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Author Topic: RM3di or WRS-5000  (Read 4780 times)

alatreille

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RM3di or WRS-5000
« on: October 03, 2014, 11:15:34 pm »

Hi all,

I'm about to make the move to a tech cam.  I've been wanting to for a decent amount of time now and the time is right now.
I currently work with a Canon system the basic Canon TSE set up of lenses and a selection of others on adapters to allow movements.  Focal length is extremely important to the way I work thus I've felt the need to fill out the Canon offerings.

My question is to people (primarily Architectural photogs) who are using a modern tech cam: either an RM3di or a Cambo WRS (5000 or precursor), or also to photographers who are using a different system (alpa etc), if they were to now be deciding on a system.
I think I'll be working with a 60 megapixel sensor.  Leaf or IQ160

I have shot with both (though briefly) and enjoy both.  In some ways the WRS-5000 feels a little more intuitive, but in others the RM3di feels more comfortable.  Hard to put in to words.
Alot of what I'm thinking is long term system integration and which direction is the best to go.

So my questions are:

  • If you were to be about to move in to one of these systems, which would you choose, and why?
  • Do you feel one has an advantage going forward (future proofing) than the other?
  • The introduction of the Actus or Universalis is interesting - would this sway you one way or another?
  • To RM3di owners.  Does the focusing system (with E-modul) really play a big part in the way you shoot?
  • Does the Arca Swiss set up with a new CS (and FP) shutter system feel like a safer future proof direction to move?

There is a ton of information on this site already regarding lenses etc.  My rough plan is to begin with an SK43 and maybe the Rod32 and something longer in the 60/70 range.

Any other thoughts, comments would also be most welcome

Have a great weekend.

Cheers

Andrew
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DanielStone

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2014, 01:46:00 am »

Quick question:
Have you considered the Linhof Techno as a possibility?
http://www.linhof.com/techno_e.html
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Doug Peterson

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2014, 09:01:14 am »

Have you played with each for a few hours?

These are highly tactile bodies and you can't tell someone which one will feel better for them to work with over the Internet.

There are of course advantages and disadvantages to each. But at the end of the day you could pick either if it feels better to you.

gigdagefg

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2014, 11:04:50 am »

Buy the Rodie 32...IMHO the best lens available today
Stanley
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Kevin Sink

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2014, 11:24:07 am »

For architecture you might consider the Arca L body.  More movements. I feel limited a bit with my Rm3di in that regard.  I have the Rody 32 and the Schneider 60.  Both are without a doubt the best lenses I've used in 25 years as a pro.  Both would be great for architectural work. Every time I open a file from my P65/Arca system with those lenses, I'm blown away by the performance - a joy.
Bottom line: if you're meticulous and detail oriented and don't mind working a bit slower than you can with Cambo, go with the Arca. 
I can shift 10mm left & right of center with the 32mm and at least 15 each way with the 60mm, if not more. Steve Hendrix at Capture Integration has been super supportive after the sale with that system.
Also, you can use the Rm3di mounted on its side and use the greater rise & fall movements as shift. The only drawback for you is you can't employ both tilt AND swing at the same time like on a view camera.
Good luck!
Kevin
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torger

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2014, 01:48:42 pm »

Arca-Swiss is better at future-proofing for the moment, they have more capacity to do things like focal plane shutters and their own electronic shutters than Cambo seems to have, but personally I would not worry about that. It will be many years before we see the end of Copals even if not any new are made, and by then I guess Cambo and even Linhof will have come up with a shutter solution.

For a pancake cam I think high precision focusing is a must, being able to set an exact focus distance direct on the focusing ring without looking is a prime feature and is very useful in architecture. With RM3Di you can do that, with Cambo you need Alpa HPF rings, be sure to check out if so there are no caveats there. Actually, I think Alpa has the best precision/speed tradeoff, RM3Di is a bit overkill precision in that regard, but if you think it's fast enough to turn then it's okay.

With the new Canon TS-Es you can tilt diagonally. That's not possible with the Arca, but it is with Cambo tilt mounts. In architecture I doubt you will miss diagonal tilts though.

If cost is an issue, you could look into getting a Hasselblad CFV-50 (if you can find one) and work with Schneider Digitar wide angles instead of Rodenstock. With that a bit smaller sensor size (49x37mm) you'll experience larger movement range relatively seen which I know I appreciate. But an IQ160 with Rodenstock Digaron-W 32 will be higher end than CFV-50 with Schneider Digitar 28, but also a much higher cost system. The Linhof Techno as suggested above will lower the cost of the system when you have a few lenses as lens mounts are only the cost of a lens board. But sliding back and ground glass is not for everyone. I have a Linhof Techno myself, but I shoot landscape, if I would shoot primarily architecture I would probably go for an Arca-Swiss or Alpa system (some pros still use Linhof Techno for architecture, tastes are different). F-Universalis is also a view camera, ie focus with live view or ground glass.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 02:00:05 pm by torger »
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alatreille

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2014, 01:47:55 am »

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback and the number of PM's that have come across.

All valuable information and opinions.

@ Danielstone - yes, I did look at the Linhof, but I haven't had the chance to review it in person.

@ gigdagefg - Rod 32 is on the list!

@ KevinSink - L body.  Interesting thought.  You note that you're shooting with the P65+.  Are you shooting tethered with this when working photographing a building? I'd ideally like to not shoot tethered or use a very light weight tethering option (I've heard of people using the Microsoft Surface tablet with good success).  This is my thinking behind going to a Credo 60 or IQ 160 - so if needed I could tether USB3.0 to the Surface.
Have you used the Rotaslide on your RM3di?  My brief use of this allowed good and fast horizontal stitching (back in portrait orientation) with a vertical rise/fall as needed for the composition.

@ Torger - An interesting thought.  I actually often use my Canon TSE's for a diagonal movement, but never a diagonal tilt (well, once or twice for a close up).  Your note on the focusing without looking at the focusing ring is something I noted when using the Arca.

Hope everyone had a great weekend.

Cheers
Andrew
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Ken R

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2014, 03:04:39 am »

Hi, I have a RM3Di with Rotamount and use it with my IQ160 back and Rodenstock 40mm and 70mm HR-W lenses. For Architecture I would add a 23mm HR-W lens.

I have the camera rig pretty dialed and love to use it for landscapes. The image quality is second to none mainly due to the lenses which are vastly superior to any SLR lens. They are just breathtakingly sharp/crisp/clear edge to edge.

Used with care this setup will help you get amazing results. Keep in mind working with a tech camera is much more tedious than with any other digital camera setup. Think of it as a system. You need to make sure the shutter cable is connected properly, the sync to the lens and digital back as well and remember to make an LCC capture (using a white translucent plexy filter in front of the lens) whenever you make changes in camera movements and aperture. With the Arca focal distance is computed using a scale (provided with each lens) that corresponds to the numbers (starting from 0) on the focusing ring of the camera body. The good thing is that you can calibrate the focus perfectly on each lens (determine the number on the focusing ring where infinity focus is achieved) and use that number as an offset to the entire scale provided with each lens. I do that once when I first setup the camera after purchase. To determine focus I use a laser first to measure where I want my focus to be and then look up that distance number and the corresponding number in the scale sheet provided with the lens I am using and then set the focusing ring on the body to that number + the previously calculated offset for the lens.

So basically there is no focus distance numbers printed on the focusing ring. That might be intimidating at first but you get used to it quickly and the good thing is that since focus ring / mechanism is fixed on the body rarely do the lenses need to be sent in for calibration due to the focus ring being off on the lens (in Arca mount there is no focus ring / mechanism on each lens obviously)
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Kevin Sink

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2014, 09:48:42 am »

"Are you shooting tethered with this when working photographing a building? I'd ideally like to not shoot tethered or use a very light weight tethering option (I've heard of people using the Microsoft Surface tablet with good success)."

I shoot landscapes primarily but have shot architecture; always untethered.  I have a mathematical way of focusing that is pretty failsafe with the system.  I use the Alpa eFinder ii app for the iPhone to roughly compose & come up with lens choice.  I shoot so as to come up with more image than I'll need through stitching & camera back movements, then crop to taste in post.  I have not used the Rotaslide, but am sort of ignorant about it's use & pros & cons.  Haven't had the need to investigate it.  I think you would love the Arca system.... I do!
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Kevin

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MHFA

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2014, 03:24:40 pm »

The last 6 years I used a SINAR Artec.
(With 23,28,45,90 and 135mm lenses)
Sinar nearly disappeared but it is a very good solution for architecture.


Michael Heinrich
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JamesJetel

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Re: RM3di or WRS-5000
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2014, 09:58:01 pm »

I can't speak to the WRS, but I chose medium format for the glass, and the RM3di for the Helical Focus and available movements (tilt on body as opposed to lens). I'm not sure of your working method, but the precision and repeatability I'm able to achieve makes my life much easier on the backend. One thing I miss are detents - I understand why they wouldn't be there, but I wish they were.

On either body, everything will be slower than shooting with a Canon, but depending on what type of archi shooter you are, speed of shooting is generally the least time consuming of your activities. For exteriors your hyperfocal will take care of most situations, but get ready to LCC each time you make movements - Cock shutter, wake up and release shutter. Chasing light may be a little harder.

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