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Author Topic: KODAK MOMENTS  (Read 7637 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2014, 11:20:25 pm »

From the horse's mouth:

Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen on Friday said the growth of economic inequality in the United States was not in keeping with American values

Quotes relevant to a  couple of issues raised in this thread:

Quote
Yellen in her data-heavy speech went far down a prescriptive road, saying public spending can narrow gaps in education quality and help level the economic playing field.

Quote
"income and wealth inequality are near their highest levels in the past hundred years, much higher than the average during that time span and probably higher than for much of American history before then."

Which raises the question: was America less capitalist before? Or, in other words, was America more "socialist" in the past than today?



First off, I didn’t know that Chairwoman Yellen was getting paid by us to be a social philosopher and education czar.  I thought her job was to provide sound monetary policy regarding American dollars.    I also didn't know it was the Fed chair's business to decide America social policy, how we spend our money and where it should be spent.  She was elected to nothing.  The people decide how we spend our money through our representatives in Congress.   Who is she to decide on fiscal policies?  The Constitution requires Congress to do that.  She should not be using the Fed to institute her pet social policy beliefs regardless of how noble they may or may not be.  It's none of her business.  It's not what we're paying for her to do.

Congress should impeach and fire her for violating the Constitution in this way.  But they won’t do that, neither the Democrats or the Republicans, because she is printing money to cover the deficits and debt that Congress is creating rather than increasing taxes to cover spending.  Of course, senators and congressmen don't want to increase taxes because they want to be re-elected.    So the insidious relationship between Congress and the Fed continues.  Money is inflated by Yellen's Fed to cover debt.  The value of our savings and salaries are diminished causing us all to be poorer than we use to be.  THAT is the reason there is a larger gap between rich and poor.  While the rich can pay off their debt with ever cheaper dollars, the poor and middle class are being squeezed by ever higher taxation (Federal, State, and Local), inflation, and stagnant wages.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2014, 11:30:18 pm »

First off, I didn’t know...

Now you know... that's why I posted it, for education purposes  ;)

Quote
... a social philosopher and education czar.  I thought her job was to provide sound monetary policy regarding American dollars.    I also didn't know it was the Fed chair's business to decide America social policy, how we spend our money and where it should be spent.  She was elected to nothing.  The people decide how we spend our money through our representatives in Congress.   Who is she to decide on fiscal policies?  The Constitution requires Congress to do that.  She should not be using the Fed to institute her pet social policy beliefs regardless of how noble they may or may not be.  It's none of her business.  It's not what we're paying for her to do.

One of many definitions of "sound monetary policy" (from Wikipedia - emphasis mine):

Monetary policy is the process by which the monetary authority of a country controls the supply of money, often targeting a rate of interest for the purpose of promoting economic growth and stability.[1][2] The official goals usually include relatively stable prices and low unemployment.

In other words, Yellen is only doing her job. We have reached a point in which economic inequality does impact economic growth, stability and employment, and she is simply pointing that out and warning that monetary policy can not solve it all alone.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 11:45:34 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Alan Klein

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2014, 01:40:39 am »

But her policies of printing to pay for deficit spending and low interest rates are only creating economic growth for the rich and hurting the poor and middle class.    That's exactly opposite what you and she claim you want to do to help the non-rich.     

RSL

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2014, 11:30:02 am »

And yet, Canadian middle class is overtaking American middle class.

Right, Slobodan. And that's because the American government has gotten a lot larger than the Canadian government and is not only slowing down the economy, it's doing its best to bring the economy to a screeching halt.
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luxborealis

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2014, 12:17:37 pm »

If we'd let "people and businesses" regulate themselves, we would still have slavery, child labor, 16-hour workdays, etc.

+1
Big business feeds on greed; ethics and morals get in the way, which is why we have the global problems we have - everything from the government-supported military-industrial complex feeding into the billions spent on the military to the fossil fuel empires' fight against global climate change to industrial farming taking over small-holdings and family farms so they can sow their GMO seeds. Everything is done in the name of perceived efficiency, economy and progress completely ignoring the long term effects on people, society and the rocket ship Earth we live on.

Duh - it's all gonna run out one day, but long before that happens the wealthy who can still afford the scarce resources will have built walls to keep out those who can't. In fact some of those walls are already in place - think gated communities, the US-Mexico border and Palestine for starters.

Funny how "the West" worked tirelessly for decades to pull down the walls that kept people in (the Iron Curtain), only to erect walls to keep the unwanted out. Then, they turned around and gave all the business to a country - China - that actively represses their people, unless they are wealthy. Hmmmm, sounds like the direction America is headed...
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Alan Klein

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2014, 12:48:51 pm »

Quote
Funny how "the West" worked tirelessly for decades to pull down the walls that kept people in (the Iron Curtain), only to erect walls to keep the unwanted out. Then, they turned around and gave all the business to a country - China - that actively represses their people, unless they are wealthy. Hmmmm, sounds like the direction America is headed...

Who is "they"?   We the people are "they".  Business only responds to supply and demand.  We, the public, you and me,  demand cheaper products.  So business complies by producing overseas to reduce the cost.  So who's really greedy.  Isn't the public really the greedy ones demanding cheaper products made overseas rather than spending more of their hard-earned dollars on more expensive, but similar products made in America?   Shouldn't "we" take responsibility for our actions rather than blaming others like business who fulfill our wishes?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2014, 01:05:57 pm »

... Big business feeds on greed... Then, they turned around and gave all the business to a country ...

[Swicthing to Isaac mode, i.e;, quoting ;)]

Lenin: "The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them."

RSL

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2014, 01:15:01 pm »

Who is "they"?   We the people are "they".  Business only responds to supply and demand.  We, the public, you and me,  demand cheaper products.  So business complies by producing overseas to reduce the cost.  So who's really greedy.  Isn't the public really the greedy ones demanding cheaper products made overseas rather than spending more of their hard-earned dollars on more expensive, but similar products made in America?   Shouldn't "we" take responsibility for our actions rather than blaming others like business who fulfill our wishes?

Right, Alan. "We" certainly should take responsibility for our actions rather than blaming others who fulfill our wishes," but, instead, we reelect an administration that trashes our economy in order to give "free stuff" to its voters. In the end, we, the people, always get the government we deserve.
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Alan Klein

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2014, 01:16:58 pm »

"Red" China is Communist in name only.  They left that past behind them.  Chinese billionaires abound including much of the leaders.   Actually, China makes the rope that they sell to us.  What a switcheroo.

luxborealis

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2014, 01:30:51 pm »

Who is "they"?   We the people are "they".  Business only responds to supply and demand.  We, the public, you and me,  demand cheaper products.  So business complies by producing overseas to reduce the cost.  So who's really greedy.  Isn't the public really the greedy ones demanding cheaper products made overseas rather than spending more of their hard-earned dollars on more expensive, but similar products made in America?   Shouldn't "we" take responsibility for our actions rather than blaming others like business who fulfill our wishes?

I take full responsibility for my actions, but not for those of the masses, who, as asses, simply respond to the artificially-created demand through advertising and the need to appear to be someone whom they are not. Despite our best attempts at education, people respond, almost as automatons, to these vices. I have never responded to the Wal-Mart ethic. Don't lump me in with that crowd!

We now have an economy that is absolutely dependent on consumption for the sake of consumption (for most people, shopping is now a hobby, and no longer a necessity) just when the world most needs a massive re-fit away from this mentality. If all our environmentally-aware efforts succeed, the current economy will plummet, not unlike petroleum prices are now doing and for exactly the same reasons: over-supply at the same time as reduced demand. We had better start building a different economy now so that the transition won't be as traumatic as it could be.
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Alan Klein

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2014, 01:34:50 pm »

Right, Alan. "We" certainly should take responsibility for our actions rather than blaming others who fulfill our wishes," but, instead, we reelect an administration that trashes our economy in order to give "free stuff" to its voters. In the end, we, the people, always get the government we deserve.

Well, of course.  They better not touch my  tax deductions for my mortgage interest payments and local property taxes, free medical care, etc.  Oh,  wait a minute.  Those aren't benefits for greedy businesses.    When I lived in a rental, I always complained about those tax wrote-offs for home owners.  But now that I'm landed gentry, nobody better touch them!

Funny thing.  I just moved to a community in NJ where I have neighbor with 10 or 15 acres that has one cow and two chickens along with the house he lives in.  I couldn't understand why anyone would do that until someone told me they a get tax deduction for the property and home because they are considered a farm. 

Alan Klein

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2014, 01:41:37 pm »

I take full responsibility for my actions, but not for those of the masses, who, as asses, simply respond to the artificially-created demand through advertising and the need to appear to be someone whom they are not. Despite our best attempts at education, people respond, almost as automatons, to these vices. I have never responded to the Wal-Mart ethic. Don't lump me in with that crowd!

We now have an economy that is absolutely dependent on consumption for the sake of consumption (for most people, shopping is now a hobby, and no longer a necessity) just when the world most needs a massive re-fit away from this mentality. If all our environmentally-aware efforts succeed, the current economy will plummet, not unlike petroleum prices are now doing and for exactly the same reasons: over-supply at the same time as reduced demand. We had better start building a different economy now so that the transition won't be as traumatic as it could be.

People who shop in Walmart are folks who generally don't buy stuff to just buy stuff.  There are many people struggling to make ends meet for necessities to take care of their families; people who have to work two jobs just to make ends meet.  You are very cavalier to tell people they shouldn't buy the things they need to support their children and take care of them?  Lower prices for them means survival. 

RSL

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2014, 02:11:23 pm »

Hear, hear.
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shawnino

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2014, 02:25:03 pm »

Dear me, it's troubling to see people arguing for bigger government and more government regulation. Nearly everywhere we tried that (Soviet Union, Mao's China, much of S. America) it's failed. On occasion it succeeds (say, Norway) success is a transient thing based on an unusual factor (in Norway's case, oil).

Just as Kodak got complacent, much of America is becoming complacent as the government gets larger and larger, destroying more and more of the economy to feed itself. Education is an important issue--far too important, I claim, to have at least three levels of government (county, state, national) gorging at the the trough. And yet, there it is. (Canada's standardized test scores are a bit higher, but the overall situation isn't much better.)

By the time people figure it out, it'll be too late. Many of us won't live long enough to have to worry about it for ourselves. Just as well for me, but I wonder how much our descendants are going to enjoy the next global dynasty. There's only one religion growing in this world. It starts with an "I". I'm not sure who pointed it out first, but it ends with a "SLAM".
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2014, 02:44:28 pm »

... On occasion it succeeds (say, Norway) success is a transient thing based on an unusual factor (in Norway's case, oil)...

For the record, it is not just "unusual factor" Norway, but the whole Scandinavia and Finland. They happen to have a high standard of living, the best education in the world, and also managed to have the happiest people on Earth and best quality of life. And yes, they also happen to have the highest level of government involvement and highest taxation.

ErikKaffehr

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2014, 03:29:29 pm »

Yes,

And that has not been without bad effects. That system failed in Sweden 1995, where we had a great financial crisis. For a short time interests rates went to 500%. But, we survived that crisis. Now Sweden is much more like traditional west European market economy. Taxes are somewhat lower.

We have big problems with education and health care, to an extent probably because of the change 1995 when the austerity measures applied were severe. But still the country does well, and seems to do well in the international ratings, too.

Regarding the other nordic countries, Norway is doing well on it's oil, Danmark has always been thriving. Denmark has always been strong on innovation, companies like Ortofon, B&O, Imacon and Phase One. Finland was on the forefront of change, quite successfully.

The financial crisis hit Iceland very hard, but I also think they do a decent recovery.

One thing I feel in common in these countries is that people feel they share a responsibility.

Best regards
Erik




… And yes, they also happen to have the highest level of government involvement and highest taxation.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 03:33:57 pm by ErikKaffehr »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2014, 03:50:51 pm »

...One thing I feel in common in these countries is that people feel they share a responsibility.

Yes.

Compare that with the US, where the sheer disdain for those less fortunate than us is quite staggering. Where turning self-interest into selfish-interest has become an art form, a religion in itself, and a political battle cry.

RSL

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2014, 04:02:22 pm »

Ah, yes! You must be talking about Enron, Tesla, and the other current and recent rent-seekers. For them selfish-interest has become an art form, a religion in itself, and a political battle cry.
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Schewe

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2014, 04:26:14 pm »

Just as Kodak got complacent, much of America is becoming complacent as the government gets larger and larger, destroying more and more of the economy to feed itself.

Just to get things back on track regarding photography, I don't think Kodak's biggest problem was complacency as much as it was arrogance and being totally and completely unprepared for the digital revolution. Kodak had no clue that it was going to happens so darn fast.

Kodak literally owned the digital industry in the late 80's and early 90's but other companies advanced digital capture and image processing so fast that Kodak couldn't react in time. Use of film fell so fast that Kodak couldn't ramp up their digital offerings fast enough. Kodak still has tons of IP that makes it still valuable but their patent applications also fell off rapidly as they cut way back on R&D.

Kodak's digital downfall really was precipitated when Nikon left the Kodak/Nikon/Canon triad where Kodak made the chips and Nikon and Canon made the cameras. Canon started making their own chips and Nikon developed a partnership with Sony for their chips.

That's not to say Kodak didn't screw up a lot in other areas...I feel bad for the legions of imaging scientists and technical research people in Rochester that lost their jobs...
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: KODAK MOMENTS
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2014, 04:36:50 pm »

Hi,

For me it was the Photo CD that was a real clue. Photo CD was a great invention, but Kodak presented it as a plaything to show arbitrarily clipped images on television.

For me, Photo CD was the entry to the digital revolution, but I had only a single one made, because I felt it was to limited. But, Photo CD made me go into scanning and image processing.

Best regards
Erik


Just to get things back on track regarding photography, I don't think Kodak's biggest problem was complacency as much as it was arrogance and being totally and completely unprepared for the digital revolution. Kodak had no clue that it was going to happens so darn fast.

Kodak literally owned the digital industry in the late 80's and early 90's but other companies advanced digital capture and image processing so fast that Kodak couldn't react in time. Use of film fell so fast that Kodak couldn't ramp up their digital offerings fast enough. Kodak still has tons of IP that makes it still valuable but their patent applications also fell off rapidly as they cut way back on R&D.

Kodak's digital downfall really was precipitated when Nikon left the Kodak/Nikon/Canon triad where Kodak made the chips and Nikon and Canon made the cameras. Canon started making their own chips and Nikon developed a partnership with Sony for their chips.

That's not to say Kodak didn't screw up a lot in other areas...I feel bad for the legions of imaging scientists and technical research people in Rochester that lost their jobs...
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