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Author Topic: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits  (Read 22934 times)

allegretto

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How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« on: October 29, 2014, 06:30:17 pm »

Over the past 5 yrs one of the things that has spun my head around has been the high ISO performance of modern bodies from numerous manufacturers. We see pixels that have bushel basket capacities as in the D4s, A7s and 1DX that are easily capable of mid 5-digit functional ISO's that are certainly cleanable in post.

So while the maxi-MPx units work better up to the 400-800 ISO levels, they are left gasping for DR and noise at these dizzying ISO's. Of course this leap has trickled down to other models in the line and everyone has benefitted from the improvement

What I'd like to know is; how many stops do you gain now vs. what you were doing 5 yrs or so ago? I realize that some of you always shot low ISO and still do, so if its meant nothing to you, that's good too. Shooting family and children at play the difference has been enormous. Had a D4 and it was killer at this but just too heavy. Going to audition an A7s next, but my 6D ain't too shabby at all.

In any case, has it affected your shooting and if so, how much?

Thanks in advance...
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Fine_Art

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2014, 06:51:14 pm »

With the D600 I now feel comfortable turning on auto ISO<=3200 for low light. I used to strain to get the image under ISO400. Now I don't fret. Shoot, move on.
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Telecaster

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2014, 07:32:14 pm »

I've been a high-ISO guy since film days. Tri-X and HP5+ pushed to EI 1600, Delta 3200 used anywhere from EI 1250 to 12500, Fuji ISO 1600 color neg, etc. The earliest D-SLRs were actually a step down in this regard…the patterned noise above ISO 800 or so was pretty ugly, at least with the Canon 10D & 20D I used c. 2003–4.

I love film grain. I like non-patterened luminance noise too and frequently boost ISO to get more of it. Chroma noise I'm not so crazy about, but it can be easily mitigated. Not that you'd know anything about it from browsing LuLa forum topics, but there are plenty of folks who deliberately incorporate high levels of noise into their photographic styles. To me it's just the visual equivalent of overdriving a guitar amp.

-Dave-
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allegretto

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2014, 08:03:06 pm »

To me it's just the visual equivalent of overdriving a guitar amp.

-Dave-

Oh man... now yer talkin'...!

How many stages of gain (overdriven) have you used on-stage... after a stomp box....?

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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2014, 08:36:58 pm »

... In any case, has it affected your shooting and if so, how much?

It's been quite liberating.

I am now using auto ISO most of the time, allowing the camera to go up to 6400, and I've made quite a number of great shots at that speed. Portraits, cityscapes, both commercial and personal work. And mind you, I am using a lowly 60D, from a brand that is now a synonym for the worst sensor on the planet  ;) It allows me to think about the shot and not whether I should have brought a tripod with me. I am definitely past the point where I would say "Nah,  I am not going to shoot this as it requires ISO above 400," as I hear some here are saying.

Telecaster

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2014, 11:43:02 pm »

How many stages of gain (overdriven) have you used on-stage... after a stomp box....?

;D  I like clean amps in a live setting, a Fender Bassman or Showman (blonde or blackface) or Vox AC30 with the volume kept reasonable, with a set of pedals supplying the oomph. Looking at my board right now I've got, in ascending gain order, a Visual Sound Open Road (imagine a Tube Screamer without the bass cut or midrange boost), a fairly new DOD 250 Overdrive (great upper-mid grind!) and an early '90s DOD FX52 Classic Fuzz (a terrific & way underrated take on the "ram's head" Big Muff). A Little More, A Lot More & WTF!   :)  At home I crank a Vox AC4 (the current handwired version) or Fender Champ (tweed or blackface…got one of each) and control volume & breakup from the guitar. For loud-ish & clean at home I have an Ampeg Super Echo Twin, from 1963, a gorgeous sounding amp.

Way off-topic…ahem.   ;)

-Dave-
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PhotoEcosse

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 10:55:39 am »

It is certainly making my tripod feel unloved.

Excellent (virtually) noise-free images with superb tonal gradation and dynamic range at ISO 6400 are an everyday reality with the D810 whereas, only a few short years ago, I would have been reaching for the tripod if an ISO in excess of 400 was indicated for a hand-held shot.
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allegretto

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 03:31:50 pm »

Twin 10" cabinets?


;D  I like clean amps in a live setting, a Fender Bassman or Showman (blonde or blackface) or Vox AC30 with the volume kept reasonable, with a set of pedals supplying the oomph. Looking at my board right now I've got, in ascending gain order, a Visual Sound Open Road (imagine a Tube Screamer without the bass cut or midrange boost), a fairly new DOD 250 Overdrive (great upper-mid grind!) and an early '90s DOD FX52 Classic Fuzz (a terrific & way underrated take on the "ram's head" Big Muff). A Little More, A Lot More & WTF!   :)  At home I crank a Vox AC4 (the current handwired version) or Fender Champ (tweed or blackface…got one of each) and control volume & breakup from the guitar. For loud-ish & clean at home I have an Ampeg Super Echo Twin, from 1963, a gorgeous sounding amp.

Way off-topic…ahem.   ;)

-Dave-
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Petrus

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 03:41:14 pm »

Each morning, before going to work, I kneel down and thank the Gods of Photography for the gift they have given me to use, a clean high-ISO DSRL. I can not understand how I managed to make a living with 100 and 400 ASA color reversal films and early digital cameras.
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NancyP

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 04:56:26 pm »

I am tempted to stay out late at night to photograph the Milky Way and other objects / events (meteor shower, eclipse).
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Telecaster

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2014, 05:03:56 pm »

Twin 10" cabinets?

The Ampeg? No, it's two 12" speakers (and, actually, two separate amps as well) in a single cabinet, though you can use extension cabs if you want. With reverb it has a sorta stereo mode: dry signal from one speaker, reverb signal from the other. A unique sound. I'm not aware of any modern copies or digital emulations.

Getting back to high ISOs, I regularly use my Oly E-M1 at ISO 6400 and the A7r at 12800. With the M8.2s I don't like going above ISO 1250…too much patterned noise. But the Leicas let me get grainy/noisy in relatively bright conditions, and their IR sensitivity lets me shoot in IR handheld with the sun out.

-Dave-
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2014, 12:00:12 am »

I think that the real killer is the combination of better high ISO image quality with Auto ISO.

Being able to set speed and aperture in M mode, and then to let ISO play freely is genius, so is the ability to link automatically in A mode the minimal shutter speed to the actual focal length of the [zoom] lens being used.

Even on lenses without stabilization, I don't remember the last time I opened a file at 100% in C1 Pro and thought... argh... hand shake induced blur...

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 03:52:30 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2014, 05:07:20 am »

For landscapes, it hasn't changed anything in my workflow.

For everything else, I set auto-ISO to 1600 in my EM-1, no problem. That, plus image stabilization, is indeed liberating.

Chrisso26

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2014, 05:34:34 pm »

I pretty much shoot only ISO 100 to 200.
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allegretto

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2014, 10:06:06 pm »

Me too. You've hit the nail squarely...!

I don't use it much for DoF control, but I can see that some would if that suits them.



I think that the real killer is the combination of better high ISO image quality with Auto ISO.

Being able to set speed and aperture in M mode, and then to let ISO play freely is genius, so is the ability to link automatically in A mode the minimal shutter speed to the actual focal length of the [zoom] lens being used.

Even on lenses without stabilization, I don't remember the last time I opened a file at 100% in C1 Pro and thought... argh... hand shake induced blur...

Cheers,
Bernard

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Jim Kasson

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2014, 11:14:02 pm »

Over the past 5 yrs one of the things that has spun my head around has been the high ISO performance of modern bodies from numerous manufacturers. We see pixels that have bushel basket capacities as in the D4s, A7s and 1DX that are easily capable of mid 5-digit functional ISO's that are certainly cleanable in post...

What I'd like to know is; how many stops do you gain now vs. what you were doing 5 yrs or so ago? ...

In any case, has it affected your shooting and if so, how much?

For me, the breakthrough was six years ago when I got my first Nikon D3. A year before, I had defected to Canon, but thankfully kept all my Nikon lenses. A year or so after I got my D3's, I made these images, which I'd never have been able to do before:









The D3 and the D3s also let me do this series: http://www.kasson.com/galleries/staccato.php

Jim
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 11:25:04 pm by Jim Kasson »
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AFairley

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2014, 10:31:40 am »

For anything I am going to print, I won't shoot over ISO 800 with the D800E, above that I am losing too much detail.  I can clean up the noise, yes, but don't like the look.  I admit I am not the best when it comes to noise reduction, though.
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dwswager

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2014, 10:59:04 pm »

Over the past 5 yrs one of the things that has spun my head around has been the high ISO performance of modern bodies from numerous manufacturers. We see pixels that have bushel basket capacities as in the D4s, A7s and 1DX that are easily capable of mid 5-digit functional ISO's that are certainly cleanable in post.

So while the maxi-MPx units work better up to the 400-800 ISO levels, they are left gasping for DR and noise at these dizzying ISO's. Of course this leap has trickled down to other models in the line and everyone has benefitted from the improvement

What I'd like to know is; how many stops do you gain now vs. what you were doing 5 yrs or so ago? I realize that some of you always shot low ISO and still do, so if its meant nothing to you, that's good too. Shooting family and children at play the difference has been enormous. Had a D4 and it was killer at this but just too heavy. Going to audition an A7s next, but my 6D ain't too shabby at all.

In any case, has it affected your shooting and if so, how much?

Thanks in advance...


Considering we are getting more resolution and less noise (film grain), yeah it has changed how I shoot.  It is still a balance between shutter speed, aperture and ISO though.  But it all depends on the target output, subject, setup and needs.  But, in general, I do things at ISO 1600  - 3200 I never would have done with film.  In the studio, I'll crank the flash up and not the ISO.  Shooting landscape, I might extend the shutter speed before ISO, but there are times a little bump from 100 to 200 or 400 makes a shot possible in a way it might not otherwise be executed.  Basically, it provides more creative freedom!

Personally, I see the launch of so many f/4 constant aperture lenses, partly a function of high ISO performance combined with VR/IS.
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mjcreedon

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2014, 01:17:31 pm »

Working as a media photographer at the 2012-2013 America's Cup in San Francisco it was a revelation bouncing on the water in the media boats following
foiling 70 foot catamarans flying at 40 plus knots while using my Canon 5D2"s with a 400 mm F5.6L and 24-105 mm F4 lenses in RAW format at 800 ISO.  Using back button focus and 3200 th of second exposure assured clean sharp images printed to 20x30 inches.  The 400 mm was especially exciting to use since it was so sharp wide open at F 5.6.  Outstanding lense.  The optimal f stop for the 24-205 mm was f 8.  Back button focus setup saved the day since the Canon 5D2 is not known for great auto focus.  Most photographers were making images in RAW format at 400 ISO, 1000-2000 of  a second shutter speed but I'm sure they were able to push it much faster when needed.  Since my work always goes to print I tested and decided that 800 ISO worked best for me so long as I could sustain the stop action images I needed.  I have no doubt I could have pushed the ISO further if needed.  It truly is a new world for those of us who depended on a tripod and mirrow lockup for our image sharpness.
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mjcreedon

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Re: How have high ISO bodies affected your habits
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2014, 01:26:02 pm »

This image is a better example of what I was talking about in my prior post.
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