B&W printing options

[Jglaser757]

Newbie questions:

Why would someone want to use Epson ABW or any other RIP to convert an image to BW? I would assume that you don't have as much control.

And, if My image is already converted to BW, are these Rips that useful?

Thanks

[Jeff-Grant]

Thanks Jeff. A lot of digging around on the web had led me to think that QTR, with an alternate ink inkset, was a better solution than ABW. I'm really looking for the next step along the way, and it looks like the Cone inks are the solution. In the meantime, I can come to grips with QTR on my 3880. I may well go back and try ABW later but for now, I'll concentrate on learning QTR.

[Jeff-Grant]

Thanks John. QTR is a screaming bargain, no argument there. I'm happy to hit the learning curve. It would be great if there were more papers and a more active forum but, I guess that is the price that you pay.

[Jeff-Grant]

Why would someone want to use Epson ABW or any other RIP to convert an image to BW? I would assume that you don't have as much control.

And, if My image is already converted to BW, are these Rips that useful?

Epson ABW and QTR are to print B&W images not convert them.

[Stefan Ohlsson]

And, if My image is already converted to BW, are these Rips that useful?

Thanks

No one who is interested in quality uses the RIP to convert an image from colour to B&W. We use the tools in Lightroom/Camera Raw, Photoshop or plug-ins to convert our images. But a RIP is useful when you want to control the amount of ink that should be used to produce a certain tone. They give much more precise control over the mix of inks that is used. And the prints that is produced by a RIP like ImagePrint, which I use, last a lot longer than a print produced by the Epson printer driver and a icc-profile. And when I say a lot longer, I mean a loooot longer. You can check out the differences on http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com.
If you don't want to invest in a solution like ImagePrint or learn QTR, you should at least use Epson's Advanced B&W option. It is a major step forward in quality compared to the normal print workflow for B&W images.

[Jglaser757]

No one who is interested in quality uses the RIP to convert an image from colour to B&W. We use the tools in Lightroom/Camera Raw, Photoshop or plug-ins to convert our images. But a RIP is useful when you want to control the amount of ink that should be used to produce a certain tone. They give much more precise control over the mix of inks that is used. And the prints that is produced by a RIP like ImagePrint, which I use, last a lot longer than a print produced by the Epson printer driver and a icc-profile. And when I say a lot longer, I mean a loooot longer. You can check out the differences on http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com.
If you don't want to invest in a solution like ImagePrint or learn QTR, you should at least use Epson's Advanced B&W option. It is a major step forward in quality compared to the normal print workflow for B&W images.

Thank you for the explanation. I got a little confused. I just thought that if I have a BW image processed in PS and go to print that with a profiled paper, I would get a great print. But your saying that a RIP (QTR,ABW,ETC) will given me an even better product?

[Stefan Ohlsson]

But your saying that a RIP (QTR,ABW,ETC) will given me an even better product?

Without a doubt. If you use an ordinary color profile it's very hard to get a stable grey balance. Also the separation in the shadow and highlights is better with a solution like ImagePrint, QTR and Advanced B&W. Another area that's important for us is the greatly improved lightfastness.

[mjcreedon]

Great posts about digital black and white printing.  I believe the study of Master black and white gelatin silver, platinum, paladium or even gold tone contact prints like my friend Linda Connor creates is an important way to improve your sense of what a truly fine black and white image looks like.  Decide on a particular substrate and send this paper to some of the fine people on this list with one image file to get sample prints for viewing from the different inkset, printers and software discussed.  Live with these prints for as long as it takes to make your final printer, paper, inkset decision.
You can't go wrong with ImagePrint but it will cost you and only work for that particulare printer you decide to use today.  QTR the best bang for the buck.  Great software.  ABW a good starting point if not a final answer for some.  LR also has special features for the black and white printer.  I think it important to learn from the fine analog black and white artists work to move forward with your own digital black and white.  Digital will never be the same as gelatin silver or the other darkroom processes but studying what came before digital can help decide on how to move forward.  Some may disagree but that's how I see it after 40 years in photography.

[Jeff-Grant]

Seeing the work of masters is an excellent idea, and probably harder down here. I didn't realise that it would be possible to have a print done as you suggest. Can you suggest a few names.  I have the Cone sample set on the way already. I'm hoping that is informative.

[mjcreedon]

Jeff,
Smart move ordering the Cone sample print set.   
I don't really want to put any specific people on the spot to make prints for you.  I think if you review the posters on this subject you can sort out those contributors who have the ImagePrint RIP, LR or QTR though I think you might want to sample the QTR on your own along with making an ABW print for yourself.  QRT has some fine profiles to use with the OEM Epson inkset and/or the Cone inkset.  Remember in the Epson ABW you can choose between Neutral, Cool, Warm etc but you can also tweek the tone to your liking as well.  If you prefer a split tone print I've not found a way using ABW but LR works and I suspect ImagePrint RIP also has profiles.  I haven't used the ImagePrint RIP myself but my friend Richard Misrach uses it and he is one of the outstanding photographers of my generation.  There are some very generous people on this site.  I'm sure someone will come forward with a print or two after you supply them with the substrate.
The proof is always in the print.  Good luck.

[Jeff-Grant]

Thanks again. I couldn't agree more about the generosity of the members of LuLa. There are some extremely helpful people. I only frequent this and the colour management forums. Both are excellent. I'll dig around further for a source of prints.

[Jglaser757]

Totally agree! What an outpouring of knowledge here! I have learned so much on this journey into LFP from everyone and keep learning.

Since I do so much BW and decided on a Canon ipf, I definitely don't have much of a choice. But that's ok! True Black and White will be worth it. I did a live comparison of Epson and Canon printers and the Canon produces noticeably deeper and richer blacks. The Epson produces better colors , but not as noticeable.

[Jeff Grant]

I was wrong anout QTR support. It may not be fast but the quality is excellent. The first few prints are looking very promising.

[Stefan Ohlsson]

.
You can't go wrong with ImagePrint but it will cost you and only work for that particulare printer you decide to use today. 

Not correct. It will work with all Epson printers of the same size. If you decide to upgrade from a EPSON 4800 to a Epson 4900 it will work right away, no need to upgrade. If however you decide to go up in printer size you'll have to get a new license.

[bellimages]

Alan, I see that you use ABW (Advanced B&W mode) on a Windows computer. I currently use it on my MacPro, but am running an older OS -- 10.6.8.

I have not updated my operating system for fear that I will not be able to use Advanced B&W mode. Since I work in B&W 90% of the time, I need the ABW mode. Does anyone know whether ABW will be gone if I upgrade to OS 10.10 (code name Yosemite)?

[Mark D Segal]

I would it expect it should, because I am on Mavericks (the version just before Yosemite) and the Epson driver continues to support ABW Mode in Mavericks; but I don't know factually for Yosemite. I recommend you give a (free) call to Epson Pro Graphics Tech Support - they SHOULD know for sure!

BTW, I visited your website - absolutely stunning photography.

[aaronchan]

Alan, I see that you use ABW (Advanced B&W mode) on a Windows computer. I currently use it on my MacPro, but am running an older OS -- 10.6.8.

I have not updated my operating system for fear that I will not be able to use Advanced B&W mode. Since I work in B&W 90% of the time, I need the ABW mode. Does anyone know whether ABW will be gone if I upgrade to OS 10.10 (code name Yosemite)?

What I did before was get a new harddrive (they are quite cheap now) and install the new OSX 10.10 on it. Keep the 10.6.8 runs forever! Even it is not the fastest but is the most promising OSX for us who use it to print.

But honestly, I've switeched from OSX to Windows. It just has a lot more option and alternate to print anything for my variable clients.

Aaron

[bellimages]

Thanks Mark. I really appreciate your praise. Here are a couple brand new images that I'm dying to print .... once I replace my 7900. UGH

[Mark D Segal]

Both super - the "floating" one in particular!

[Stefan Ohlsson]

Alan, I see that you use ABW (Advanced B&W mode) on a Windows computer. I currently use it on my MacPro, but am running an older OS -- 10.6.8.

I have not updated my operating system for fear that I will not be able to use Advanced B&W mode. Since I work in B&W 90% of the time, I need the ABW mode. Does anyone know whether ABW will be gone if I upgrade to OS 10.10 (code name Yosemite)?

You have just stated one of the more important reasons for us not to use the Epson driver. There are alternatives which don't change in minor or major ways between upgrades. I think that I don't have to state what I use instead :-) By now it should be fairly obvious

Med vänliga hälsningar

Stefan
www.profiler.nu