The overpriced Leica

[Iluvmycam]

Here is a good example of why I'd move away from Leica fast...if there was another digital rangefinder. (I have 5 Leicas and 6 Fujis)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1059620-REG/leica_14014_soft_release_button_leica.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/909178-REG/leica_14397_body_cap_m.html

Everything is overpriced and the Leica has a 2nd rate sensor for the $. No one can argue the fit and finish of the Leica...superb. But fit and finish don't produce pix...it massages the ego of the camera fondler.

The Fuji forum banned me for telling a few of them that they are a bunch of camera fondlers. But Leica devotees are second to none when it comes to camera fondlers.

There is nothing wrong with being a camera collector. But if you can't produce anything worthwhile for pix, don't get mad if someone calls you a camera fondler. Such people put their pride in their fondling. A non-camera fondler puts their pride in their pix.

[allegretto]

must suck to feel that way...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...such people put their pride in their fondling. A non-camera fondler puts their pride in their pix.

Yeah, right... says a guy with the name "I love my camera"!? How deep is that love? Is it only platonic or...? 1st base, 2nd base, 3rd base? Measurbating involved?

[Johnny_Johnson]

I wouldn't call the effort subtle like the presentation of a dry fly - more like hammering the bank with a streamer from a drift boat but - you've already got two strikes. Good fishing I guess.  :-)

Later,
Johnny

[Telecaster]

How is this not just plain ol' trolling? Leica operates in the luxury market, and doing so is how they stay in business. You can be offended (or not) by the existence of luxury goods. That's okay…your choice. But to broaden it into a "Leica owners are gear fondlers" thing is silly. In my experience they're (we're) as diverse a collection of folks as any other photo-based group. Far better to do creative things with whatever gear you happen to own & use.

-Dave-

[LesPalenik]

(I have 5 Leicas and 6 Fujis)

That's quite a collection, just all those body caps are worth over $300. You could trade them for a used D90.

[scooby70]

Here is a good example of why I'd move away from Leica fast...if there was another digital rangefinder. (I have 5 Leicas and 6 Fujis)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1059620-REG/leica_14014_soft_release_button_leica.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/909178-REG/leica_14397_body_cap_m.html

Everything is overpriced and the Leica has a 2nd rate sensor for the $. No one can argue the fit and finish of the Leica...superb. But fit and finish don't produce pix...it massages the ego of the camera fondler.

The Fuji forum banned me for telling a few of them that they are a bunch of camera fondlers. But Leica devotees are second to none when it comes to camera fondlers.

There is nothing wrong with being a camera collector. But if you can't produce anything worthwhile for pix, don't get mad if someone calls you a camera fondler. Such people put their pride in their fondling. A non-camera fondler puts their pride in their pix.

On a sad and depressing day (the news, Paris...) thank you for bringing joy to my life

[scooby70]

Here is a good example of why I'd move away from Leica fast...if there was another digital rangefinder. (I have 5 Leicas and 6 Fujis)

You could take the view that in digital RF's at least Leica are mere come lately imitators. Epson got there first with the worlds first digital RF, the RD1. Sell up and get the original digital RF... The RD1!

[Iluvmycam]

M240 IQ is 'just' doable for me.

I prefer Fuji's X sensor for IQ.
 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Mosh_Pit_no._7_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1280px-Mosh_Pit_no._7_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg
 
Fuji X

Fuji has a stupendous sensor. It is so good, I hate having to use the Leica sensor cause I know what the Fuji cando. But, I hate fighting the screwy controls on the Fuji. Fuji must have been designed by a real fondler. Focus by wire is one of the worst inventions that have come out of camera design. And Fuji keeps dummy down their lenses removing controls. Screwy Fuji. When I put a flash on my Fuji it wont work unless you reprogram the damn cam. I've missed many a shot due to the screwy
Fuji. When I put a flash in my Leica...guess what...it works.

But, both cams are fudged up in their own way. So I can chew out Fuji over Leica or Leica over Fuji.

Still, I wish Fuji made Leica sensor.  I use Fuji's if my cams will be wrecked. Fuji's are disposable, Leica's are not. Leica's controls are perfect. They are well thought out and simplified from eons of making great reportage cams. But Leica started on the new path of making high priced cams for fondlers more so that reporters.
 
I'm a doc photog, I'm not a fan boy of any one cam. It is a tool, that is it. I have to push my files a lot since I am not a staged / set up / studio photog. I prefer not having to fight my tools.
 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/GOTJ_Fire_Breather_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/996px-GOTJ_Fire_Breather_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

M240

Leica should have done better with its sensor on the M240 for the price it charges.

This is about as good as it gets for the M240 with my work.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.177_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1046px-Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.177_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Juggalete_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1037px-Juggalete_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg
 
M240

They talk of pixel density. The Leica M240 strikes me as 'low density' compared to the Fuji...but I'm not expert. Just some files work better than others. Leica's files will fall apart when you push em.

 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/The_Plane_Worshipers_vers_1_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1040px-The_Plane_Worshipers_vers_1_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg
 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Orient_Beach_St._Martin_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr._LR.jpg/1026px-Orient_Beach_St._Martin_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr._LR.jpg
 

M240

But any file will fall apart if you push it enuf...
 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Pole_Dance_Selfie_%40_Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no._36_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1024px-Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no._36_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg
 
Fuji X
 
Fuji has beautiful files to work with, even with the crop and lower mp sensor. Fuji X will do nice single image HDR. Leica falls apart more so than the Fuji with single image HDR.
 
M240 does nice BW...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Amsterdam_no._49_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/997px-Amsterdam_no._49_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg
 
M240


The Monochrom can produce 'film like' files, if you know how to work em.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Biker_no._134_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/624px-Biker_no._134_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.29_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1024px-Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.29_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

But MM is still way overpriced for what it is.
 
1 had 5 Leicas', sold 1 now have 4. I wont be upgrading the M240 any time soon unless Leica comes out with a 36 mp for $4500. If Fuji or some other company comes out with a 28mp - 36 mp rangefinder Leica knockoff for $3000 then will probably move.


Bottom line...Leica is way overpriced unless your a fondler. It is the finest fit and finish you can get for a mirrorless, but it has a second rate sesnor that my $500 Fuji  rivals and sometimes betters. The only reason I use Leica is because of the manual controls and rangefinder. Otherwise I was done with Leica when I got rid of my M'6's.


Tests with various cams including Leicas. (film and 6 mp to 40mp.)

http://www.photographycompared.tumblr.com/

[Telecaster]

You could take the view that in digital RF's at least Leica are mere come lately imitators. Epson got there first with the worlds first digital RF, the RD1. Sell up and get the original digital RF... The RD1!

Yeah!    My R-D1 has been retired from active duty but I like to give it some exercise every now & then.

I've taken many of my favorite photos, especially during the film era, with RF cameras. Not because they're necessarily so special in & of themselves but because I get along with them so well that they've usually been on-hand when opportunity/inspiration has presented itself.

-Dave-

[barryfitzgerald]

OEM camera accessories are always overpriced not likely to change either. As Leica is a top tier "niche" brand it's not shocking they're even more saucy on prices
And not everyone who owns Leica is rich I know a few people who worked long and hard to acquire their Leica stuff. Saying that I've never had a fondness for the brand leaving price aside it's just not my cup of tea

[ripgriffith]

M240 IQ is 'just' doable for me...............
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http://www.photographycompared.tumblr.com/

Not only does he troll, but he does it with such masterful logorrhea.

[K.C.]

Not only does he troll, but he does it with such masterful logorrhea.

Cool. A word I had to look up. Up to that point this thread was just a waste of time.

[scooby70]

Cool. A word I had to look up. Up to that point this thread was just a waste of time.

I actually thought it was quite funny.

I still can't read the camera fondler bits without them having an effect I think that the OP's little rant would be great as a Monty P sketch.

[maddogmurph]

I think he's trying to filibuster the M240 because he can't afford it?  I mean my experience with the Leica is that it's sharper.  It produces a different feel, from the X-T1, and the d810.  It tends to get things closer to right, straight out of the gate. 

That being said, it's not doing anything I can't produce in post production for the most part on my d810.  My friends from the camera shop swear by them, but I can produce incredible images on a rx100, or my 10MP camera phone.  And the bottom line is, if you're looking to buy a car.  And all you care about is the speed...

You can spend 1.15M on a mclaren P1 2014 and do 0-60 in 2.7 seconds

http://www.caranddriver.com/mclaren/p1

or you can go with the technology company Tesla, and do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, but spend 1/10th the price.

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

Sure, if you've got the Tesla, you're probably going to lose, but as far as I'm concerned, you're winning either way.

-Maddog

[Telecaster]

I've gotta say I'm a little leery of Leicas being compared to high-performance cars. Next thing you know, out come the watch & sailing boat discussions. All the stuff that (with some justification IMO) sets off the gear fondler accusations. Personally I really like rangefinders. That some of 'em I own happen to be Leicas has more to do with availability than anything else. If CaNikon were still making RFs the situation would likely be different. But that scenario exists only in an alternate universe where folks try out new tech advances like TTL viewing and autofocus and then decide…nah. 

I learned pic-taking with an M2, and my dad eventually gave it to me…'cuz he hardly ever used it, prefering his pocketable Retina IIc. So much for luxury status.

-Dave-

[maddogmurph]

I don't know Dave, I think once a guy tries the EVF on the X-T1 you can immediately realize all other technology is outdated and will likely soon be replaced.  The only negative of that in my view is that it sucks down more battery power.

[ErikKaffehr]

Or an Ariel Atom and renting some decent racing tack for the rest of the money?

http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/atom/

Best regards
Erik

I think he's trying to filibuster the M240 because he can't afford it?  I mean my experience with the Leica is that it's sharper.  It produces a different feel, from the X-T1, and the d810.  It tends to get things closer to right, straight out of the gate. 

That being said, it's not doing anything I can't produce in post production for the most part on my d810.  My friends from the camera shop swear by them, but I can produce incredible images on a rx100, or my 10MP camera phone.  And the bottom line is, if you're looking to buy a car.  And all you care about is the speed...

You can spend 1.15M on a mclaren P1 2014 and do 0-60 in 2.7 seconds

http://www.caranddriver.com/mclaren/p1

or you can go with the technology company Tesla, and do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, but spend 1/10th the price.

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

Sure, if you've got the Tesla, you're probably going to lose, but as far as I'm concerned, you're winning either way.

-Maddog

[BobDavid]

I try not to judge a person by the camera he/she uses. I love the Olympus m43 system. Sure, it does not create the cleanest files or the most detailed images, but still it is a really nice tool. If feels just right. It's versatile, small, light, and allows me to take pictures with less fuss than what I'd been using prior.

I like the iPhone, Nikon D810, the Sony A7s, Fuji's lineup, Canon's optics, MFDBs on view cams, pancake cams, and a dedicated body ala Pentax. Though for the time being, the Olympus system is just right for me.

The one thought that rarely occurs to me while I study a great picture is what camera the photographer used. 

[JV]

Leica is all about a different shooting experience and files that have a separate look.

The Leica M9 IMO provides this.

The Leica M 240 not enough.  The files are too close to other CMOS files from other manufacturers.

Leica needs to get its own look back and hopefully they succeed with the next iteration of the Leica M.

In addition it should also have a built-in EVF with state of the art focus peaking and magnification for the non-rangefinder folks.

If they can pull that off only non-Leica shooters will complain about it being overpriced.