How are the Pentax Z645 owners feeling?

[ndevlin]

Ok, a variety of points to address:

@stevenf:  If you have and like the H4-50, with four fabulous lenses, do not change up.  The Hassy is a great system.  The lenses are as good or better, and the Leaf shutters are a real advantage.  Change only if your are constantly aggravated by the usability of the camera, and/or need a higher ISO for your work. 

@deeejjjaaaaa: The Leica S is academic for two reasons:  (i) their CMOS camera is many months away and entirely untested and (ii) their prices limit their use and ownership to multi-millionaires, which most of us are not. And yes, no doubt their lenses are a lot better. If I won a lottery I'd for sure get an S system just for fun.

@ goldfinger:  the USB 3 tethering solution is imminent and I have no doubt it will be quite good.  I'll be eager to test when it comes out.

@eronald: skin rendering looks good in my brief tests.  Looks very nice in in-camera jpegs converted to B&W :-)

     

[Paul2660]

Torger
Yes. It's a real problem to me.  If I own 1 body at 8.5k and have to send it to Japan for 6 weeks for a repair. Also, I perfer to work with US based service for any product of this cost/complexity.  As with Canon,Fuji, Nikon, and Phase One.   If you send off a 645z to Japan, who do you call to check on the camera. And do they speak English?

In the 14  years I have owned Canon about 33% of repairs went back as they were not fixed right the first time both bodies and glass. Phase One since 2008 50% of my first time repairs went back again, either from my dealer checking the repair first or me finding something else was wrong. I have always owned a Value Add on Phase so extended returns are not an issue.  

Buying a 2nd 645z for a back up may sound OK, but to me is a bit expensive.

I fully believe in the capabilities of the z in reality warranty repair is a important consideration at least to me.

Paul

[eronald]

@eronald: skin rendering looks good in my brief tests.  Looks very nice in in-camera jpegs converted to B&W :-)

    

Nick that's a very nice portrait ... you give nice gray

Edmund

[ndevlin]

Paul,

Your concern on service is a very material one.  I get fantastic support from Bill Gouge of Pentax (Ricoh) Canada, but i have not had to explore their service times. 

Fortunately for you Americans, Lenrentals now seems to offer the 645z for a pretty reasonable price.  Cheaper than the Phaseone extended warranty :-)

In all seriousness though, they really need to support the camera domestically. I will find out what the situation is.  Of course, the more they sell the better the service will likely be....

[Justinr]

Worth noting that a Pentax MF system can be bought for less than a P30 back alone so when the time comes to replace the ZD back on my Mamiya it looks as if I may be  moving back to Ricoch.

What's the accuracy/consistency of exposure like BTW?

[Paul2660]

Nick,

Good point on Lens rentals, I did not realize they rented this camera now.  It for sure would be an option.

Paul

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... The light rays through the trees were shot with the 300mm f5.6.  I don't really know how good this lens is bc I think it is being limited by vibration....

Not good at all... you can see a cobweb, but you can't see the spider... baaahh 

[eronald]

Nick,

Good point on Lens rentals, I did not realize they rented this camera now.  It for sure would be an option.

Paul

$1200 for a month rental.
Much cheaper than a Phase warranty or Phase rental.

http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/medium-format/pentax/pentax-645z-medium-format-dslr

I think cheap -or at least reasonably priced- medium format prices offer new perspectives. At these rental prices it makes sense to get one for a trip.
Maybe Leica should try and get the S out into rental too.

Edmund

[bcooter]

@deeejjjaaaaa: The Leica S is academic for two reasons:  (i) their CMOS camera is many months away and entirely untested and (ii) their prices limit their use and ownership to multi-millionaires, which most of us are not. And yes, no doubt their lenses are a lot better. If I won a lottery I'd for sure get an S system just for fun.

If I had a dollar for everytime someone mentions lecia and millionaires, I'd have 15 million in the bank.

Obviously I guess your talking about buying full retail of the latest cmos S series, but I paid less for my S2 than the Pentax and unlike any larger than 35mm format camera, you can use H series and Contax lenses with full functionality, honestly no glitches in focus or sharpness of focus.

I have 7 contax lenses, one leica lens, the 120 and it's very good and has different roll off than the Contax Zeiss, but it's not sharper, so if you just want a different look, you can buy Leica lenses as you go, but you don't have to buy the full line of lenses, to get up and running.  

In fact medium format cameras seem to last forever, are usually taken care of better than a 35mm camera so dealer approved used can be a deal, in all makes, not just Leica.

Now I'll admit I haven't tested the Z, or any pentax digital and the world seems crazy for 6000 iso though so far I've rarely needed it in any format, any genre, so I guess I work differently than some.

Still, the Leica for the Lambo/Bentley crowd is not really true, except for the build quality.

IMO

BC

Leica S2

650 watt Arri Frensel key, through 1 stop frosted glass.

[torger]

Yes. It's a real problem to me.

Ok, just curious :-).  Local repair is sure better. I haven't had the best of experience concerning repairs (regardless of product), I usually don't have the luck that things actually break in pieces, they just start to behave funny and such things is very hard to get repaired. I guess it indeed would be a bit easier if you could call and speak to them in person.

[eronald]

J,
 The Leica is a known quantity. This thread is about the 645Z, and people's hands-on experiences with the Z, precisely because it is new. And ISO 25000  in MF is new. Nick showed those star reflections, something you can only do with that sort of ISO, and it is spectacular. You won't do that with the S.

Edmund

If I had a dollar for everytime someone mentions lecia and millionaires, I'd have 15 million in the bank.

Obviously I guess your talking about buying full retail of the latest cmos S series, but I paid less for my S2 than the Pentax and unlike any larger than 35mm format camera, you can use H series and Contax lenses with full functionality, honestly no glitches in focus or sharpness of focus.

I have 7 contax lenses, one leica lens, the 120 and it's very good and has different roll off than the Contax Zeiss, but it's not sharper, so if you just want a different look, you can buy Leica lenses as you go, but you don't have to buy the full line of lenses, to get up and running.  

In fact medium format cameras seem to last forever, are usually taken care of better than a 35mm camera so dealer approved used can be a deal, in all makes, not just Leica.

Now I'll admit I haven't tested the Z, or any pentax digital and the world seems crazy for 6000 iso though so far I've rarely needed it in any format, any genre, so I guess I work differently than some.

Still, the Leica for the Lambo/Bentley crowd is not really true, except for the build quality.

IMO

BC

Leica S2

650 watt Arri Frensel key, through 1 stop frosted glass.

[bcooter]

J,
 The Leica is a known quantity. This thread is about the 645Z, and people's hands-on experiences with the Z, precisely because it is new.

The thread had moved to a comparison of price with other cameras and I assume usability in low light.

I don't have trees, (btw Nick beautiful shot), but could display a low wattage shot obviously in a different genre, though basically I was responding to price.

But, when it comes to price, no new system is inexpensive, unless you have a complete lens set, some more expensive than others.

The Pentax is a good deal and changes the way medium format is priced, at least new medium format, but I costed out the newer pentax lenses and body when I looked at the 645 D and it wasn't inexpensive in total.

Heck just my micro 43 system with lenses, accessories, filters, viewfinders was twice what I paid for my S2, because I was set on lenses for the S2.

IMO

BC

[eronald]

Let's hope some other guys post 645Z pix.  Nick's are - to say the least - surprisingly good.
Your case for the S has been well made.

Edmund

The thread had moved to a comparison of price with other cameras and I assume usability in low light.

I don't have trees, (btw Nick beautiful shot), but could display a low wattage shot obviously in a different genre, though basically I was responding to price.

But, when it comes to price, no new system is inexpensive, unless you have a complete lens set, some more expensive than others.

The Pentax is a good deal and changes the way medium format is priced, at least new medium format, but I costed out the newer pentax lenses and body when I looked at the 645 D and it wasn't inexpensive in total.

Heck just my micro 43 system with lenses, accessories, filters, viewfinders was twice what I paid for my S2, because I was set on lenses for the S2.

IMO

BC

[ndevlin]

@BC:  In terms of price I was thinking purely from a civilian perspective. (Spare a thought every now and again for those of us who pay post-50%-tax-dollar for cameras  ).    If I were in the biz, I would chose cameras purely on performance as, assuming you're a good viable business, you can make the numbers work and the differences aren't that great over time.

You're right insofar as the new Pentax lenses are very aggressively priced.  The 90mm is nice, but not $4k nice.  Same with the 25mm. It's the fact that I got a three lens setup from 45mm-300mm in used near-mint for under $1,500 that makes this so appealing.  

With the S2, is it the total package you like (lenses, finder, feel, and file) or in particular that you like the files/rendering?

- N.  

[Manoli]

Anybody have first hand experience of the new Pentax tethering software ?

[Ken R]

@BC:  In terms of price I was thinking purely from a civilian perspective. (Spare a thought every now and again for those of us who pay post-50%-tax-dollar for cameras  ).    If I were in the biz, I would chose cameras purely on performance as, assuming you're a good viable business, you can make the numbers work and the differences aren't that great over time.

You're right insofar as the new Pentax lenses are very aggressively priced.  The 90mm is nice, but not $4k nice.  Same with the 25mm. It's the fact that I got a three lens setup from 45mm-300mm in used near-mint for under $1,500 that makes this so appealing. 

Is it the total package you like (lenses, finder, feel, and file) or in particular that you like the files/rendering?

- N.   

Exactly. I had the 645D and sold it even though it is a fantastic camera. Two reasons:

1- Service and Repair. Prepare to be without your camera for 6-10 weeks if you need to send it in for repair. That is unacceptable for a professional like myself. For an amateur it might not matter. 

2- Lenses. The new lenses are overpriced IMHO and the old lenses are only good at say f8-f16. Fine for Landscapes and Studio work (some) but not good if you want to take advantage of the large sensor to get some nice out of focus backgrounds when shooting people.

As far as I know the 645Z has not changed those issues. It is a shame since it seems like a fantastic camera. Probably the best AF Medium Format Camera ever made.

That said the 645D at current prices might be a good backup!

[bcooter]

@BC:  In terms of price I was thinking purely from a civilian perspective. (Spare a thought every now and again for those of us who pay post-50%-tax-dollar for cameras  ).    If I were in the biz, I would chose cameras purely on performance as, assuming you're a good viable business, you can make the numbers work and the differences aren't that great over time.

You're right insofar as the new Pentax lenses are very aggressively priced.  The 90mm is nice, but not $4k nice.  Same with the 25mm. It's the fact that I got a three lens setup from 45mm-300mm in used near-mint for under $1,500 that makes this so appealing. 

Is it the total package you like (lenses, finder, feel, and file) or in particular that you like the files/rendering?

- N.   

Hey Nick,

First off I haven't tested a 645z . . . well I did shoot some frames in a store and looked at them later, but as far as really using it, I don't know anything about it.

But . . . I think on paper it seems like a heck of a good deal and I really do hope Pentax offers good tethering and enough lenses to complete the line.  I've tried some of their older lenses and since most are used I think it's a hit a miss on what's sharp, what isn't.

I guess their new lenses are expensive, but every camera makers pro line lenses are expensive.  After you buy a few Cinema lenses, actually even leica still lenses look like a bargain.

The only point I was trying to make is if you look around, shop right and can live with 800 iso or less, an S2 (and a lot of other used, or demo medium format) is less or equal to the price of the new pentax and I don't compare lenses and files by the sub atomic level, but I'm always amazed at how sharp those old contax zeiss are.

But I still think the Pentax is good if you starting fresh with medium format, don't necessarily know if it changes things for Hasselblad and Phase, because I would imagine a lot of those buyers already are invested in lenses and a system.

But to be honest, I came within an inch of buying a 645d because I do like the look of ccd files for my work and the only thing that stopped me was the buffer and the tethering.

The Z seemed to have addressed that which is good for everyone.

IMO

BC

[ndevlin]

Anybody have first hand experience of the new Pentax tethering software ?

Not out yet.

[BernardLanguillier]

2- Lenses. The new lenses are overpriced IMHO and the old lenses are only good at say f8-f16. Fine for Landscapes and Studio work (some) but not good if you want to take advantage of the large sensor to get some nice out of focus backgrounds when shooting people.

The 90mm is expensive, but still clearly cheaper than its equivalent Hassy H/Leica S, right?

Plus, it is the only of those offering in lens stabilisation which is IMHO a great asset.

So overpriced relative to what?

Cheers,
Bernard

[Ken R]

The 90mm is expensive, but still clearly cheaper than its equivalent Hassy H/Leica S, right?

Plus, it is the only of those offering in lens stabilisation which is IMHO a great asset.

So overpriced relative to what?

Cheers,
Bernard

Specs wise seems good but just the overall feel, build of the lens does not feel at all at the level of the price. Also I really did not like the bokeh. Yes, this last part is subjective but important to me at least. Again, this might not matter to other users.

I am not saying the price of the new Pentax 645D lenses are as bad as the Sigma SD1 pricing fiasco (remember that?) but honestly they should be priced lower at say $3200 max. After all the Pentax is a lower cost alternative product. As it is the wide range of used FA and A lenses make a lot more sense.