities. Their foot soldiers may not be all successful, but the overall plan is being played out at different levels. The recent hacking of the Centcom twitter and youtube accounts may not be the hardest thing to do for someone with the dedication and resources they have, but they are getting better. Also don't underestimate their resources, the financial ones alone run in the billions of dollars that can be easily tracked and then some.

There is lot's of hypocrisy on all sides of this conflict, and that's what Charlie Hebdo (amongst other issues in society and politics) ridiculed at such a terrible cost. They intend to continue doing so, let's hope they get all the support they, and many others like them, deserve and need.

Cheers,
Bart

I rather feel that you are relying more on sensationalist media reporting rather than life on the ground. Yes there will be a few nutters, there always will be and always have been, in the 70's it was the awful specter of left wing unionism that was going to bring civilised Britain to its knees, before that it was reds under the beds and since we have had further shades of communism and, of course, terrorism. But the funny thing is that having lived in the UK for 45 years I never once felt threatened by Islam in any guise or form, and I did meet quite a few of that faith and found them on the whole easy going and friendly. Now, that is not to say I approve of their beheading, stonings, female mutilation etc, in fact I condemn it out all of hand, and, whats more, I rather feel that many Muslims in the west do so too. I was also very aware that many were trying to integrate with western social mores and girls were not generally kept locked away but went to the same schools and so on, alongside their contemporaries of other faiths.  It is a long process, but progress was being made. Running round condemning the whole of Islam and all its followers is not going to help.

Just for comparisons sake I now live in southern Ireland, a place that was full of bandits and murderers according to the media as I grew up in the UK. The IRA chieftains ruled the land with violence and intimidation alongside the papal keepers of the one true faith who would accept no compromise in keeping the catholic flame burning, apparently.  That, as it turned out, was total BS. Ireland certainly had some social division but it was never as bad as portrayed and certainly 95% of the population never wanted anything to do with it. They are more than happy that what oppression that did exist through the exercise of religious and political bigotry is now part of history and they can get on with their lives and their neighbours perfectly normally. I rather feel it's much the same with Islam, although the divisions between faiths is greater to start with, but not as extreme as many believe.

BTW, another funny thing is that the slaughter of thousands in America by their own people is never part of any debate other than the gun control one.

[Justinr]

And you aren't? I've at least met some jihadis face-to-face, and seen the results of their handiwork firsthand. Have you?

Doubtless you have, but I've been to Rotherham.