Poll

Which camera system would you bring for 60-90 days trekking in the Himalayan mountains?

Fuji XT1
- 6 (26.1%)
Samsung NX1
- 1 (4.3%)
Sony A7R
- 7 (30.4%)
Nikon D810
- 9 (39.1%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: November 09, 2014, 05:41:32 pm


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Author Topic: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?  (Read 7128 times)

maddogmurph

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Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« on: October 10, 2014, 06:41:32 pm »

Obviously weight is a huge concern, operation in cold temperature, and I want the 24mm, 50mm, and 200+mm focal lengths, or close to it.  Obviously this isn't very fair to the NX1 since almost no one has touched it, but it seems like this might be the perfect instrument, so I'm highly interested in anyone who has worked with or shot this Samsung Camera, and the A7R as I know little about those two.  I own the XT1 & D810 systems.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2014, 11:31:08 pm »

Hum... where are you going to trek, will you have sherpas carrying some of your stuff, how will you approach your trekking locale (plane, heli, bus,...)?

When I did the 3.5 weeks Gokyo/Chola/EBC trek a few years ago I took my D3 + D2x as back up. Lenses were 17-35mm f2.8, 60mm macro and 70-300 VR + pano gear and Gitzo tripod. We had some sherpas carrying our stuff btwn lodges but were still limited in weight since we used an heli to do the approach straight to 3,800m. Some images:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/72157604790836498/

If I were to do it again (which I would like to) I would probably pack the D810 (probably with vertical grip to be able to use high capacity batteries, preferably those of the D4s), 24mm T/S or 28mm f1.8 (probably the 28mm), 55mm Otus, Leica 180mm f2.8 or 280mm f4 APO (tough call, probably the 180mm) and a D750 as back up (again with battery pack for commonality purpose). This choice of focal lengths and primes over zooms is strongly influences by my practise of the stitching art obviously. Assuming you are going towards the Everest, it is key to bring a long lens working well at far distances because you will be several kms away from the Everest even in the closest location, which is likely to be the top of Kala Patthar (web cam view here).

But at the end of the day, the most important thing is to maintain your condition during the trek so that you are able to take photographs and enjoy doing it. The walking itself is very easy for experienced trekkers, even in supposedly difficult sections (such as the Chola pass climb) compared to what I am used to in Japan. For most people, regardless of fitness btw, the problem is altitude, food and possible sleep deprivation resulting from those. Those are another reason why I would definitely not bring any equipment I am not thoroughly used to.

My advice is: drink 5 litters of pure water a day (water purification was a job all by itself for us), eat only safe food (basically rice), stick to a very healthy routine (no alcohol, sleep early and use ear plugs), walk slow and steady (sweating is a bad idea when you don't take showers for 3 weeks), be aware of your breathing and be very nice to your trekking partners even when you hate them more than your worst enemy.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 07:00:39 am by BernardLanguillier »
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synn

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2014, 08:58:06 am »

Frankly speaking,your Fuji kit looks more than capable of handling this trip within the restrictions posted,unless you wanna print really really big.
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Paul2660

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2014, 09:28:59 am »

If I was younger, I would want to take the 810, as it just amazes me still how much improvement there is in the 810 over the 800e or 800.  Too much/many thing to list for your post.   But then I consider which lenses I would want to carry, and even at a younger age the weight of the glass is considerable. 

For me as I know I couldn't carry that much weight anymore, I would pick the A7r, and some good prime lenses.  The A7r has an excellent range in iso  and DR, it adapts to pretty much any lens out there.  You can carry 2 A7r's for the weight of 1 D810 and grip.  And to me that's a big consideration, as to get where you are going, and have a camera breakdown?  There are so many good lens combinations for the A7r you have to pick those.  The A7r even works great with the Rodenstock/Schneider lenses for MF.

I own the Xt-1, and love it.  I carry it when I carry my MF rig with 2 lenses, the 18-55 and 60mm macro.  Fuji's glass is excellent and really gives nothing up to the sensor.  The 16Mp sensor will limit you on a big print, but how big will you want to print?  As already mentioned, you can so easily stitch the XT-1, so you can still get big prints easily.  Battery life is good on the XT-1, EVF excellent and now Fuji has the eye cup which is excellent for blocking light coming in on the EVF.   I guess the only thing on the XT-1 is the iso, as it's base is 200 in raw mode and that can be limiting in certain shooting situations.  But it's an excellent camera with really good glass.  You would need a telephoto, and the 55-200 is the one I would go with.  If your trip is next year, then consider the 2 new telephoto lenses that Fuji Anno'd in Photokina, but look to be excellent. 

Paul

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Ray

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2014, 10:15:05 am »

The Samsung NX1 has not been released yet, but this camera has the promise, or expectation, of superb performance.

My own experience of trekking in Nepal suggests that a heavy telephoto lens will rarely be used. There's not much wildlife on view when trekking.. I have a few shots of langur monkeys I came across once on one of my treks, and I have the occasional shot of a crow, or other bird, set against a mountain backdrop, but that's about it.

A D800E with 24-120/F4 zoom would be fine. If you need a wider angle than 24mm, then stitch.

The attached shot of a Langur monkey was taken in 2006 with the Canon 100-400 IS zoom. I never came across a similar scene during later treks, although I carried a telephotos lens in the hope that I would.
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Ajoy Roy

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2014, 11:43:14 am »

If you want to travel really light, use the D3300 with its kit lense - about 660g, less than any large lens, and less than any body. You can hang it on your neck throughout the day without feeling any strain.

If you really want a telephoto, take 300mm F4 with TC1.4, for those long shots of distant peaks. You will see hardly any wild life except monkeys, and they can come real close. I agree with others that there is no need for any zoom. If you need it wider, stitch. For high altitude flowers 60mm macro is the best choice.

Instead of lugging heavy cameras and lenses, carry spare batteries and a lot of storage.
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maddogmurph

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2014, 09:07:47 pm »

Bernard - No Sherpas, no Everest.  Going this March it looks like, through Doplo, a quick Annapurna circuit, and perhaps doing the Rara Lake & Yari Valley.  Something of this nature.  Just me and a friend. 

Synn, I agree.  And furthermore the weight penalty on the D810 might just be too high to even make it viable.  Especially considering the electricity issue.

Ajoy, the A7R is also 14.0 oz and is Full Frame, and has a 36.4MP resolution, would you really pick the D3300 over the A7R if given the option of the two?

I think a major question here I have that I didn't highlight is operation in sub-freezing temperatures.  It looks like the D810 doesn't go below 32 degrees in terms of official specifications... Same with the A7R.  Looks like people have realistically had this thing opperating around 15 degrees or so, but doesn't look like it's going to handle the high mountain passes.  Fuji states -10 Celsius.  And NX1 is 32 as well... that very well might have just made my decision fairly easy.



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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2014, 09:23:52 pm »

On the temperature front:
- how high will you be walking? Nepal is basically a warm place that gets cold when you go above 4,000m,
- when in March are you going? Late March is much warmer than early March,
- I have first hand experience using various Nikon bodies such as the D800 down to around -20c without any problem. The main problem with cold for DSLRs is condensation after moving back to a warmer environment. The D810 being fully weather sealed will be fine.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 09:41:57 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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Ajoy Roy

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2014, 01:36:54 am »

Bernard - No Sherpas, no Everest.  Going this March it looks like, through Doplo, a quick Annapurna circuit, and perhaps doing the Rara Lake & Yari Valley.  Something of this nature.  Just me and a friend. 

Synn, I agree.  And furthermore the weight penalty on the D810 might just be too high to even make it viable.  Especially considering the electricity issue.

Ajoy, the A7R is also 14.0 oz and is Full Frame, and has a 36.4MP resolution, would you really pick the D3300 over the A7R if given the option of the two?

I think a major question here I have that I didn't highlight is operation in sub-freezing temperatures.  It looks like the D810 doesn't go below 32 degrees in terms of official specifications... Same with the A7R.  Looks like people have realistically had this thing operating around 15 degrees or so, but doesn't look like it's going to handle the high mountain passes.  Fuji states -10 Celsius.  And NX1 is 32 as well... that very well might have just made my decision fairly easy.

If there are no Sherpas and you are sorely dependent on your back pack, then a lot of options are out - heavy camera, heavy lenses, tripod etc. So you need the lightest body+lense(s) combination.

I agree that A7R is light and 36MP, but are the lenses also light? The D3300+kit lense are one of lightest combinations I have seen, and the sensor is a joy to use. Further the A7R will be going through batteries much faster, so you need more of them.

The problem with sub zero temperatures is not the DSLR but the batteries, and the A7R has half the battery life of D3300. In Nepal in late March I doubt you will face sub zero temperatures except at high altitude, and there there are few photo opportunities except snow clad mountains - a stitched panorama will be the way to go, instead of lugging and extra ultra wide.

If I was trekking in the Himalayas, I would take
. D3300 with kit 18-55, for general photography.(465+195= 660g)
. 60mm Macro for flowers and bugs. (425g)
. 1 battery for every two/three days out of electricity. Four would be optimum. (99g each)
. 6 32GB cards - each one holds about 1600 RAW shots. (10g each)

The whole kit would be about 1.55kg, light enough, and tough enough. Another advantage is that the D3300 + kit is around $500 in India, so even loss will not be all that great if it is damaged or lost or stolen.
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Ligament

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2014, 02:26:32 am »

If weight is a serious issue,

I'd take the Sigma DP Merril series (all three of them), with a couple external battery packs to let you shoot enough. I use the Anker battery packs. This would be a lightweight setup with no significant loss in image quality.
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Paul2660

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2014, 08:03:39 am »

I have shot the D800e at 15 to 21 degrees F for up to 3 hours with no problems. I assume the D810 will also handle these conditions.   You will see less than optimum battery life.

Paul


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Torbjörn Tapani

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Re:
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2014, 08:34:03 am »

I regularly use my D800E in sub zero(F)  temperature, -20(C) not uncommon the most I tried is -30(C). Camera works fine but battery life will be severely compromised.
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maddogmurph

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2014, 03:45:03 pm »

- how high will you be walking? Nepal is basically a warm place that gets cold when you go above 4,000m,

Looking at doing the high trail, crampons, ice axe, harness, etc for a few of the passes.

Ligament, hadn't considered that, thank you.  That's a really good idea.  YOu said "all three of them"?  I'm only finding two?  Also do these cameras take filters?

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lelouarn

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2014, 03:02:17 am »

I think for this kind of expedition, weight is really crucial. So I would:
- Take the A7R + 24-70: really nice IQ and lightweight.
- For the long stuff, perhaps a 70-200mm f/4, but I regard that as optional. That's because as a backup body, I would take a Panasonic FZ-1000. It can cover the long end if you choose not to take a 70-200 to save weight and still provides excellent image quality.
Only drawback of this combo is that the two bodies take different batteries.

Don't forget that by saving weight on your camera and lens, you also save weight on the tripod + head. If you go with the A7R (instead of the big fat Nikon), you can take a really lightweight travel tripod and head like a zero series Gitzo.

Have fun !
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2014, 03:20:37 am »

Looking at doing the high trail, crampons, ice axe, harness, etc for a few of the passes.

Ligament, hadn't considered that, thank you.  That's a really good idea.  YOu said "all three of them"?  I'm only finding two?  Also do these cameras take filters?

Then indeed, you'll be around 5,400 a couple of times. Still not sure that cold will be that much of an issue, you should double check with guides walking the trek regularly about actual temperatures at the exact dates you'll be there. I'd be surprised if you faced temps significantly below -10C, but don't take my word for it. The temperature really changes a lot over the course of 15 days between March 15th and March 31st.

In the end the real question is how important the photography part of the trip is. If walking is the main objectives and pictures a bonus, go with a light camera. If photography is the main objective, take the best you can carry and try to save on weight elsewhere remains my personal advice.

Cheers,
Bernard

Petrus

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2014, 04:23:55 am »


My advice is: drink 5 litters of pure water a day

Not. There is no evidence that drinking excess amounts of water helps to combat AMS. It is even possible to get sick, with symptoms mimicking AMS, by drinking too much. Adjusting to high altitude causes more urine output which should be compensated within reason, that much is true, but water is not medication against AMS. Drink only as much as needed to keep the balance, and that includes tea, soup, beer etc.

About the camera issue: If you are going to Dolpo, you are going to have porters, as it is a restricted area without tourism infrastructure. That means having a guide and a camping crew. Hiring a personal porter to walk with you and carry camera gear would cost about $15/day extra. That is not much considering the total expense and well worth it if you want to take heavier kit.

I have walked AC with Canon D5 + 24-105mm zoom, and Annapurna Sanctuary trek with Nikon D800e + 24-120mm lens. Not too heavy to carry in the day pack, as I always have used porters to carry the main luggage. In the eighties I had 2 Olympus bodies and 21, 50  & 135mm lenses and a Widelux F7 panoramic camera for 7 months hanging on my hip 24/7 in a small camera bag in SAE, China, Tibet and Nepal. Not to mention hundreds of roll of KodaChrome. Anyway, spare camera (P&S?) is of course needed if the main one fails. During the Annapurna BC trek last year some condensation formed inside the 24-120mm Nikkor, as it was pouring for over a week. Dolpo & Annapurna should be drier, though, unless your trek during the monsoon.

I also have Fujifilm X-T1 and it is an excellent camera, but I have deep distrust of the batteries it uses, they seem to run out of juice quite fast and quit unexpectedly. In Dolpo you will have to survive without recharging maybe for weeks unless you carry good enough solar chargers or a small generator.

Cold is not a problem for cameras, battery life shortens and cold camera should not be taken straight to warm and moist buildings without being wrapped in a plastic bag while it warms up. Electronics actually like cold.

Wideangles are more useful than long zooms, 135 has really been the longest I have needed, I used to carry a 300mm lens also on my first treks, but quite soon dropped it out.

I have spent almost 7 months trekking in the Nepal Himalaya since -84, so I do have some experience there.
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spidermike

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2014, 05:55:08 am »

Not. There is no evidence that drinking excess amounts of water helps to combat AMS. It is even possible to get sick, with symptoms mimicking AMS, by drinking too much. Adjusting to high altitude causes more urine output which should be compensated within reason, that much is true, but water is not medication against AMS. Drink only as much as needed to keep the balance, and that includes tea, soup, beer etc.


That is true. You can have symptoms of AMS that are due to altitiude, dehydration (or a host of other reasons). But if you get a headache when you know you have been drinking sufficiently then you can discount that as a reason which increases chance of it being early signs of acclimatisation problems. The problem with altitude is that the dryness itself can dehydrate you without realising it so drinking as a routine is highly advised, even if you are not particularly thirsty. But I will admit 5l seems a tad on the high side to me.

Quote
Cold is not a problem for cameras, battery life shortens
Oh, how annoying that is.  >:( At night I put the batteries (or the whole camera!) in my sleeping bag and during the day carried them in an inside pocket of my jacket.


For weight, the micro four-thirds would be an excellent choice of amera, but unfortuantely the battery life is pants. Petrus or Bernard may be able to advise but I have heard that more and more lodges have good facilities for recharding electrics and even despite this I would be tempted to take a DSLR because of the greater battery life. Even the very basic entry level cameras give excellent image quality nowadays so if photography is not your main aim why not buy one of those - you will probably not need all the fancy programmes and it will chew less battery power.


The next consideration, of course is how many battteries to take, how many memory cards and if you want to back up images as you go round (the weight and space can really start to pile on!!).
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Petrus

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2014, 06:26:27 am »

if you want to back up images as you go round

I have not had any memory card failures in about 8 years. So I risk it and do not carry laptops or separate HDDs as backup. Just keep the cards safe (hard case preferably) and do not loose them! Cards are so big and cheap now that any kind of method of emptying them along the way is more expensive than just simply buying more cards (shooting slides would cost 5x as much, even if the card is used just once...).

There is electricity of some sort in most lodges now, but the problem is threefold: !) voltage is usually low and charging takes a long time 2) there is not enough receptacles as besides the trekkers with their cameras all Nepali staff including porters want to recharge their phones 3) Charging is not free but up to $4/h (and you are no likely to get much juice in one hour). If OP is going to Dolpo there are no lodges there and even less electricity in villages than in the touristed areas.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 06:30:39 am by Petrus »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2014, 08:21:58 am »

That is true. You can have symptoms of AMS that are due to altitiude, dehydration (or a host of other reasons). But if you get a headache when you know you have been drinking sufficiently then you can discount that as a reason which increases chance of it being early signs of acclimatisation problems. The problem with altitude is that the dryness itself can dehydrate you without realising it so drinking as a routine is highly advised, even if you are not particularly thirsty. But I will admit 5l seems a tad on the high side to me.

5l is a bit on the high side, but drinking even 4l isn't easy at first. It makes sense to have a high target to avoid any risk of deshydratation that remains, IMHO, the #1 cause of altitude sickness. Drinking will not fix the problem if you are prone to acute symptoms, but not drinking enough is very likely to cause issues.

This is at least the dominant way of thinking among the Himalayan community in Japan from which I took advice.

Basing the success of such a photographic endeavour on the possibility to be able to re-charge batteries in lodges is IMHO risky. This is one of the reasons why I was advising the D810 + battery pack.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 08:23:29 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Petrus

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Re: Trekking in Nepal - Which camera would you take?
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2014, 08:51:40 am »

5l is a bit on the high side, but drinking even 4l isn't easy at first. It makes sense to have a high target to avoid any risk of deshydratation that remains, IMHO, the #1 cause of altitude sickness. Drinking will not fix the problem if you are prone to acute symptoms, but not drinking enough is very likely to cause issues.

This is at least the dominant way of thinking among the Himalayan community in Japan from which I took advice.

I do respect your photography advice, but here you are badly outside your field of expertise. Dehydration has NOTHING to do with altitude sickness. It does not cause AMS, it is not caused by AMS. In thin air body looses more moisture, both from skin, and from breathing. So people need to replace this. Adjusting to altitude causes people to urinate more, for this reason also people need to drink more. BUT: they only need to get enough fluids to replace this excess loss, not more. Drinking a lot when you are not thirsty and urine has approximately normal color does not help any and can even be dangerous, as body gets too diluted. This means 1 to 1.5 liters of extra fluids per day, not 4 or 5!

Best medical info is here: http://ismm.org/index.php/home.html

There is no mention of drinking X liters of water at certain altitudes, or any advice about drinking more than normal (normal meaning what is needed).

Here is another expert site from Institute of Altitude Medicine at Telluride: http://www.altitudemedicine.org/index.php/altitude-medicine/Altitude-related-illnesses-olorado-telluride-high-climbing-conditions-hypoxia

Quote from their pages: "Myth #4 - Drinking extra water will protect you from altitude illness.
Staying hydrated is important at altitude. Symptoms of dehydration are similar to AMS. In reality you only need an additional liter to a liter and a half of water at altitude. Too much water is harmful and can dilute your body's sodium levels (hyponatremia) causing weakness, confusion, seizures, and coma. A good rule of thumb to assess for hydration is to check your urine. Clear urine indicates adequate hydration, dark urine suggest dehydration and the need to drink more water."

Drinking a lot is a popular myth, apparently also in Japan. I have actually spent 2 days at 4300 meters when going up to 5500m at the northern end of the Tibetan Plateau, and did not get more than one liter of water, in any form, during that time. I was damn thirsty for sure, but never had any AMS symptoms. Single case, yes, but still.

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