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Author Topic: Gloomy Camera Sales News  (Read 5883 times)

BJL

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Re: Gloomy Camera Sales News
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2014, 09:39:33 pm »

There still as I understand it quite a lot higher, what I think you dealing with is a shift from people buying a new DSLR every 2-3 years to people buying one every 5-6 years when more significant advancements have been made where as in the film era is might have been more like once every 10-12 years.
yes, that is a quite plausable and less gloomy explanation.

By the way, phones cannot replace system cameras in one important respect: lens choices for telephoto reach and handling low light and/or the need for high shutter speeds: for that, there is no substitute for large front elements (or to be pedantic, large entrance pupil diameter), so lenses that do those jobs well will never fit into a phone, or most pockets. But for the vast majority of what actually used to be done with consumer level SLRs (and a single lens, most often), pocketable phone-camera-computers are getting to be good enough.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 10:07:44 pm by BJL »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Gloomy Camera Sales News
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2014, 10:15:42 pm »

Hi,

I would be pretty sure that the volume market has been washed away by phone cams. That's what folks carry all day, and they are perfectly capable for a wide range of needs. Let us not forget that full HD is about 2 MP and most images are displayed much smaller than HD.

Now, there will always be photographers striving for more quality, but also the flexibility of interchangeable lens cameras (ILC). And, we still have folks shooting film, even large format film.

I would also say that the ILC market is probably a bit saturated, but I still see some potential for growth.

  • Photographers moving upscale from say phone cams to ILCs
  • Photographers moving from APS-C to full frame systems. Margins are higher for full frames.
  • There will be a transition from DSLR to mirrorless
  • There will be new technologies making photography more attractive

Personally, the technology that was most important for me was live view, that I can use for exact manual focus. I bought three cameras just because of that single feature.

Video is also a great addition for me, but I feel there is much to do on that side. I got the impression that Panasonic has great video done the right way.

There is of course a giant market in Asia, something like four billion customers in China and India. Being to able to sell to those markets may be the key to survival.

Best regards
Erik


yes, that is a quite plausable and less gloomy explanation.

By the way, phones cannot replace system cameras in one important respect: lens choices for telephoto reach and handling low light and/or the need for high shutter speeds: for that, there is no substitute for large front elements (or to be pedantic, large entrance pupil diameter), so lenss that do those jobs well will never fit into a phone. But for the vast majority of what actually used to be done with consumer level SLRs (and a single lens, most often), pocketable phone-camera-computers are getting to be good enough.
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Erik Kaffehr
 

dwswager

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Re: Gloomy Camera Sales News
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2014, 11:02:48 pm »

Personally, the technology that was most important for me was live view, that I can use for exact manual focus. I bought three cameras just because of that single feature.

Video is also a great addition for me, but I feel there is much to do on that side. I got the impression that Panasonic has great video done the right way.

There is of course a giant market in Asia, something like four billion customers in China and India. Being to able to sell to those markets may be the key to survival.

Best regards
Erik

I 2nd the Live View draw.  In addition, I just upgrade from APS-C to Full Frame myself, though I will keep the D7100 for various tasks.

Video does nothing for me.  I would prefer my Nikons not have video.  I find purpose built video cameras far outperform in quality and efficiency.

China and India are definitely gigantic markets as wealth pushes down and the middle class grows.  I bought Tata Motors (TTM) stock during the recent financial crisis on the prospects of increased sales in their home market.  Stock has shown this growth from $5 a share to $45 today.  Though they also made Jaguar profitable...go figure!
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joneil

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Re: Gloomy Camera Sales News
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2014, 09:26:28 am »


China and India are definitely gigantic markets as wealth pushes down and the middle class grows.  I bought Tata Motors (TTM) stock during the recent financial crisis on the prospects of increased sales in their home market.  Stock has shown this growth from $5 a share to $45 today.  Though they also made Jaguar profitable...go figure!

 I agree completely with that one.  I subscribe to "Smart Photography" (via e-edition, Zinio), the big photo magazine out of India, all in english.  Well written, and i kinda like how the other side of the world "sees" things a wee bit different in terms of photography.    But back to your statement, you read that magazine, and you can see for sure that India is a huge, growing market.  China and India are what - about one billion people each, yes, lots of potential.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Gloomy Camera Sales News
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2014, 09:55:11 am »

I often present my images as slide shows. Mixing stills and motion has a great impact. But, for that to work, motion needs to have same IQ as stills.

Best regards
Erik



I 2nd the Live View draw.  In addition, I just upgrade from APS-C to Full Frame myself, though I will keep the D7100 for various tasks.

Video does nothing for me.  I would prefer my Nikons not have video.  I find purpose built video cameras far outperform in quality and efficiency.

China and India are definitely gigantic markets as wealth pushes down and the middle class grows.  I bought Tata Motors (TTM) stock during the recent financial crisis on the prospects of increased sales in their home market.  Stock has shown this growth from $5 a share to $45 today.  Though they also made Jaguar profitable...go figure!
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Erik Kaffehr
 

eronald

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Re: Gloomy Camera Sales News
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2014, 01:47:09 am »

I often present my images as slide shows. Mixing stills and motion has a great impact. But, for that to work, motion needs to have same IQ as stills.

Best regards
Erik





I'm using a GH4. The 4K movies have perceptual presence and sharpness at least as good as any still camera I have used.
Movies can have a subjective sharpness in excess of the MF of each frame.
I am quite certain that the GH4 image can project on a "real" cinema screen with no issues. In fact I am going to schedule a test projection in a movie theatre.

Edmund
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 01:50:14 am by eronald »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Gloomy Camera Sales News
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2014, 02:02:04 am »

Hi,

It seems the GH3 using 1080P was good enough for the job:
http://www.zacuto.com/shootout-revenge-2012/revenge-of-the-great-camera-shootout-part-three

4K raises the bar quite a bit, I would guess. Saving money for a 4K projector…

Best regards
Erik


I'm using a GH4. The 4K movies have perceptual presence and sharpness at least as good as any still camera I have used.
Movies can have a subjective sharpness in excess of the MF of each frame.
I am quite certain that the GH4 image can project on a "real" cinema screen with no issues. In fact I am going to schedule a test projection in a movie theatre.

Edmund
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eronald

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Re: Gloomy Camera Sales News
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2014, 05:35:58 am »

At the moment the GH4 and possibly the Samsung NX1 probably win the bang for buck stakes.
The NX1 has the better paper specs, the GH4 is a known quantity. Each of these bodies costs about as much as an MF lenscap :)

Edmund

Hi,

It seems the GH3 using 1080P was good enough for the job:
http://www.zacuto.com/shootout-revenge-2012/revenge-of-the-great-camera-shootout-part-three

4K raises the bar quite a bit, I would guess. Saving money for a 4K projector…

Best regards
Erik

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BJL

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Gloomy Camera Sales News: good for innovation?
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2014, 12:27:21 am »

The gloomy ILC sales news is potentially good news for us, if it forces camera makers to pursue technological innovations more genuinely appealing than increases in the usable ISO speed and MP count.
Personally, the technology that was most important for me was live view, that I can use for exact manual focus.
I agree, as do quite a few people around here, it seems.

It seems that an important current strategy for camera makers wanting to revive sales in the more profitable ILC market is making the AF in non-SLRs competitive with the best SLR AF systems, as with current progress in on-sensor PDAF. Canon and Nikon are both working on that, so I expect them to offer higher level non-SLRs soon, to help revive body and lens sales.

Hopefully, the next plans for driving sales will include getting EVFs to the point of negligible lag, and with handling of low light and high SBR on a par with good OVFs.


P. S. How are ILC lens sales? If they are not declining the way ILC body sales are, that would support the idea that the body sales slowdown is mostly being past "peak upgrade mania".
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 12:36:51 am by BJL »
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