Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 11   Go Down

Author Topic: Glencoe, Scotland  (Read 30864 times)

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2014, 03:24:01 pm »

Not being sexist but, this was sounding like a bunch of women, like that TV program "The View".

How can that comment not be sexist and intended to be insulting?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 03:28:09 pm by john beardsworth »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18094
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2014, 04:27:53 pm »

"When you are wrong and you shut up, you are smart. When you are right and you shut up, you are ... married."

Either way, wright or wrong, some people just can't shut up.

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2511
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2014, 04:30:30 pm »

Not being sexist but, this was sounding like a bunch of women".
"Not being sexist "? Too funny. What the hell else is that? What other way is there to construe that comment?
Logged

dennbel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #83 on: November 01, 2014, 05:06:45 pm »

Hey, I'm not the producer or director of "The View". It's a group of lady's that talk over each other and go on and on. That was why I was stating not being sexist. If there had been a male program of that sort of would have referred to it instead.
Logged

dennbel

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #84 on: November 01, 2014, 05:14:35 pm »

"Kevin, that's just not the case. Your original picture may have a profile and its colours may be as you intended, but the  JPEG that you posted does not have any profile. As a result, the colours are way beyond believability - even more saturated than I think you intend."

Also, and this directed to John, how do you know what Kevin intended??? What makes you think what he posted is not what he intended? That seems to me to be quite an assumption.
OK, I got to get out of this conversation or I might get hired to be on "The View".
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2511
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2014, 05:38:27 pm »

As the artist I have the right to do what I please with my images. 
Of course, the "artist" has the right to do what he wants, as indeed does the humble photographer. That only leaves the burden for said "artist" of explaining - to himself if to nobody else - why he chooses to portray a scene in a certain way.
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2511
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2014, 05:40:32 pm »

Hey, I'm not the producer or director of "The View". It's a group of lady's that talk over each other and go on and on. That was why I was stating not being sexist. If there had been a male program of that sort of would have referred to it instead.
If you were not sexist, you could easily have said something like "this was sounding like the characters on that TV program "The View".

But you didn't.
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2511
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2014, 05:43:15 pm »

"Kevin, that's just not the case. Your original picture may have a profile and its colours may be as you intended, but the  JPEG that you posted does not have any profile. As a result, the colours are way beyond believability - even more saturated than I think you intend."

Also, and this directed to John, how do you know what Kevin intended??? What makes you think what he posted is not what he intended? That seems to me to be quite an assumption.
OK, I got to get out of this conversation or I might get hired to be on "The View".
He doesn't know what Kevin intended, which is why he wrote "even more saturated than I think you intend."

As for why he thinks that, he already explained that several times.
Logged

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2014, 06:00:59 pm »

"Kevin, that's just not the case. Your original picture may have a profile and its colours may be as you intended, but the  JPEG that you posted does not have any profile. As a result, the colours are way beyond believability - even more saturated than I think you intend."

Also, and this directed to John, how do you know what Kevin intended??? What makes you think what he posted is not what he intended? That seems to me to be quite an assumption.
OK, I got to get out of this conversation or I might get hired to be on "The View".

Well, obviously I cannot know exactly what he intended. But the lack of the colour profile tells me that the appearance of the JPEG in the browser simply doesn't correspond to those intentions, whatever they may have been.

That's not an assumption but how colour management works on the web. Can we agree that, whether Kevin wants highly-saturated colours or Dave wants more subdued colours, we all want the viewer to see those colours displayed as closely as possible to the image on our colour managed monitor? Fair? So you ensure that the JPEG is exported with the colour profile embedded, meaning your or my colour managed browser can then figure out how best to display the JPEG. If you don't embed that profile, it's a crap shoot (whatever one of those may be) on the other end. Here, for some reason Kevin's profile has been stripped out of the JPEG, and we're seeing the typical increased saturation in the reds.

So the very absence of the profile tells us the JPEG isn't what he intended, and in this case it's exaggerated by what we are told about the actual colours (lots of reds), and maybe by Kevin's liking for saturated images. See, that was painless, wasn't it?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 06:03:28 pm by john beardsworth »
Logged

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2106
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2014, 06:38:03 pm »

Well, obviously I cannot know exactly what he intended. But the lack of the colour profile tells me that the appearance of the JPEG in the browser simply doesn't correspond to those intentions, whatever they may have been.

That's not an assumption but how colour management works on the web. Can we agree that, whether Kevin wants highly-saturated colours or Dave wants more subdued colours, we all want the viewer to see those colours displayed as closely as possible to the image on our colour managed monitor? Fair? So you ensure that the JPEG is exported with the colour profile embedded, meaning your or my colour managed browser can then figure out how best to display the JPEG. If you don't embed that profile, it's a crap shoot (whatever one of those may be) on the other end. Here, for some reason Kevin's profile has been stripped out of the JPEG, and we're seeing the typical increased saturation in the reds.

So the very absence of the profile tells us the JPEG isn't what he intended, and in this case it's exaggerated by what we are told about the actual colours (lots of reds), and maybe by Kevin's liking for saturated images. See, that was painless, wasn't it?

As far as I know the default browser action is to assume sRGB if there is no ICC profile embedded in the JPG. If I download this JPG from the LuLa website and open in Photoshop and assign an sRGB profile it looks the same as in Safari on my MBP. If I assign another profile like Prophoto RGB then it get's way more saturated.

So I don't see that a missing profile is the explanation. I believe the reason is that the picture looks like Kevin wanted it to look. Many can disagree in his taste in post processing, but I see that he is pretty consistent in what he does. Not my cup of tea, but that does not matter at all.

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2014, 07:45:11 pm »

As far as I know the default browser action is to assume sRGB if there is no ICC profile embedded in the JPG. If I download this JPG from the LuLa website and open in Photoshop and assign an sRGB profile it looks the same as in Safari on my MBP. If I assign another profile like Prophoto RGB then it get's way more saturated.

Hans, that is because you have merely applied your profile to an untagged image. If Kevin had embedded his colour profile, you would see a difference.

To test this, open in Photoshop a photo with lots of reds, and do two Save for Webs. In the first, embed the colour profile. In the second, don't do so. Open both images in Safari. See the difference?

John
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18094
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #91 on: November 01, 2014, 08:08:51 pm »

Testing:

(Do not see the difference in Safari)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 08:12:19 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18094
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #92 on: November 01, 2014, 08:16:52 pm »

Let's try with oranges and blues, more like Kevin's image:

Still no difference in Safari.

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2106
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2014, 01:26:31 am »

Hans, that is because you have merely applied your profile to an untagged image. If Kevin had embedded his colour profile, you would see a difference.

To test this, open in Photoshop a photo with lots of reds, and do two Save for Webs. In the first, embed the colour profile. In the second, don't do so. Open both images in Safari. See the difference?

John

What do you mean by my profile? I assigned a sRGB profile which is standard and there was no difference.

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #94 on: November 02, 2014, 05:00:59 am »

Let's try with oranges and blues, more like Kevin's image:

Still no difference in Safari.

And compare them in my colour-managed browser (it happens to be Firefox, but I get the same in Safari).



John
Logged

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #95 on: November 02, 2014, 05:03:43 am »

What do you mean by my profile? I assigned a sRGB profile which is standard and there was no difference.

Probably easiest if I post the relevant area of the Save for Web dialog. There's the generic sRGB and your monitor profile which will then be applied by the viewer's browser if it is colour managed.

Logged

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5882
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #96 on: November 02, 2014, 05:17:33 am »

Hopefully after Kevin's last post people will accept what he has stated and talk of trolling and stalking will cease? :)

john beardsworth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4755
    • My photography site
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #97 on: November 02, 2014, 05:38:18 am »

Hopefully after Kevin's last post people will accept what he has stated and talk of trolling and stalking will cease? :)

You have a fresh start with every post.
Logged

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5882
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #98 on: November 02, 2014, 05:55:54 am »

Well that obviously fell on deaf ears didn't it  Roll Eyes

Dave

It looks as if you are going to pursue Kevin regardless of what not only myself and others have said? :(

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2511
Re: Glencoe, Scotland
« Reply #99 on: November 02, 2014, 06:12:28 am »

Thanks for this explanation, John. It seems incredible that in 2014 it is even an issue at all, and even more incredible that it is an issue in a relatively knowledgeable population !!
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 11   Go Up