Question for Nikon D810 shooters

[kers]

Maybe fora are made for chatting... This thread served that goal very well…
But since it is about raw conversion i would have liked it if we added some value to try and make the best of some raws images with our own best methods and share the results…
Somehow it did not happen and it is a pity for it would have made this discussion more factual and interesting.

[Hulyss]

The word 'irrelevant' actually came from your comment on workflow. To me workflow is a very important part for me. I agree that you can do as you suggest what is similar to what I commented on as well. But is gets messy and if not needed I would avoid it. So in essence the way I judge using other tools is that the difference they need to make is significant before I would brake the workflow. The reason for that is that my style changes over time, maybe not drastically, but still enough that I go back and reedit some of my best pictures and then it is an advantage that I can see all the edits I have done and if I have done the edits in another tool I can start from scratch (which I do sometimes anyway), however I like to see what I have done and modify from there. But that is the way I work and I'm not trying to convince others to work that way

In term of workflow, I personally find C1 more relevant than Lr simply because of the auto generated, clever file organisation when simply pressed "New session". This simple feature just blown me away.

Maybe fora are made for chatting... This thread served that goal very well…
But since it is about raw conversion i would have liked it if we added some value to try and make the best of some raws images with our own best methods and share the results…
Somehow it did not happen and it is a pity for it would have made this discussion more factual and interesting.

This, Sir, is pointless. We are some here pointing the superior rendering of C1 pro 8 because we just use it constantly, even in conjunction with Lr. The thing is that ppl should draw their own conclusions about it by "testing" the app. Using a raw developer is not easy as every body do have his own cooking technique, his own way to use it to obtain "a personal" rendering.

Some (I'm in it) will never share any development technique with ppl on forum. Maybe when I will be retired, if I'm retired one day. Some just do not want to start on this subject (I'm in it too) because they foresee that it will degenerate in a Lr vs C1 war and we have no damn time nor energy for that, sorry. In +, a professional forum like Lula should not be a bickering place like DP review or whatever. Its a good place made by epicureans for epicureans.

Anyway, we are some here using the D810 on a regular basis for professional/commissioned works, with C1, and some with Lr too. If the OP test both for 30 days he will make his own decision. A "raw converter war" will just confuse him and, directly, his final choice (always doubting).

[kers]

....
This, Sir, is pointless. We are some here pointing the superior rendering of C1 pro 8 because we just use it constantly, even in conjunction with Lr. The thing is that ppl should draw their own conclusions about it by "testing" the app. Using a raw developer is not easy as every body do have his own cooking technique, his own way to use it to obtain "a personal" rendering.
Some (I'm in it) will never share any development technique with ppl on forum. Maybe when I will be retired, if I'm retired one day. Some just do not want to start on this subject (I'm in it too) because they foresee that it will degenerate in a Lr vs C1 war and we have no damn time nor energy for that, sorry. In +, a professional forum like Lula should not be a bickering place like DP review or whatever. Its a good place made by epicureans for epicureans.
...

Hulyss, thank you for your clear answer ...although i do not agree on both statemens. I am out on this one.

[PhotoEcosse]

If the OP test both for 30 days he will make his own decision. A "raw converter war" will just confuse him and, directly, his final choice (always doubting).

Good sense.

I am not interested in "wars" but, generally, I find some opinion from experienced users a decent starting point from which to launch my own tests of alternatives (or, sometimes, to suggest options that I might have completely missed).

But, yes, sometimes, as in this instance, it begins to look like some enthusiasts are merely attempting to justify (perhaps to themselves) the choices that they have already made.

[dwswager]

This is precisely why I prefer ACR  versus C1.  ACR does it my way while C1 and Lightroom both want to me to do it their way!  I don't want to have to IMPORT to anything.  My files are where they are and I want them to stay that way.

In term of workflow, I personally find C1 more relevant than Lr simply because of the auto generated, clever file organisation when simply pressed "New session". This simple feature just blown me away.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

This is precisely why I prefer ACR  versus C1.  ACR does it my way while C1 and Lightroom both want to me to do it their way!

C1 is flexible in the way it creates a structured environment, or not. Your image files can stay where they are.

And where ACR creates sidecar files if one want to preserve the Raw conversion settings, Capture One suggests to put them in a subdirectory (of you choosing) to reduce clutter and facilitate efficient backups.

Cheers,
Bart

[bcooter]

I glanced at this thread and got a laugh.

You d800 boys have been chewing on peeps that own cameras other than a d800 Nikon for like . . . ever.

Now that you've run everybody off with  dr, dxo, charts and mine is bigger than yours stuff, you've turned on each other.

Like those guys stranded in the mountains and run out of food.  

You start looking at your buddy's ankle and sees a BBQ sandwich.

But yes... I forgot... you don't own a D810... What the heck are you doing in this thead???
Bernard

Bernard,

You really say this with a straight face?  

You've posted on every section, almost every thread about cameras you don't own, use, or plan to own and if you couldn't mention that nikon you bought you'd only have 300 posts instead of 8,000.

You guys are funny.

Please go back to vivisecting each other.   This has become interesting.

IMO

BC

[Colorado David]

I just asked a simple question, and I do own a D810, but this is page 4 and anything can happen.

[bcooter]

I just asked a simple question, and I do own a D810, but this is page 4 and anything can happen.

Your right, but you gotta see the humor in this.

I mean it's gone to one guy who charges for seminars slapping around another guy for not processing out the same file in two convertors to "prove" his assertion.

And he wants him to do it for free.

It's funny and makes me believe there just isn't that much difference between these electronic boxes . . . not in the real world.   

I believed for a long time that c-1 processed out dslr files better than lightroom, even went so far as to buy our retouchers c-1 liscense.

They never used them as most professional retouchers process out everything in photoshop, then get to work.

They don't care if it's a Canon or Nikon or a Leica. 

They chuckle at photographers that are obsessed with "ultimate image quality", cause they know with digital serious post production is done in photoshop.

IMO

BC

[Hulyss]

Why so serious BC ? 

[BernardLanguillier]

You really say this with a straight face?  

You've posted on every section, almost every thread about cameras you don't own, use, or plan to own and if you couldn't mention that nikon you bought you'd only have 300 posts instead of 8,000.

James,

I guess that you are not familiar yet with the smiley concept. To your defense it has only been around for less than 10 years.

On your second point, I know this is how you feel as you seem almost obsessed by my ownership of Nikon cameras judging by how often you write about it, but go back and check my actual posting history and show me those posts where I spoke about Nikon cameras in a non relevant context.

Cheers,
Bernard

[bcooter]

Edited.

Very non serious.

I mean don't care, I just think it really is humorous.

Be real.  Since that Nikon came out, it's infested every thread, medium format, 35mm doesn't matter.  

If not Nikon, it's dr or dxo.  In my career I don't think I've heard the "dr" thing mentioned ever in professional conversation.
 
But Bernhard, also be real.  Not just about your posts but about every thread that gets teched to death.

Doesn't anybody notice the amount of good photographers that use to write interesting anecdotes that don't post on this site anymore.

Especially in the medium format area where most of the pros used to go, regardless of the cameras they used?

As somebody said, the tech guys will always finish off every thread.

But everyone's right, it's not worth the effort to talk about it.

I should get back to my pre production.

whew.

insert that silly smiley face thing here.

IMO

BC

[dwswager]

Be real.  Since that Nikon came out, it's infested every thread, medium format, 35mm doesn't matter.  If not Nikon, it's dr or dxo.  In my career I don't think I've heard the "dr" thing mentioned ever in professional conversation.
 
Doesn't anybody notice the amount of good photographers that use to write interesting anecdotes that don't post on this site anymore.  Especially in the medium format area where most of the pros used to go, regardless of the cameras they used?

As somebody said, the tech guys will always finish off every thread.

First, this is the Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear area of the forum which pretty much makes it a tech discussion area.  And photography is part science and part art; both impacted by technology.

As to the Nikon issue, the reason is that like many others before it by many different makers, the Nikon D8x0 cameras broke new ground for DSLRs.  If you doubt that a simple comparison should illustrate.  Canon has been the long time market leader in DSLRs.  The most comparable Canon camera to the D810 is the $3100 5DmkIII which is about 5 year behind in sensor subsystem performance.  My $1000 24MP APS-C D7100 outperforms from a resolution and DR standpoint every Canon Camera.  The fact that the $6000 1Dx is rated just below the $500 D3300 in all sensor areas other than ISO performance is somewhat shocking, especially when you realize that it's poor high ISO performance is a function of the D3300 being 24MP APS-C versus 18MP FF and cheap electronics that $500 buys.

[BernardLanguillier]

James,

This is a thread about D810 raw conversion seeking opinions from D810 shooters, what's the problem with a D810 shooter sharing his opinion about the best raw conversion for the D810?

Really.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Quentin]

DxO Optic Pro 10 does a particularly good job with less than optimum lenses, if the lens / camera combo is supported.    My preferred converter is ACR for all cameras it supports, including the D810 (same basic converter as used in Lightroom of course), but I use DxO occasionally.  

[Hulyss]

But Bernhard, also be real.  

  This much ? 

[michael]

Come on kids....keep it civil.

This is a worthwhile thread and I'd hate to have to shut it down.

Personal jabs must drop to zero, please.

Michael

[Hans Kruse]

This is precisely why I prefer ACR  versus C1.  ACR does it my way while C1 and Lightroom both want to me to do it their way!  I don't want to have to IMPORT to anything.  My files are where they are and I want them to stay that way.

If you learn LR then you will realize that this is not true. The database approach of LR is the reason for the need to import the pictures or more correctly the information about the pictures. The pictures themselves stay where you like them to be either during import and when you might copy manually from where they were (either on a HD or on a cf card). The database approach of LR has many advantages and this approach has also been adopted by Capture One from version 7. In C1 they still have the session approach which does not use a catalog AFAIK.

[Hans Kruse]

I mean it's gone to one guy who charges for seminars slapping around another guy for not processing out the same file in two convertors to "prove" his assertion.

And he wants him to do it for free.

It's funny and makes me believe there just isn't that much difference between these electronic boxes . . . not in the real world. 

It's just such a good example of how things gets twisted on forums. 

Seriously I was interested in differences that I had not seen between LR and C1. I have over the years come across many such claims and I have often checked them. In some cases I have seen a better conversion from another converter than ACR/LR, however judging this against the need to use multiple conversions and have always found that the difference which often was quite small (or could be achieved by more work in LR) was not worth the complexity. Since I use LR on a daily basis and know it very well there may well be parts of another converter that I have used from time to time like C1, that I did not know of or did not realize what else you could achieve. Therefore I felt this was a useful discussion. It turned out that Bernard was not quite serious about this comments which fine with me as long as it is said in the thread.

[dwswager]

If you learn LR then you will realize that this is not true. The database approach of LR is the reason for the need to import the pictures or more correctly the information about the pictures. The pictures themselves stay where you like them to be either during import and when you might copy manually from where they were (either on a HD or on a cf card). The database approach of LR has many advantages and this approach has also been adopted by Capture One from version 7. In C1 they still have the session approach which does not use a catalog AFAIK.

Thanks Hans.  I have the trial of latest Lightroom version downloaded and installed, but have not used it yet.  I intend to try using Lightroom again as it is probably a better tool for my use than Photoshop.  I still struggle with the whole "OK, am I impacting the real file or just the database entry Lightroom is keeping" thing.  It's the same struggle I have with helping my kid's with their iPhones.  Compared to selecting  10GB of music on my server and dragging to my Android phone, having to import to a iTunes library, then using special software to move it to the phone, then having it want to back it all up again.