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Author Topic: archival properties - paper ink permanence info  (Read 21418 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: archival properties - paper ink permanence info
« Reply #100 on: April 06, 2015, 09:13:56 am »

............ I don't believe that manufacturer sponsored fee-for-service testing contracts or licensed product "certifications"  are the way to fund this research for obvious reasons.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com


No question it can be a slippery slope for what you say are obvious reasons. I would, however, add just three observations: (1) exactly because there is no ISO standard, the field is all the more open for more than one approach, each addressing somewhat different objectives; (2) because of this, the industry would actually look a lot better in the eyes of interested consumers if it were to admit this fact by supporting more than one testing methodology even though results will differ between approaches because they are measuring different things in different ways; and (3) if the industry were to assume this rather more enlightened approach, they should pay fees for service to support the costs of all this work, in return for which they would be allowed to quote results without there being a "licensed certification", which latter strikes me as a bit of an artifact absent an ISO standard against which to certify. The report is its own "certification". 
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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MHMG

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Re: archival properties - paper ink permanence info
« Reply #101 on: April 06, 2015, 09:47:31 am »

I read that article, and it mentions that the rating applies to prints under glass. So whatever the value of the rating, it applies only to that condition, and I'd ask Mark MHG to confirm whether with glass the rating proposed (using the WIR standard) in that article could apply for EPLPP and EEFP.

Well, my bad...when I said "no way" for EEF and Premium luster on 200 year display rating, I did have in mind the AaI&A Conservation Display Criteria which keeps the allowable changes to "little or no noticeable" visually observed change under "single stimulus" viewing condition (i.e, the print is being judged by itself without a control print in perfect condition sitting right beside it). EEF won't make it because of the OBA burnout and additional media yellowing that you might be able to avoid under full UV blocking glazing or ample dark storage, but the UV block or ample dark storage isn't part of that WIR prediction, and anyway, it  would defeat the visual magic of EEF's bright white appearance right on day one if UV block glazing were used.  Premium Luster, has a bit of a different problem. Even though it has relatively low OBA content, it won't make it that long due the post exposure dark staining phenomenon I described earlier.  More research is needed into how much initial light exposure kicks off this dark storage problem, but it's certainly far far less than 400 megalux hours of pre-exposure prior to dark storage (400 megalux hours is how much light exposure would be needed to reach the WIR 200+ display year rating).

AaI&A's Conservation display rating (CDR) is indeed a pretty tough standard, far tougher than the WIR criteria set, for the allowable amount of measurable fade, but IMHO, it is more appropriate for fine art prints. Some of today's pigmented ink/stable-media-white point systems do very well when rated against this AaI&A CDR set of criteria, so that's the best argument I can give for industry critics who might argue it's unrealistic. I anticipate the P600's UCHD ink set combined with a wise media choice is indeed going to turn in some impressive results, but we need to do the test ;)  

In contrast, WIR criteria were derived for consumer photos, so sure, there will be "acceptable" 200 year prints around in the future, but with those more liberal fade/discoloration tolerances, printmakers don't need expensive cotton rag papers and pigmented inks to have functional human-readable images a hundred or two hundred years into the future. Even acid-choked lignin-filled Newsprint and cheap litho inks will easily make it that long if kept primarily in dark storage under relatively cool and dry environmental conditions, and we also accept a large amount of visual appearance changes over the years.

Just this past weekend I was going through a shoe box full of old color photos that was given to me by another family member. The photos are color chromogenic prints dating back to the early 1960s, so some are now over 50 years old. That era of dye-based color photography is quite fugitive and would be rated very poorly even by WIR criteria.  Every one of these photos has very noticeable fade, but with a little digital restoration most of the information content should be easily retrieved. I would argue that for consumer photos, the media itself serves primarily as an "image storage file" and, unlike fine prints, doesn't necessarily have much artifactual value.  If we can extract useful image information content from that print 50, 100, or 200 years from now, then that consumer photo print has served its primary purpose. My wife is thrilled to see these images of her parents, brother, and grandparents in newly restored digital color. The original prints will be catalogued and stored optimally in my cold storage freezer(s) from now on, because to me, they do have remaining historic value as traditional color photos of that era even in their currently faded condition.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 10:34:19 am by MHMG »
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MHMG

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Re: archival properties - paper ink permanence info
« Reply #102 on: April 06, 2015, 10:25:37 am »

...I would, however, add just three observations: (1) exactly because there is no ISO standard...

Mark, as you know, the AaI&A light fade tests reports both I* metric and Delta E measurements. Both are open source metrics, nothing proprietary there. The Conservation Display rating was developed for the fine art print community, but it works justifiably for consumer photo print standards as well.  Without going into too much detail, it solves one of the ISO committee's big problems by confining the single endpoint analysis needed for a simple consumer rating to only the linear initial response of a product's full fading curve. If you allow more liberal fade, then non linear fading characteristics comes into the mix, and products start to get misranked.

I would be more than happy to help WIR, IPI, or any other lab out there adopt the AaI&A light fade testing protocol. Print quality and permanence research is really what motivates me, not financial gain from the commercialization of the AaI&A test methods.   Imagine if WIR, AaI&A, and IPI agreed to start running the same testing method.  We'd have an ISO specification in no time... Just sayin'  :)

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 11:36:19 am by MHMG »
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Mark D Segal

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Re: archival properties - paper ink permanence info
« Reply #103 on: April 06, 2015, 12:10:44 pm »

Yes Mark, that is indeed another approach, but given how difficult it has been to achieve an industry consensus, my mind was wandering in the direction of encouraging variety to live and thrive until the time comes that the various actors decide to converge on the definitions and a methodology.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

MHMG

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Re: archival properties - paper ink permanence info
« Reply #104 on: April 06, 2015, 01:03:26 pm »

Yes Mark, that is indeed another approach, but given how difficult it has been to achieve an industry consensus, my mind was wandering in the direction of encouraging variety to live and thrive until the time comes that the various actors decide to converge on the definitions and a methodology.

I think we have witnessed that "variety" for the last 15 years.  It hasn't been pretty.  Not all companies make lightfastness claims using the WIR test method. Some go to IPI (then reinterpret the IPI findings because the IPI reports must be held confidential). Others cite the UK Fine Art Trade Guild "blue wool 6" pass/fail methodology.  Some (e.g., Hahnemuhle) also cite LNE ratings in Europe (I have no clue what LNE's test method is), etc.

All modesty aside, AaI&A has the only test method I'm aware of in the world right now that doesn't misrank complex multi-channel inkjet systems. Even for companies reporting colorimetric rather than densitometric data using the various flavors of Delta E, misranking of the product performance occurs because color difference equations don't weight the importance of low chroma colors to real scenes. They evaluate color out of actual scene context which is fine for paint chips and textiles but not for real photographs. Nor do color difference models measure image contrast which is an essential visual parameter to track if one is trying to judge the visuaul impact of fading on real images.  

I'm not sure what's keeping WIR or others from switching to the I* Metric. It works great. ;) That said, it certainly hasn't helped that I don't have the travel budget to go promote the I* metric at the various color science and imaging conferences, or within the ISO or ASTM or other graphic arts industry groups.  I guess the ISO committee is going to have to come to me ::)

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 05:56:48 pm by MHMG »
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