Can Peter Lik share his client list?

[John Koerner]

It would not matter if he shared his client list. What saddens about all this and I am not a nature photographer is all the great work that is done by guys who stay unknown  but this guys work sells big because of his name. Liks work and yes I have some some in person is boring. In the fine art world it is not about the work all too often but who you know.

I remember a fellow in a famous band (I think it was John Taylor of Duran-Duran) who said, of his talent as a musician, "I have decent talent, but I am certainly not the best base player out there. I see these amazing musicians in dive bars. Awesome talent. They can do things I never could to. But they don't know what a hit song is. They will never make it big. The members of our band were chosen as much for our looks and our hairstyles, as for our talent, and we know what the public wants to hear and see."

I think maybe this same passage might apply to some of you photographers who denounce Peter Lik.
Perhaps "his name" sells big, because he knows what a hit photo is.
While some of you may have talent, maybe it's the kind of talent that can only be appreciated by other photographers, not the public
Could it possibly be (as I originally posted above) that it's in the whole package, not just the photographic talent?

Maybe some of you are "amazing photographers," but are still in a dive bar because of the same reasons outlined in the above passage: you don't have a clue what a "hit song" is.

Be honest, even selling multiple single images in the $20,000-$40,000 range is great. How many of you do this?
Other record-breakers don't always make record-breaking sales; they just make one.

The fact Lik has sold other pieces in the top 10 means he's always a contender to do what he did.

So yes, I think it's jealousy. Plain and simple.

Jack

[amolitor]

Peter Lik churns out fine examples of work of a kind any number of others churn out. His pictures are indistinguishable from many other photographers.

What he's done is he's gotten a little lucky, and he's done some fantastic work in building a business. Am I jealous? Not a bit. I could absolutely do what he's done. All is have to do is sell my soul and work 90 hour weeks for the next 30 years, and I too could be in charge of a business with many millions in revenue and probably quite modest profits - at best.

Good for him. Sure. He's a fine businessman. I know many of them. I know how to pay that game. And I have consciously chosen another path because I have seen the costs.

Seriously. Drop the jealousy line. It's insulting.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Peter Lik has won numerous competitions, several of which I've seen. Those competitions were supposed to be anonymous. Unless, of course, we also claim that he had the organizers in his pocket.

[jeremyrh]

I could absolutely do what he's done.

Me too. Once I get finished with my best-selling novel and my professional football career.

Now, just time for a little nap ....

[John Koerner]

Peter Lik churns out fine examples of work of a kind any number of others churn out. His pictures are indistinguishable from many other photographers.
What he's done is he's gotten a little lucky, and he's done some fantastic work in building a business. Am I jealous? Not a bit. I could absolutely do what he's done. All is have to do is sell my soul and work 90 hour weeks for the next 30 years, and I too could be in charge of a business with many millions in revenue and probably quite modest profits - at best.
Good for him. Sure. He's a fine businessman. I know many of them. I know how to pay that game. And I have consciously chosen another path because I have seen the costs.
Seriously. Drop the jealousy line. It's insulting.

Drop the "I could absolutely do what he's done" thing.
It's embarrassing. Seriously.

And also drop the thing where you think you're in a position to tell me what to do. You're not there either.

[John Koerner]

All is have to do is sell my soul and work ...

I have consciously chosen another path because I have seen the costs.

That pretty much clears the air of everything, doesn't it?

Jack

[B-Ark]

The way that I look at it - there are 3 kinds of people in this world:
 - some would pay 6.5M for the print under discussion
 - some invest in all those fine offers we receive in Nigerian emails
 - all the others

[amolitor]

All I am claiming, Slobodan, is that Lik has a modicum of talent, and one hell of a work ethic. It's perfectly possible, don't you think, to win contests largely through hard work?

You get out there. You take a lot of photos. You pay attention. You pay attention to detail. You make the investment in great gear, in travel, in time, in printing. If one has a modest talent, and one works very hard, as Peter Lik has done, surely many people here could win competitions fair and square.

Whether it be Art or Decor, a common thread in success is hard work. Too many people think and say that talent is the key, and then they have an excuse. 'I'm just not as talented as Lik or Warhol or Cunningham. That's why I'm not a successful artist.'

Lik's success is 95% work, 4% talent, and 1% luck. Or something like that. And it's the same for many a successful artist.

Me? I don't want to work that hard. I feed my family for a great deal less effort in my current gig. Plus I get to take pictures for fun and I don't have to give a damn about marketability.

[amolitor]

I don't know what Jack is on about but for non native English speakers:

'Sell my soul' in this context is an idiomatic expression meaning roughly to make a long term commitment to a task or role which is unpleasant, for money, profit, or survival.

[John Koerner]

Me? I don't want to work that hard.

Like I said, that clears the air of everything.

I feed my family for a great deal less effort in my current gig. Plus I get to take pictures for fun and I don't have to give a damn about marketability.

Rats feed their families, so what? Anyone can do that.

And anyone can take pictures for fun.

As I said in my opening post here, what Lik has accomplished takes technical skill + artistic vision + marketing genius (hard work constantly getting your stuff in front of "the right eyes" ...)

You're essentially saying the same thing I'm saying.
But instead admiring the man for the success wrought from his hard work, you're trying to put yourself on some sort of "higher moral ground" because you don't want to work as hard ...

You're also @$$uming you could achieve the same level of success, which is a knee-slapper really. Lots of people work hard who don't.

I don't know what Jack is on about but for non native English speakers:
'Sell my soul' in this context is an idiomatic expression meaning roughly to make a long term commitment to a task or role which is unpleasant, for money, profit, or survival.

The question isn't what I am on, the question is what are you on?

Have you ever considered the possibility that Lik loves his work, and works so hard for this reason as well?

There are worse ways to make a living than traveling the world, taking beautiful photos, and selling them for tens of thousands (and sometimes millions) of dollars.

Jack

[amolitor]

Well it's nice that we agree. Not sure why you're being so acrimonious. Perhaps I am simply misreading though, this is the internet after all.

[John Koerner]

Well it's nice that we agree. Not sure why you're being so acrimonious. Perhaps I am simply misreading though, this is the internet after all.

I could swear I never even addressed you, originally, but that it was you who first became that way toward me.

A quick review of the progression of this thread ought to clear the air of that too.

Jack

[amolitor]

Oh dear, are you interpreting my "drop the jealous thing" as a personal attack?

It was a generally directed remark, given the "you're just jealous" argument has appeared quite a bit on this site in one thread or another. I see, upon review, that you were the only person to use it in this thread prior to my remark, a fact I did not at the time note.

I might just as well take your "whiner" and "just jealous" remarks as a personal attack on me.

However, if you felt it a personal attack, which you are in hindsight justified in seeing it as, you have my apology. It was not intended as such, but I see that it could easily have been read as such.

[James Clark]

Peter Lik has won numerous competitions, several of which I've seen. Those competitions were supposed to be anonymous. Unless, of course, we also claim that he had the organizers in his pocket.

Yeah - I do think the man has a bit of talent.  If nothing else, he has a definite eye for clean, simple composition that is accessible and easy to enjoy.  I realize this sounds like a backhanded compliment, but it's not at all - it's a skill that I both struggle with an admire greatly.  He has it, and though their finished products couldn't be more different, Kenna has it too.  The trick, which I think both of them have mastered, is knowing what to leave out. 

Leaving all the controversial post-processig aside (the colors, the oversatration), his marketing/gallerist/retail consultants are also masterful at packaging an presenting the product.

Bottim line for me is that, regardless of his photographic talent, he's apparently built a viable *brand* around photography and art, and I think that is admirable.   That said, I do think that this latest marketing stunt is a little wonky, because  I just don't understand the valuation.  Yes, there's the idea that something is worth whatever someone will pay for it, but even one-off Ferraris approved and built in house for special collectors sometimes don't go as high as this monochromed adaptation of a previous print.  It's not that I think he's a fraud on the whole, it's that this specific transaction sends up a lot of flags for a variety of reason.

[telyt]

Selling photography involves both photography and selling.

[Misirlou]

So which should we respect more: diligence (work), or talent (an innate quality, based perhaps on one's genetics?)?

Should we celebrate the supermodel, or instead the super saleswoman? One owes success to having been born with a particular set of genes, while the other may have worked and sacrificed for a lifetime.

I've seen some really stunning shots produced by photographers just starting out. In galleries, I see huge prices on pieces that I don't like nearly as well. Which has "talent?"

Often, the photos I sell are not the ones I particularly prefer among my own work. Are they still "art?" I don't know.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Me too. Once I get finished with my best-selling novel and my professional football career.

Now, just time for a little nap ....

Hehe... So true... especially the nap part.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Lik's success is 95% work, 4% talent, and 1% luck. Or something like that. And it's the same for many a successful artist...

Someone famous also said: "Success/creativity/genius is 1 percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration." Then there is this: "F/8 and be there." Then again: "80 percent of success is just showing up."

So, what are we ridiculing Peter Lik for? Lack of talent? Or "perspiration" (i.e., hard work)? Or for just showing up and being there? Or are we ridiculing success itself? And all that while we go to take a nap?

The only thing that I find questionable is the over-the-top selling/marketing techniques. Then again, who's to blame for that? The public that falls for it? Or the one who apparently just understands well what the public wants? Let's not forget that some of the most successful products in the history of mankind are quite idiotic in itself (imho, of course): gum that bubbles and bubbly sugared water; video games glorifying criminals and mass killings; etc., etc.

[Isaac]

In Ansel Adams at 100 John Szarkowski noted that the unknown Ansel Adams became the very well known photographer, producer of books of his work and educator and proselytizer for photography - thanks to his prodigious energy.

[amolitor]

I'm not ridiculing Peter Lik for anything.

I think his work is rather thin, but so what? That is, if anything, by intention. You don't sell thousands of prints of moody concept art. So that's just an irrelevant opinion. I suspect that his marketing is a bit stunt-oriented, and I have heard 2nd or 3rd hard that his sales techniques are moderately obnoxious, and have no reason to doubt it.

He's obviously worked very hard to get where he is, and I certainly respect that. I wouldn't want any part of his life, but that is, once again, merely a personal opinion.

The only topic that seems of any import is whether there is any credibility to his high-dollar-amount private sales, and there doesn't seem to be anything to say even there except "well, it seems dubious".