How are the Pentax Z645 owners feeling?

[eronald]

The camera has been out for a little while, and I guess some of us here now own it.
What are your real life experiences with the Pentax 645Z like?

Edmund

[ndevlin]

Well, I'm not an owner, but I am feeling very, very sad at having tad to give back the demo to Pentax that I'd used for the last 6 weeks.  Some of the best shooting I've ever done. Growing to really like the camera.  It's miles better than the 645D, years ahead of Hassy and Phase, and markedly superior to the D800e in IQ and handling.  

Plus, I just have found that the bigger the OVF, the better my pictures.  No idea why.  Just is.

In short, a terrific machine I would like to own.  Only real improvement it needs is electronic first curtain shutter to reduce shutter vibrations.

- N.

[synn]

Nick, since you have/ had an H4D 60, how do you rate the file quality of the pentax vs the hassy, ignoring all the handling characteristics etc?

In short, when you import the files in, which one blows you away more?

p.s. Excellent shots, BTW. Love the B&W.

[BernardLanguillier]

Nick,

Thanks for sharing. The 3rd image is outstanding.

Cheers,
Bernard

[craigrudlin]

Nick

Please let us know which lenses you used for these excellent images.

As a corollary which lenses from the Pentax line do you recommend? 

Are there any adapters for the camera so other brands of lenses can be used?

How do the files compare to those from the Leica S  (or S2).

THANKS!

[mjrichardson]

I agree that 3rd shot is spectacular, the sort of shot I'd be extremely proud of.

Mat

[eronald]

I agree that 3rd shot is spectacular, the sort of shot I'd be extremely proud of.

Mat

amazing pix.

Edmund

[michael]

I won't repeat what's in my review, other than to say that after another month of almost daily use the camera is even better than my initial evaluation.

Handling is first-rate... as Nick says, preferable to the Nikon 800e, which I was using previously. Image quality leaves almost nothing to be desired, either at low ISO or high. The Phase One IQ180 offered more resolution, but when the new Sony sensor is taken as a whole, for me it offers more. (Both Hasselblad and Phase along with Pentax wouldn't have selected it if it wasn't the current state of the art for its size).

All six Pentax lenses that I have are very fine. Would Leica S glass be better? Undoubtedly. But, as with most performance aspects of high-end equipment the differences lie at the margins. If you're a devoted and card-carrying pixel peeper, then nothing but the best will do (Leica S / Zeiss Otus). But in the real world of "Can you see the difference on a 20X30" print on the wall without sticking your nose against the glass", or at 100% on screen in the extreme corners, the answer for me is "no".

I spent enough years chasing the "holy grail" of image quality and spending outrageous amounts of money in that pursuit to know that it's a never-ending and ultimately fruitless search.

Based on my experience, and at this point in time, I believe that the 645z with selected Pentax lenses offers the highest image image quality combined with the most versatile handling of any camera system on the market; full frame 35mm or medium format.

It's not the best camera for all applications. I wouldn't use it for professional sports shooting, and it won't work on a tech camera with movements. But for most other applications, especially those that interest me...landscape and nature, it sings.

The bulk and weight can be a bit of an issue, as they are with all medium format systems, and even top-of-the-line Nikons and Canons. But this is not a hiking camera, at least not for me at age 70. For that I have the Sony A7r. The Pentax is used when I'm shooting from the car, in which case it rarely needs to be carried more than a couple of hundred yards. When I do those short distances, I put a couple of lenses in a shoulder bag, the camera with a lens on a BlackRapid sling, and the tripod over my shoulder. Anything less than a half mile or so is easily handled.

I'll be taking the whole Pentax kit, body, six lenses and all the extras in a Gura Gear Kiboko backpack as carry-on luggage, both on my December trip to Hawaii and my January / February back-to-back Antarctic expeditions.

Michael

[M.Piq]

How about portrait photography with Pentax Z645?

[michael]

Why would portrait photography be an issue? Of course...portrait, fashion, product, and life style are all covered.

Just think of it as DSLR on steroids. The only real limitations are no fast lenses, maximum 3FPS, and slow tracking autofocus. Also, there are no current leaf shutter lenses, so high speed strobe sync is limited. But then, no DSLRs have leaf shutter lenses either.

Other than that the camera is about as versatile as it gets.

Michael

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the original article and also for the update!

Very nice to hear that the 645Z is not "just a" sensor update to the 645D but a really new camera improved in all details. I hope Pentax sells tons of them.

Best regards
Erik

I won't repeat what's in my review, other than to say that after another month of almost daily use the camera is even better than my initial evaluation.

Handling is first-rate... as Nick says, preferable to the Nikon 800e, which I was using previously. Image quality leaves almost nothing to be desired, either at low ISO or high. The Phase One IQ180 offered more resolution, but when the new Sony sensor is taken as a whole, for me it offers more. (Both Hasselblad and Phase along with Pentax wouldn't have selected it if it wasn't the current state of the art for its size).

All six Pentax lenses that I have are very fine. Would Leica S glass be better? Undoubtedly. But, as with most performance aspects of high-end equipment the differences lie at the margins. If you're a devoted and card-carrying pixel peeper, then nothing but the best will do (Leica S / Zeiss Otus). But in the real world of "Can you see the difference on a 20X30" print on the wall without sticking your nose against the glass", or at 100% on screen in the extreme corners, the answer for me is "no".

I spent enough years chasing the "holy grail" of image quality and spending outrageous amounts of money in that pursuit to know that it's a never-ending and ultimately fruitless search.

Based on my experience, and at this point in time, I believe that the 645z with selected Pentax lenses offers the highest image image quality combined with the most versatile handling of any camera system on the market; full frame 35mm or medium format.

It's not the best camera for all applications. I wouldn't use it for professional sports shooting, and it won't work on a tech camera with movements. But for most other applications, especially those that interest me...landscape and nature, it sings.

The bulk and weight can be a bit of an issue, as they are with all medium format systems, and even top-of-the-line Nikons and Canons. But this is not a hiking camera, at least not for me at age 70. For that I have the Sony A7r. The Pentax is used when I'm shooting from the car, in which case it rarely needs to be carried more than a couple of hundred yards. When I do those short distances, I put a couple of lenses in a shoulder bag, the camera with a lens on a BlackRapid sling, and the tripod over my shoulder. Anything less than a half mile or so is easily handled.

I'll be taking the whole Pentax kit, body, six lenses and all the extras in a Gura Gear Kiboko backpack as carry-on luggage, both on my December trip to Hawaii and my January / February back-to-back Antarctic expeditions.

Michael

[M.Piq]

No, of course is not issue. My question is about experience with Pentax about portrait photography( bokeh,lens  etc..)
I don't shoot landscape at all,  only portrait photography.

[deejjjaaaa]

But then, no DSLRs have leaf shutter lenses either.

Leics S* dSLRs (they are not MFDB and dSLR does not imply a sensor size) have leaf shutter lenses...

[ndevlin]

Thanks for the kind words.  Of the three images I've attached, two were captured with the 45-85mm zoom, which both Michael and I find to be the real core of the system. Good lens.  The light rays through the trees were shot with the 300mm f5.6.  I don't really know how good this lens is bc I think it is being limited by vibration.

Of note, "Night Slide" was shot at ISO 25,600.  Only this kind of speed makes the pin-point stars and sharp water possible.

Of note on another note, the B&W shot was done at f32 (6 seconds in daylight with ND filter), and looks gorgeous at 24x30".

How does the camera and the file it produces compare to the H4D-60? Well, the cameras largely don't compare.  The Hasselblad is fairly painful to use. The Pentax is about the best of modern DSLR design.  It feels much more rugged and never runs out of power :-)

I found the H quite useable with practice, in fairness.    

The file? At ISO 50, with an over-abundance of light, the 60MP Dalsa CCD produces a nicer file.  Deeper and more malleable even than the Pentax at base ISO.  Just fabulous in every way. But how much better? Well, on my one real side-by-side test, I was initially convinced the H-file had more micro-contrast and better tonal detail.  However, I ultimately went back and worked on the Pentax file in Lightroom, giving it everything I had.  The result was that, with a lot more sharpening on the Pentax file (both overall and local) and with a large amount of area-specific work, I made the Pentax file look virtually indistinguishable from the H-file on-screen at 100%.

Outside of base ISO, there isn't much contest - the Pentax CMOS file is better once the speeds increase.

The lack of leaf-shutters on the Pentax sucks.  First, it makes environmental portraiture work very hard. I now own both leaf shutter lenses for the 645, but have yet to try them on a real shoot.  Both are blazing-sharp, though.  That said, the need to manually focus and re-cock the shutter between shots is a sub-optimal solution (though less so when one is waiting for strobes to recharge).

Second, while the shutter is much better dampened on the "z" than the "D",  I believe it is still an issue at speeds between 1/100th and 1 second.  

Electronic first-curtain is simply and without question the answer on MF in the absence of leaf shutter lenses.

Portraiture? I haven't shot much portraiture with it, but the only issue is flash sync speed.  The files are gorgeous and skin tones are very nice.  Focusing is more than adequate.

I think a quick article updating our first review might be in order!

- N.    

[stevenf]

Nick

I am curious which lenses you have for the Pentax. I have a h4d 50 with the 28, 50 version 2, 100 and 210 lenses and have been thinking to switch to Pentax. I was hoping to increase Megapixels if I made a move to a new system but feel it may be years before we see a higher Megapixel chip with CMOS.

Thanks Steven

http://www.friedmanphoto.com

[torger]

Why would portrait photography be an issue?

I guess that would be skin-tone rendering. Some see a difference between say a D800 and anything medium format CCD concerning skin tones. Being a landscape photographer I don't have eyes for that, but I'm still curious about if the Pentax 645Z can please those people that were not pleased with how D800/D810/A7r and others render skin tones.

It would also be interesting to know if there is any difference between IQ250 and Pentax 645Z in that regard, say if the con-census is that IQ250 renders good skin tones but the 645Z does not. That would be an interesting result.

I think the 645Z really needs to sing in portrait to be a real alternative to the typical MFD user, which is not a landscape photographer but rather do various assignments in a studio.

[goldfinger]

It seems that not many people are using the 645z tethered in a studio. Maybe because there is no good solution for that. You can't us it directly with Lightroom or PhaseOne to tether. There is only a new software from Pentax called Pentax image transmitter 2 which you have to buy, but it seems nobody is using them.  

[eronald]

Why would portrait photography be an issue?
Michael

Michael,

Skin color and texture rendering is very specific, and a strength of the remaining CCD solutions eg. Phase, Hassy, Leica S. Somehow, they often get it right , with little need for rework. And this is worth a lot of money to the fashion/portrait crowd.

Nobody has been able to figure out yet what *exactly* makes a camera yield good skin tone, although people like Imatest and Image Engineering have been adding texture tests to their test software.

So, it would be nice to know what the fashion/portrait guys think.

Edmund

[Paul2660]

Has Pentax made any updates or changes  to their warranty service for North America?  Such that a 645z would no longer have to be sent to Japan for repair? 

Thanks

Paul

[torger]

Is a long round-trip time a problem? Wouldn't you have a backup?

For me it's more important that the service works than it's fast. That is when you send in something broken you get something working back. A real test is to see how the service handles a unit with intermittent failures, something that only fails in certain conditions. That's tough, and a classic is to get it back with the same error there...