I would like to know wich camera system offer that nice color

[Art Sanchez]

Hi guys, i'm new here.
I am architectural photographer and i love the color coming from the images of this two guys, that are identical:

http://scottfrances.com/

http://www.joefletcherphoto.com/projects

Does anyone know with wich system or camera/digital back are they shot?
I have used Sony a7r and Canon 5dIII and these images aren't definitely coming from this cameras.

Thanks in advance!

[eronald]

Art -

 Don't be shy, shoot them an email and ask them!
 Some photographers are quite friendly

Edmund

Hi guys, i'm new here.
I am architectural photographer and i love the color coming from the images of this two guys, that are identical:

http://scottfrances.com/

http://www.joefletcherphoto.com/projects

Does anyone know with wich system or camera/digital back are they shot?
I have used Sony a7r and Canon 5dIII and these images aren't definitely coming from this cameras.

Thanks in advance!

[synn]

Hi guys, i'm new here.
I am architectural photographer and i love the color coming from the images of this two guys, that are identical:

http://scottfrances.com/

http://www.joefletcherphoto.com/projects

Does anyone know with wich system or camera/digital back are they shot?
I have used Sony a7r and Canon 5dIII and these images aren't definitely coming from this cameras.

Thanks in advance!

I don't know about those two photographers, but this camera system is particularly known for its color reproduction. Here's one example similar to what you have shown.
Look for a demo, perhaps?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Hi guys, i'm new here.
I am architectural photographer and i love the color coming from the images of this two guys, that are identical:

http://scottfrances.com/

http://www.joefletcherphoto.com/projects

Does anyone know with wich system or camera/digital back are they shot?
I have used Sony a7r and Canon 5dIII and these images aren't definitely coming from this cameras.

Thanks in advance!

Hi Art,

Color comes mostly from post-processing / profiles. Your camera's output can be turned into many different color renderings.

Cheers,
Bart

[Doug Peterson]

Hi Art,

Color comes mostly from post-processing / profiles. Your camera's output can be turned into many different color renderings.

Color comes from light source, subject, lens filter, lens coating, lens design, IR filter, CFA filters, sensor, color engine of the software, color profile in the software for the camera, post processing adjustments.

Moreover color (except in technical reproduction applications) is aesthetic not absolute.

For what its worth, though I'm extremely biased to say it (see my signature, I cannot be considered objective), I think Team Phase One systems (Phase/Leaf) processed in Capture One (where one team has control of the entire process from start to finish, and has some very experienced color engineers who get high priority in the overall engineering prioritization) gives the best color of any system I've used.

[ndevlin]

Hi Art,

Welcome.  I agree these chaps have lovely work, and excellent colour repro.  That said, I don't see anything in their online images that shouldn't be attainable from top-end DSLRs, including the Sony (though I haven't personally used the Sony - my experience is with Nikon in that realm).

While I agree that MF backs (all of them) produce a somewhat better file in terms of colour (the differences are present, but small, though very important to some), the real issue is in post-processing.  What software are you using?

I might suggest trying the 'other' platform, whichever one you do use, but also perhaps find a good professional retoucher and send them a couple of raw files, together with a sample of something you really like, and ask them to show you the best they can get out of it.  I've done that with a few landscape shots and have occasionally been amazed by what real talent with Photoshop/LR/C1 can draw out of a file that I could not.

I personally dislike Canon cameras for a variety of reasons.  However, don't let anyone here tell you that you need a CCD sensor or medium format to produce what you seek.  My friend Art Wolfe has shot with Canon forever, and most of these images linked below are from a 5D3 or worse.  Hardly a colour deficit in play....but he has full-time image processing professionals who work for him and prep his images for final output.

http://artwolfe.photoshelter.com/gallery/The-Art-Wolfe-Open-Edition-Print-Collection/G0000_zV5tU4jxjc/


Cheers,

- N.
 
ps. I'd be interested to hear if you succeed in your quest for better colour, and how.

[Esben]

.. but also perhaps find a good professional retoucher and send them a couple of raw files, together with a sample of something you really like, and ask them to show you the best they can get out of it.  I've done that with a few landscape shots and have occasionally been amazed by what real talent with Photoshop/LR/C1 can draw out of a file that I could not.

+1

Professional retouching is nearly always what makes a professional end product.

Best,
Esben

[Go Go]

+1

Professional retouching is nearly always what makes a professional end product.

Best,
Esben

+2

I make a tiff after selections, and hand the file over to a retoucher.
Sure I give direction on what I want but a professionally retouched final is something that I cant do!

[jerome_m]

Hi guys, i'm new here.
I am architectural photographer and i love the color coming from the images of this two guys, that are identical:

http://scottfrances.com/

http://www.joefletcherphoto.com/projects

I don't find the colours to be identical between these two photographers. I don't even find the colours to be consistent between the different projects of Joe Fletcher.

As to how the colours have been produced, some images look as if they have been processed to give colours imitating film. The effect is subtle, but I notice crushed blacks and sometimes a bit of grain in dark transitions. I also notice that plants sometimes turn blue-green and skies turn cyan.

[Ken R]

Hi guys, i'm new here.
I am architectural photographer and i love the color coming from the images of this two guys, that are identical:

http://scottfrances.com/

http://www.joefletcherphoto.com/projects

Does anyone know with wich system or camera/digital back are they shot?
I have used Sony a7r and Canon 5dIII and these images aren't definitely coming from this cameras.

Thanks in advance!

The Cameras with the Deepest Color Depth in their RAW Files (which will allow you a LOT of color correction) are:

#1: The Sony EXMOR Based (35mm sensor) cameras: Sony A7R, Nikon D800E/D810
#2: The Sony Medium Format (33x44mm) CMOS Sensor based cameras: PhaseOne IQ150, IQ250, Leaf Credo 50, Hasselblad H5D-50c, Hasselblad CFV-50c and the Pentax 645z
#3: The more recent CCD based Medium Format Digital Backs: PhaseOne IQ180/280, IQ160/260/P65+, IQ140/P40+, Leaf Credo 40/60, Hasselblad H4D/H5D-60

The older CCD based backs are good but obviously not better than the ones in the list above and just a bit above a Canon 5D3. They do offer a somewhat different color due to the endlessly debatable "CCD look" and processing workflow.

Then there are the lenses... Generally the best optics by far, specially wide angles, are technical camera lenses made by Schneider and Rodenstock.
Then there are the cameras/platforms...
And of course the processing software/workflow.

If you are interested in Medium Format Digital its best to contact a dealer. I use Digital Transitions in NY and they have been great.

I would at the very least call them and talk to them regarding your wants, needs, expectations etc. They won't bite.

[synn]

I would agree with those who have stated that retouching makes a huge difference. So does proper lighting.
Coming from a graphic design background, I've always retouched my own images. I feel that this gives my images that extra bit of finesse that I look for.

If you have a good grip on lighting, composition and retouching, a medium format setup, especially with tech cameras would give and edge over 35mm setups in several aspects. Whether that extra edge is worth it for you or not is a question you have to answer by yourself.

[eronald]

Color comes from light source, subject, lens filter, lens coating, lens design, IR filter, CFA filters, sensor, color engine of the software, color profile in the software for the camera, post processing adjustments.

Moreover color (except in technical reproduction applications) is aesthetic not absolute.

For what its worth, though I'm extremely biased to say it (see my signature, I cannot be considered objective), I think Team Phase One systems (Phase/Leaf) processed in Capture One (where one team has control of the entire process from start to finish, and has some very experienced color engineers who get high priority in the overall engineering prioritization) gives the best color of any system I've used.

It could be argued that since Sony now has the control of the chip,Sony has now made the most important color decisions for Pentax, Hasselblad and ... Phase One. The software makers are left to debayer and render, which I would agree Phase One historically has done extremely well, in fact in my eyes even best, but it's hard to squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube: Capture One color with a Phase back is now going to look exactly like Capture One color of a Nikon or Sony camera unless Phase One deliberately decrease the quality of the Nikon and Sony renderings.  So any Nikon D800 or Sony customer who buys the C1 software should now have access to "Phase One color".

However when it comes to the OP's question, maybe the photographers who are cited as having good color are using some interesting workflow and plugins ...or have a special appreciation of color that guides them. I don't think that the best food is poured out of a tin into a plate

Edmund

[ndevlin]

Coming from a graphic design background, I've always retouched my own images. I feel that this gives my images that extra bit of finesse that I look for.

...yes.  And you're obviously very good at it.   

I'm always amazed at the quality differences between what pro photographers post online.  So much of it just looks so plain awful, for no good reason whatsoever other than a lack of post-processing skill.

- N.

[Jim Kasson]

It could be argued that since Sony now has the control of the chip,Sony has now made the most important color decisions for Pentax, Hasselblad and ... Phase One.

Edmund, is it true that the Sony 33x44 chip customers can't specify CFA dye sets? I wouldn't that that would be difficult for Sony is they thought it would increase their margins. More a logistical problem than anything else, I'd think.

But I'm just guessing.

Jim

[synn]

You will see color rendition differences between sony, Pentax and nikon cameras, all using the same sensors. Even when processed in the same software. Sony most definitely can and does customize the sensor (including the CFA ) according to the customer's needs.

[eronald]

Edmund, is it true that the Sony 33x44 chip customers can't specify CFA dye sets? I wouldn't that that would be difficult for Sony is they thought it would increase their margins. More a logistical problem than anything else, I'd think.

But I'm just guessing.

Jim

Jim,

 I'm sure that if you pay you'll get your CFA. But I don't know how much testing and setup is needed to do a decent CFA. When I designed a $3 BOM colorimeter around a certain chip, I had a meeting with the chip guys who told me that if I bought a decent number of chips they could do me a custom CFA - so I could have turned their color chip into an 8 (7+1 white) channel instrument. On the other hand, I guess if I had bought enough of them I guess I could have got a 16 (14+2x white) channel filter spectro by getting them to print two chips next to each other Anyway,I'm sure one could do a nice multispectral camera by doing a custom extended CFA for any Sony chip, trading some resolution for much better color ...

 My feeling is that Sony have been reusing the same CFA for several chips now. I think I heard people say they get better dSLR colors out of C1 by using the IQ250 profiles. Can't remember whether this was applied to Sony or Nikon. In a way it's in everybody's interest, as this allows the customer to get decent color on a whole family of cameras, large or small sensor without testing and tuning the Jpeg converters and the hardwired movie stuff which is so important these days.

 What is interesting is how much better C1 and even Irident are than LR at doing Raw conversion - tiny firms running rings round the elephant. Adobe should just buy C1 already and retire the hardware business

Edmund

PS. AFAIK the Sony chips can be run in a different mode for Nikon, different programming registers etc, and then of course there are cover glass differences, so different camera OEMs may get slight color variations from the same base chip without a CFA change. Not that I think the CFA change is impossible, just not frequent for small customers, IMHO.

[synn]

I am the first person who reported in this forum that the IQ250 profiles help render the D800 files with better color. Better than standard c1p profiles for the D800, better than LR and better than CNX2. Doesn't mean it renders the same as the IQ250 (it doesn't).

[eronald]

I am the first person who reported in this forum that the IQ250 profiles help render the D800 files with better color. Better than standard c1p profiles for the D800, better than LR and better than CNX2. Doesn't mean it renders the same as the IQ250 (it doesn't).

I'll believe you! But the question is "why?". Has the CFA changed, is the cover glass different, is the chip or firmware driven differently eg. slight black level clipping, has the chip circuitry itself evolved, do Nikon have a different set color for their lenses?

There's another major issue with profiles and converters and that's flare.I don't know what is wired into the converter to deal with flare, but presumably something is done there with the help of the metadata.

Frankly I would prefer a decent well-tested enduring CFA and chip cell design to a custom CFA and too frequently evolving cells - there's a lot to be gained from commoditized engineering.

Edmund

[synn]

I'll believe you! But the question is "why?". Has the CFA changed, is the cover glass different, is the chip or firmware driven differently eg. slight black level clipping, has the chip circuitry itself evolved, do Nikon have a different set color for their lenses?

There's another major issue with profiles and converters and that's flare.I don't know what is wired into the converter to deal with flare, but presumably something is done there with the help of the metadata.

Frankly I would prefer a decent well-tested enduring CFA and chip cell design to a custom CFA and too frequently evolving cells - there's a lot to be gained from commoditized engineering.

Edmund

I don't know and frankly, I couldn't care much.
I am far more interested in what comes out of a camera than what goes inside it. YMMV.

[eronald]

I don't know and frankly, I couldn't care much.
I am far more interested in what comes out of a camera than what goes inside it. YMMV.

MMDV

Edmund