What to look out for when buying second hand?

[ksporry]

Hey guys,
I'm making my first steps into the world of digital MF, and I'm looking for advice on what to get.
I'm considering a Fuji gx645af (same as hasselblad H1), which is what they have on offer for a decent price locally and looks in very good conditions (no visible nicks or scratches,though I haven't inspected it up close and personal yet).

I'm looking for 2 things:

1- what is the best buy for a digital back with a budget of 4-5k us$? I'm mostly going to be shooting portrait, fashion, studio, strobe stuff. I'm coming from a D800E. I was thinking of a second hand P25, which seems the most affordable option with a good size sensor right now.
(The alternative is not a Hasselblad but the new Pentax 645Z, which doesn't have high speed sync).

2 - what do I need to check and look out for when I buy a secondhand H-camera and a secondhand digital back? Any tips you can share?

[jerome_m]

Hey guys,
I'm making my first steps into the world of digital MF, and I'm looking for advice on what to get.
I'm considering a Fuji gx645af (same as hasselblad H1), which is what they have on offer for a decent price locally and looks in very good conditions (no visible nicks or scratches,though I haven't inspected it up close and personal yet).

I wonder what "locally" means in your case. The GX645AF is rare outside of Japan, is Japan local for you? If yes, you should tell us.

1- what is the best buy for a digital back with a budget of 4-5k us$? I'm mostly going to be shooting portrait, fashion, studio, strobe stuff. I'm coming from a D800E. I was thinking of a second hand P25, which seems the most affordable option with a good size sensor right now.
(The alternative is not a Hasselblad but the new Pentax 645Z, which doesn't have high speed sync).

You realise that the P25 is only 22 mpix, don't you? You also realise that 31 mpix backs with a slightly smaller sensor can be had for less money? Again, I am not really sure what local is for you but, in Europe, you could have an H3D-31 or an H1 + Sinar back for less money than you plan to spend on the GX645AF + P25. For the amount of money you plan to spend, you could probably get an H3D-39.

2 - what do I need to check and look out for when I buy a secondhand H-camera and a secondhand digital back? Any tips you can share?

1: I seem to recall that the camera shutter and mirror system are specified for about 50K actuations on the H cameras, so you should inquire about number of actuations and whether the camera was serviced.
2: on some backs, notably the H3D-I series, the IR window is sensitive to mould. If the IR window does not look spotlessly transparent, replacement will be about 800€ (includes AF adjustment)
3: as for anything electronics watch out for battery contacts corrosion
4: do a general test: AF accuracy, correct connection to the CF card (the contacts are fragile), correct connection to computer (firewire plug could be broken)

[ksporry]

I'm located in Shanghai. And I'm aware that the Fuji is rate outside Japan.

I don't really get to shop in Europe or US very much. The UK (my home is based there), and China both charge significantly more for a h3d-3 or 391 about twice as much in fact. Which is why the unit doesn't get considered. As you point out, the 31 and 39 back is smaller than the p25, in which case it's probably more economical to go for the Pentax 645Z, which should be a better sensor.

Of course the sensor is not the only factor, lenses are a significant factor too, including the ability to do HSS when I do location shots in bright daylight.
I don't know how well there Pentax lenses hold up against the hasselblad lenses, but I do know it doesn't have HSS, the later could be mitigated with nd filters I guess.
Then there is pixel size which usually supports pixel quality, and therefore image quality. Zack Arias once stated that he prefers a 22mp MF back over a 35mp DSLR, because of the improved image quality.

Reason for considering the h1 and maybe the h2 over the h3 and later cameras is that the later models cannot use film backs and are limited in which backs you can use with them. The h1 does not have this limitation, which is a big plus as now I could also consider an aptus 75s back.

[Joe Towner]

The 645D and 645Z  do HSS with Pentax speedlights.  There are a lot of Pentax lenses that are good, it's more a sample variation and dialing them in with the microadjustment.

Lenses on the Pentax side are cheaper, lighter and smaller than the Hasselblad equivalent.

[synn]

Hasselblads are not too hard to find in Hong Kong. You might be able to find an H3D 39 for that price.

[ksporry]

HSS with pentax speedlights? they don't specify that in the specs. Usually the manufacturers exaggerate and would put down the most extreme sync speed, rather than state "if you use non-pentax strobes/speedlights the sync speed is low".

I was thinking of HSS for bright daylight conditions. This can be partially mitigated with ND filters I guess, but if you want the background to not move in the wind for example, you may still need a higher shutter speed.

I guess another concern is, compared to the Nikon D800E that I have, what is the real gain when moving to either the Pentax 645Z or an older Hasselblad with back?

[Joe Towner]

HSS with pentax speedlights? they don't specify that in the specs.

Here: http://www.us.ricoh-imaging.com/dslr/645Z#!product-specs
"Type: Hotshoe (P-TTL), high speed sync and wireless w PENTAX dedicated flash, X-Sync Socket"

It works, it works amazingly well.  P-TTL isn't really common in any third party makers, but here's a comparison site  http://pttl.mattdm.org/

[jerome_m]

A few quick remarks:
-the 39 mpix back sensor size is the same as the 22 mpix. Sensor of that size are 22, 39 and 50 mpix. Smaller sensors are 31, 40 and 50 (only cmos for 50).
-you can use film backs on the H2D and H3D cameras, that changed with the H3D-II.
-22 mpix backs give a different rendering than 24x36 SLRs, but they are old, very sensitive to moire and service may be difficult
-31 and 40 mpix backs have twice the iso sensitivity as other backs, because they use micro-lenses.
-if you buy from the UK, you should check in other European countries. German dealers, for example, have good prices and will ship to the UK.
-if you buy from China, you should check in Hong Kong.
-if you want to use a flash in bright sunlight, indeed the central shutter of the H cameras is a big advantage over what the Pentax or your Nikon can do (even with dedicated flashes).

As a sample of UK and EU prices, you will find here and English dealer offering an H3D-39 for £3500 (plus VAT), which is $5500. That is for back and camera. That dealer has good reputation but is a bit in the higher price range. You will find another H3D-39 here from an Austrian dealer for 4600€ (including VAT), which is $5800. That particular dealer will not ship to the UK, however.

[ksporry]

Sound interesting. Sounds like there are better options than those in Shanghai. I'll have to check the Pentax TTL thing. I'd like to be able to trigger strobes, not only speedlights

[jerome_m]

The "Pentax TTL thing" works like the "Nikon TTL thing" or the "Canon TTL thing". It reduces the power of your strobes considerably when the speed is higher than the X-sync speed. It is not a substitute to a central shutter.

I should however point out that the Pentax 645 cameras can use central shutter lenses. It is not a real solution, as the existing lenses are old, only 2 are available and the camera support is patchy, but it is possible. Download the Pentax manual and check the section on central shutter lenses.

[Pics2]

As usual, we walked away from OP's original question very fast.
Ksporry, also take a look at Leaf Aptus 75s or II 7. These are in your price range. You can find them in H mount.
In my opinion, you should save some more money and go with 8-10K solution, because in that price range you can find newer backs and kits. The main advantage I see in newer backs(kits) is they are faster and handle higher ISO much better. The old backs are way too slow, did you know that? You will be disapponted in their speed once you start shooting fashion or some portrait session.

[ksporry]

a mate of mine got the 645Z recently, in Japan. And I realised that Japan is actually a market worth exploring with the yen being as low as it now is.
He got his for a steal.
I briefly checked the CFV-50c back (not sure that has a H mount considering it is styled after the V-series), but at 5k sterling, that's certainly an option. throw in a second hand H series camera (or the cheaper fuji version of the H1) at 1-2k, and you got a kit that competes with the pentax.

[ondebanks]

I briefly checked the CFV-50c back (not sure that has a H mount considering it is styled after the V-series)

The CFV is a fixed V mount, so it can't be used on a H camera.

To gain access to that modern CMOS sensor, you'd need a H5D-50c, or a PhaseOne IQ150/250 - both of which are out of your budget - or a Pentax 645Z.
 
Ray