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Author Topic: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro  (Read 9345 times)

aboudd

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My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« on: December 27, 2014, 04:58:49 pm »

I have been wanting a mid-length tilt and shift lens for both my food and architectural work and was considering the Canon 90MM 2.8 TS-E lens. This lens is of an old film-era design and has certain weaknesses that become apparent with high resolution digital sensors.

I did a review of the Schneider on my blog and of course if you are interested, I invite you to read the full article at www.foto-gizmo.blogspot.com

Here is a summary of the important points of the review.

The Canon lens has a 58MM image circle, the Schneider, 72MM. The Canon is chipped, fully integrated to the Canon bodies. You have use of AE modes if you would like and the lens, as most today do, has an auto-diaphragm, the Schneider does not. You must manually focus the lens with the aperture wide open and then stop down for your exposure. While this may be inconvenient, the nature of the work done with this lens does not require speed. While the Schneider is not chipped and provides no EXIF data, it can be used AE in aperture preferred mode, and auto bracketing of shutter speed can be implemented.

The fit, finish, and build quality of the German made Schneider is near perfect. The adjustment rings feel more robust than the Canon's little knobs and the action is smooth. The lens is in a class by itself and costs 2 1/2 times the price of a new Canon 90MM TS-E. Given what I have seen of the color rendering and resolution, it is worth it.
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jensputzier

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2014, 05:12:42 am »

Very nice to read your review. I have this lens ever since it came out and I would like to add one advantage of the lens: When I switched from Canon to Nikon this year I had to sell all my Zeiss glass and buy it again losing quite some money. With the Schneider I could buy an additional Nikon mount at a reasonable price and can go back to Canon whenever I want.
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aboudd

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2014, 09:00:30 am »

That's a good point. I have a Pentax K-3 as well and I could have an effective 135MM TS lens with use of that mount. Hmmm, this could be very interesting.  ;D
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jim loewen

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2015, 08:23:05 pm »

thank you for your review of the schneider 90mm pc lens. I have rented the cannon 24 ts lens version II. Nice lens bit i hate the knobs. when you shoot landscape in the sierra nevada it is usually cold gloves off gloves on you get the idea. My only thought is this a good landscape lens or is a 90mm to narrow
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NancyP

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2015, 09:24:42 pm »

Only you can tell. What is your most often used focal length for landscape photography?

The TS-E 24 is a popular focal length lens for landscape. I don't yet have T/S. I use a 35mm lens most often, also other FLs. If your goal is "everything in focus including the foreground", a WA T/S lens in tilt mode would do the trick - after all, you have good depth of field already with the WA lens stopped down. If your goal is "product, plant, etc selective focus with other objects blurred", a longer FL T/S lens would be good. Currently for "everything in focus" shots with a non-T/S lens I compromise and pick the most important features that must be in the hyperfocal range, or attempt to focus blend two different focuses from the same camera/tripod position.
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shadowblade

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2015, 05:01:07 am »

How many mm of shift does it provide for?

What's the sharpness (centre and fully shifted edges) like compared with the Canon? What about CA and other aberrations?

Does it take teleconverters, and how well? As in, does it do a good job as a 180mm tilt-shift with a 2x TC?
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jim loewen

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2015, 03:34:54 pm »

Thanks again for the input. i shoot 70-200 2.8 for cropped waterfalls and 35 prime for large landscape. overall i am concerned what is the overall 3 stitch photo with a 90mm pc lens  going to cover anyone ever seen an example thank you in advance
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alan_b

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2015, 04:09:09 pm »

Thanks again for the input. i shoot 70-200 2.8 for cropped waterfalls and 35 prime for large landscape. overall i am concerned what is the overall 3 stitch photo with a 90mm pc lens  going to cover anyone ever seen an example thank you in advance

12mm max shift
3 frame stitch will yield a virtual sensor size of 36x48mm

90mm lens on 36x48mm sensor gives:
37˚ diagonal angle of view
30˚ hor
23˚ vert

Since the stitched image will be 3:4 proportions (uncropped) comparison depends on whether you compare the long or short edge.
On a 24x36mm sensor:
68mm lens gives a 30˚ angle of view on the long side
59mm lens gives a 23˚ angle of view on the short side

Note that a 3-frame stitch with the Schneider is different than with a Canon or Nikon.
C/N: Shoot center. Shift lens left, shoot. shift lens right, shoot. (Counter-shift body in tripod clamp for each position)
Schneider: Shoot center. Shift lens left, shoot. Rotate lens to right, counter-rotate body left, shoot.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 04:13:52 pm by alan_b »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2015, 07:22:19 pm »

Thanks again for the input. i shoot 70-200 2.8 for cropped waterfalls and 35 prime for large landscape. overall i am concerned what is the overall 3 stitch photo with a 90mm pc lens  going to cover anyone ever seen an example thank you in advance

If I may ask, why are you interested in doing stitching with such a lens?

On what accounts do you expect superior results compared to what you'd get with a spherical pano head?

Cheers,
Bernard

shadowblade

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2015, 07:55:41 pm »

If I may ask, why are you interested in doing stitching with such a lens?

On what accounts do you expect superior results compared to what you'd get with a spherical pano head?

Cheers,
Bernard


When you need to tilt for depth of field while shifting to create the panorama.

Can't do that with a rotational pano.
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jim loewen

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2015, 08:12:37 pm »

I thank you for your question. When i am shooting in the sierras i only have room for two superb lenses al the usuall stuff including my really right stuff carbon tripod. i am typically hiking at night to get the first light. adding a pano head hiking through the woods just does not work. If i can shoot traditionl ts lens and stitch when necessary i have the best of both worlds.Well thats the plan. Wright now i have 16-35 2.8   200 prime  35 prime   70-200 2.8 so i have to choose my weapon of choice. thank you jim
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2015, 06:09:45 am »

When you need to tilt for depth of field while shifting to create the panorama.

Can't do that with a rotational pano.

That's indeed one application that makes sense, although it only applies to a subset of lanscape images.

It is in fact possible to mix tilt and spherical stitching, or to apply DoF stacking when the subject where extended DoF is requied is not a plane.

Cheers,
Bernard

Chris_Brown

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2015, 10:45:28 am »

Nice review, Aboud. This paragraph says it all:

Quote
. . . The $1,400 the 90MM Canon TS-E 2.8 lens is compact, lightweight lens at  3 X 3.5", 1 1/4 pounds. The Schneider PC TS 90MM is about 4.25 X 5.5 inches, not compact at all and weighs in at almost 2 1/2 pounds. It is also more than double the price of the Canon at $3,180. The Schneider, available in several mounts, is a fully manual, unchipped lens. It does not communicate with the camera. There is no automatic diaphragm, so light measuring has to be done stopped down. While not as slow to work with as a technical camera, it is a bear if you like the speed and efficiency of the Canon or Nikon lenses. All this doesn't sound like an attractive alternative until you see the images. The  German made Schneider PC TS Makro-Symmar 90MM 4.5 lens is in a class by itself.

I rented both the Schneider 50mm PC TS and the 90mm PC TS a few years ago, in search of something better than Canon's offering. The optical quality of both lenses is superior to Canon's offering, for sure; no fringing, clean corners when shifted/tilted, etc. However, for almost three times the price (Canon's lenses were $1100 at the time) I felt the Schneider lenses should at least provide aperture data to the camera, and this was a deal-breaker for me.

It may seem trivial, but when working outside/on location I rely heavily on the aperture exposure data when evaluating images and found browsing dozens of images with no aperture info very frustrating. In a studio/tethered workflow this is not much of an issue, though.

I also shoot some scenes at f2.8 on my Canon lenses when I want soft focus to be a visual component to the image. Call it a nit, but I prefered the images I shot at f2.8 over the Schneider f4.5 images.

Much of my work requires the sensor plane to be vertical and the Schneider lens/collar mount made it very tedious to get. I didn't try to mount the camera to the tripod as the lens is very heavy and, being a rental, decided to stick to using the collar mount. Do you always mount the lens to the tripod? Or do you sometimes mount the camera to the tripod and let that 2.5lbs. lens hang out there?
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jim loewen

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2015, 01:10:10 pm »

thank you for your insight. i always mount the lens to the tripod. 1 because of the weight 2 it keeps me from acidentally bumping the tripod. now as far as the cannon ts lenses . the 90 and 45 are old lenses not made for high resolution images like what the schneider produces. This is very important with the new release of cannons 5d sr I wish cannon would update these lenses and get rid of those nobs. Now as far as information from the lens to the camera, i started out witha a mamiya 7 II i just use a voice recorder and put this information in manually. This is not ideally the best situation but these lenses are not weather proof or dust proof i think it would be very easy to damage the contacts. If you look in the back end of the cannon 24 II series ts you can look wright into the circuit board that bothers me dust and weather are the conditions i am in all the time

jim
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Chris_Brown

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2015, 01:48:03 pm »

I wish cannon would update these lenses and get rid of those nobs.

I agree. Rumor has it that Canon has put the 45mm & 90mm into their refresh cycle.
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jim loewen

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2015, 02:45:09 pm »

have you had any exsposure to the schneider 50mm ts lens. some people seem to like it others say it is soft on the edges
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Chris_Brown

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2015, 04:34:26 pm »

Yes, I rented one at the same time I rented the 90mm. It was much sharper than Canon's 45mm TSE, with less color fringing and aberrations in the corners. I highly recommend renting one. It's a completely different workflow than a Canon TSE lens.
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jim loewen

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2015, 05:09:54 pm »

thanks most reviews downgrade the 50 and praise the 90mm so i may try both
be safe shoot more jim
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Chris_Brown

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2015, 07:11:55 pm »

Well, optically it isn't a "downgrade" from the current Canon 45mm TS-E. It offers excellent optical results. It'd be a solid upgrade if you can handle the "Schneider PC TS workflow".
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 07:18:59 pm by Chris_Brown »
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jim loewen

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Re: My review of the Schneider PC TS 90MM 4.5 Makro
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2015, 09:44:03 pm »

thank you everyone for your input once i rent the lens i will share the results
jim
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