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Author Topic: canon ?  (Read 45168 times)

jeremyrh

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #180 on: December 30, 2014, 09:32:08 am »

Tell that to PODAS.

Hmm, well, that's clearly a bit different - surely anyone going on a PODAS workshop knows that the name of the game is to instill gear envy. However, that said, I haven't been on a PODAS workshop with Hans, but I'd be astonished(*) if he promoted Phase One gear on the workshops he instructs for them.

(*) For the non-British, this means that it simply doesn't happen.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #181 on: December 30, 2014, 09:34:24 am »

This thread has reached ridiculous heights in non sequiturs, strawman arguments, and true but irrelevant statements by the anti-tech Taliban ;)

Hans Kruse

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #182 on: December 30, 2014, 10:04:50 am »

Hans, no, I've no idea what approach you take. I should perhaps add that the PODAS workshops aren't alone in promoting gear acquisition, much the same happens on the workshops that are associated with Hasselblad.

I have no idea why you came up with the suggestion that workshop leaders will time on promoting gear on their workshops, except if is a vendor sponsored workshop as mentioned. I never heard about gear promotions on workshops. It just does not make any sense to me.

dwswager

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #183 on: December 30, 2014, 10:20:22 am »

I feel for those who fall for the conceit that using the latest and greatest is going to make the difference. I accept it's in the interests of sites such as this and those who run workshops to promote gear acquisition and take the line that it will change their punter's lives.  

I actually feel sorry for those that don't seem to understand what they can gain from addition Megapixels, DR, Colors, and high ISO performance.  While the performance of the D810 sensor can show weaknesses in technique and even lenses, it also provides forgiveness and options for cropping, framing and exposure.

While a D810 won't make me into Art Wolfe it does make me a better me.  As it would make Art Wolfe a better Art Wolfe.  Anyone want to argue that 5DmkIII shooters wound't do back flips if Canon handed them a 5DmkIV with 30MP, 15 EV DR, expanded color palette and significantly better high ISO performance and less noise.

I bought the D810 because I wanted to get off the upgrade merry go round.  When shooting film, one could take advantages in new emulsions and substrates without having to upgrade.  With DSLRs you are buying a performance ceiling.  It was the 1st camera that had a performance level at which I believe I would be satisfied to be 'stuck' at even though I know there will be performance and feature advances that will make cameras better than the D810.
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Hans Kruse

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #184 on: December 30, 2014, 10:38:54 am »

I actually feel sorry for those that don't seem to understand what they can gain from addition Megapixels, DR, Colors, and high ISO performance.  While the performance of the D810 sensor can show weaknesses in technique and even lenses, it also provides forgiveness and options for cropping, framing and exposure.

While a D810 won't make me into Art Wolfe it does make me a better me.  As it would make Art Wolfe a better Art Wolfe.  Anyone want to argue that 5DmkIII shooters wound't do back flips if Canon handed them a 5DmkIV with 30MP, 15 EV DR, expanded color palette and significantly better high ISO performance and less noise.

I bought the D810 because I wanted to get off the upgrade merry go round.  When shooting film, one could take advantages in new emulsions and substrates without having to upgrade.  With DSLRs you are buying a performance ceiling.  It was the 1st camera that had a performance level at which I believe I would be satisfied to be 'stuck' at even though I know there will be performance and feature advances that will make cameras better than the D810.

Would you mind sharing a link to your website showing your pictures?

Hans Kruse

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #185 on: December 30, 2014, 11:09:04 am »

I've already said that my reference to gear acquisition and workshops was in turn a reference to the PODAS and Hasselblad associated workshops. Does stating it again make it any clearer?

Yes, now you clearly state what you omitted in post #181. Then what was the purpose of mentioning workshops in #181 if you meant vendor workshops where it is clear for the attendees that they are going to be approached with a sales person who would like to convince them to buy a medium format camera? Why do you feel sorry for them? They don't go into the workshop with blinders do they?

What I was offended about (organizing workshops myself) was that you omitted that you meant vendor workshops. That's a very small minority of workshops.

Hans Kruse

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #186 on: December 30, 2014, 11:32:30 am »

You want me to feel guilty about your misunderstanding?

There was no misunderstanding, only lack of clarity in your responses.

jeremyrh

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #187 on: December 30, 2014, 11:38:40 am »

You want me to feel guilty about your misunderstanding?

He didn't "misunderstand". You wrote "I accept it's in the interests of [...] those who run workshops to promote gear acquisition", which is clear enough. Now you are trying to backpedal away from your accusation. Don't waste your time - nobody's fooled.
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DeanChriss

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #188 on: December 30, 2014, 11:38:56 am »

I actually feel sorry for those that don't seem to understand what they can gain from addition Megapixels, DR, Colors, and high ISO performance.  While the performance of the D810 sensor can show weaknesses in technique and even lenses, it also provides forgiveness and options for cropping, framing and exposure.

While a D810 won't make me into Art Wolfe it does make me a better me.  As it would make Art Wolfe a better Art Wolfe.

...

That last part could be true in a fantasy world where high speed wildlife sequences are shot at single-digit frame rates using cameras with sluggish focus acquisition relative to cameras like a D4s or 1DX.
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Rhossydd

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #189 on: December 30, 2014, 11:50:58 am »

I actually feel sorry for those that don't seem to understand what they can gain from addition Megapixels, DR, Colors, and high ISO performance.
You really don't seem to get the idea here. We DO know what advantages there are from all the latest numbers. What you fail to appreciate is that for many people the new numbers aren't something spending the extra money on.
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John Koerner

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #190 on: December 30, 2014, 11:53:04 am »

I actually feel sorry for those that don't seem to understand what they can gain from addition Megapixels, DR, Colors, and high ISO performance.  While the performance of the D810 sensor can show weaknesses in technique and even lenses, it also provides forgiveness and options for cropping, framing and exposure.

This could be a form of boundary disorder, wouldn't you say?



While a D810 won't make me into Art Wolfe it does make me a better me.  As it would make Art Wolfe a better Art Wolfe.  Anyone want to argue that 5DmkIII shooters wound't do back flips if Canon handed them a 5DmkIV with 30MP, 15 EV DR, expanded color palette and significantly better high ISO performance and less noise.

This is the part where you're seriously failing to understand. What makes Art Wolfe "Art Wolfe" is the fact he's actually out there, in key places, capturing images of fantastic subjects ... it's not because of "what camera he has." You may have a technically-superior sensor in your camera, but you will never be an Art Wolfe because you're not constantly out there, traveling, exploring, experimenting, creating.

As one member said, "If you can't produce a compelling image from a 7 year old camera, you can't produce a compelling image."



I bought the D810 because I wanted to get off the upgrade merry go round.  When shooting film, one could take advantages in new emulsions and substrates without having to upgrade.  With DSLRs you are buying a performance ceiling.  It was the 1st camera that had a performance level at which I believe I would be satisfied to be 'stuck' at even though I know there will be performance and feature advances that will make cameras better than the D810.

All of which is worth nothing, if you're not prepared to go out into the world and actually use it on fascinating subjects ... or if you can't capture ordinary subjects in a fascinating way.

The part you don't understand is if a person can/does do the above, they have something more valuable to their photography than the latest camera.

Jack
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jeremyrh

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #191 on: December 30, 2014, 12:02:36 pm »

This could be a form of boundary disorder, wouldn't you say?



This is the part where you're seriously failing to understand. What makes Art Wolfe "Art Wolfe" is the fact he's actually out there, in key places, capturing images of fantastic subjects ... it's not because of "what camera he has." You may have a technically-superior sensor in your camera, but you will never be an Art Wolfe because you're not constantly out there, traveling, exploring, experimenting, creating.

As one member said, "If you can't produce a compelling image from a 7 year old camera, you can't produce a compelling image."



All of which is worth nothing, if you're not prepared to go out into the world and actually use it on fascinating subjects ... or if you can't capture ordinary subjects in a fascinating way.

The part you don't understand is if a person can/does do the above, they have something more valuable to their photography than the latest camera.

Jack
Eh?  Nothing he wrote contradicts that. He never said anything remotely like that any amount of technology would make him an Art Wolfe.
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dwswager

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #192 on: December 30, 2014, 12:17:19 pm »

That last part could be true in a fantasy world where high speed wildlife sequences are shot at single-digit frame rates using cameras with sluggish focus acquisition relative to cameras like a D4s or 1DX.

While the D810 does not have the frame rate or throughput ideally suited to fast action sequences, it does have the same focus system as the D4.  And since I learned to shoot with finger winder and manual focus, I find 5-7 fps reasonably fast.

It is interesting to me that folks are willing to argue that on one hand, image quality enhancements don't matter, but on the other functional performance enhancements are absolutely critical.  While the truth is both quality and functional improvements matter, but the situations in which either matter is a small subset of the entire universe of photo making opportunities.  Diminishing returns kick in.

Considering this thread started with a question asked in the 1st post and answered in the 2nd post, I wonder what to make of the fact that this thread is now some 12 pages long.
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Colorado David

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #193 on: December 30, 2014, 12:19:25 pm »

I realize this is a euphemistic line of arguing, but I would never want to be an Art Wolfe, nor anyone else.  I want to be the best me that I can be.  Otherwise it's just a cheap copy of an original.

dwswager

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #194 on: December 30, 2014, 12:33:48 pm »

I realize this is a euphemistic line of arguing, but I would never want to be an Art Wolfe, nor anyone else.  I want to be the best me that I can be.  Otherwise it's just a cheap copy of an original.

+1  Though I would be an expensive, smart-ass copy of the original.  Besides, I think I would prefer to be a copy of John Shaw since I'm more landscape and he gets to shoot with better cameras.  :P
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DeanChriss

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #195 on: December 30, 2014, 12:35:57 pm »

While the D810 does not have the frame rate or throughput ideally suited to fast action sequences, it does have the same focus system as the D4.  And since I learned to shoot with finger winder and manual focus, I find 5-7 fps reasonably fast.

It is interesting to me that folks are willing to argue that on one hand, image quality enhancements don't matter, but on the other functional performance enhancements are absolutely critical.  While the truth is both quality and functional improvements matter, but the situations in which either matter is a small subset of the entire universe of photo making opportunities.  Diminishing returns kick in.

Considering this thread started with a question asked in the 1st post and answered in the 2nd post, I wonder what to make of the fact that this thread is now some 12 pages long.

The point I was trying to make is that the same person arguing that DR and megapixels are of the utmost importance is in effect saying the frame rate and focus acquisition speed don't matter. I find that ironic. FWIW, cameras like the D4s and 1DX have battery packs with a higher voltage to, among other things, drive heavy focusing elements in super-tele lenses faster.
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dwswager

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #196 on: December 30, 2014, 12:41:34 pm »

The point I was trying to make is that the same person arguing that DR and megapixels are of the utmost importance is in effect saying the frame rate and focus acquisition speed don't matter. I find that ironic. FWIW, cameras like the D4s and 1DX have battery packs with a higher voltage to, among other things, drive heavy focusing elements in super-tele lenses faster.

Don't recall arguing that frame rate or focus acquisition/tracking don't matter.  I did not buy the D810 looking for a high speed, wildlife or sports camera.  I bought it as an all-purpose camera I would be happy to keep for an extended period of time.  While I would certainly be happy to have more fps than 5, I can live with it, even with the sports I shoot.   And I think Nikon is stupid not to have an 8-10 frame 24MP DX sensor camera to compete directly with the 7DmkII.
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Rhossydd

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #197 on: December 30, 2014, 12:52:57 pm »

Until this thread I was unaware of both Hans Kruse and his workshops.
I odn't know how you missed Hans over the years. He may not be the most prolific poster on LuLa, but the images he posts here almost define the idea of a Luminous Landscape.
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DeanChriss

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #198 on: December 30, 2014, 01:00:35 pm »

Don't recall arguing that frame rate or focus acquisition/tracking don't matter.  I did not buy the D810 looking for a high speed, wildlife or sports camera.  I bought it as an all-purpose camera I would be happy to keep for an extended period of time.  While I would certainly be happy to have more fps than 5, I can live with it, even with the sports I shoot.   And I think Nikon is stupid not to have an 8-10 frame 24MP DX sensor camera to compete directly with the 7DmkII.

FWIW, I actually agree with a lot of what you say. I was referring specifically to the statement that a D810 "...would make Art Wolfe a better Art Wolfe", and the fact he shoots lots of wildlife action at 12 FPS with one of the fastest AF systems in existence. All the DR in the world is of no use if you can't capture the image in the first place.

Happy New Year!
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Hans Kruse

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Re: canon ?
« Reply #199 on: December 30, 2014, 01:04:04 pm »

+1  Though I would be an expensive, smart-ass copy of the original.  Besides, I think I would prefer to be a copy of John Shaw since I'm more landscape and he gets to shoot with better cameras.  :P

I have asked before, but I can't wait to see some of your images, especially landscape.
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