Canon using Sony sensor in compact: opens up for that high MP DSLR?

[torger]

Maybe I'm the last to notice, but it seems like the new compact Canon G7X uses a BSI CMOS from Sony. I don't think Canon has actually confirmed that it is Sony, but they've said it's not an in-house sensor and the data looks very very similar to that of RX-100 series. In other words, it's highly likely that it is a Sony sensor.

I thought Canon only used Canon sensors in their cameras, but perhaps it has been different in the compact range? If not, maybe this is a sign that maybe Canon will consider using a Sony sensor to make a competing offer in the high MP DSLR niche, something many Canon users badly want since day one of the D800.

I'd much rather see Canon use a Sony sensor in this type of camera. Sony's Exmor sensor is class-leading by a margin when it comes to base ISO high MP image quality, while Canon has become known to be worst with lower DR and pattern noise at base ISO.

The D800 was released in early 2012 and we're now approaching late 2014 and Canon has not been able to come up with a competing offer. Rather than waiting for their inhouse sensor technology to catch up, maybe it's time to bridge the gap by getting a Sony sensor just like everyone else is doing?

[BernardLanguillier]

Canon does have a history of using Sony sensors in their compact range.

Cheers,
Bernard

[torger]

 

...and I that hoped for a breakthrough in sensor policy

[Manoli]

Canon does have a history of using Sony sensors in their compact range.

Shouldn't that read 'Canon does have a recent history ...' ?

M

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Shouldn't that read 'Canon does have a recent history ...' ?

No, they've been using Sony sensors for their compacts for ages already, as far as we know. Their own production capacity is probably not enough to generate those kind of volumes, so it is mostly used for the larger sensors (which they pioneered).

Cheers,
Bart

[Manoli]

No, they've been using Sony sensors for their compacts for ages already, as far as we know.

I stand corrected - I thought that the first Canon camera to use Sony sensors was the S95 (2010). Were they also being used in the earlier IXUS models ?

[deejjjaaaa]

which they pioneered

speaking about FF dSLRs that will be Phillips FF sensor in Contax camera - technically their actual sales (even miniscule) began before Canon announcement in Sep 2002... and APS-C/APS-H were first Kodak sensors in cameras from Kodak...

[John Koerner]

Rather than waiting for their inhouse sensor technology to catch up, maybe it's time to bridge the gap by getting a Sony sensor just like everyone else is doing?

They should either 1) produce better sensors or 2) admit they can't, stick a Sony sensor in there, and then let the rest of what they do (i.e., have the best lens line-up) be their selling point.

It is stupid to be content to remain on the low-end of technology by being too prideful to outsource in areas where they themselves no longer excel.

"Pride cometh before the fall ..."

[deejjjaaaa]

They should either 1) produce better sensors or 2) admit they can't, stick a Sony sensor in there

why ? as a for profit company they do pretty well w/ their current sensors... take Ricoh/Pentax - they can put the best sensors and get the best DR out of them but marketsharewise where they are ? we can assume that it cost Canon quite less money to use their own sensors vs buying from Sony Semi and so they just watch their bottom line...

[torger]

why ?

Having a state of the art camera in all genres can be important in the long term, so customers feel that they can invest in Canon regardless which direction their shooting will take.

The reason they haven't released a high MP camera with a Sony sensor I think is more about Canon/Japanese company culture rather than a good market strategy. They could have released a Sony-based high MP camera in say 2013 and then work with their own high MP tech for the next generation.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

speaking about FF dSLRs that will be Phillips FF sensor in Contax camera - technically their actual sales (even miniscule) began before Canon announcement in Sep 2002... and APS-C/APS-H were first Kodak sensors in cameras from Kodak...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canond30

, add to this the fact that Canon threw a curved ball by using the first ever multi-megapixel CMOS sensor to be seen in a production camera and you can see why the EOS-D30 is significant.

I haven't bothered to look up when their patents were filed ...

Cheers,
Bart

[eronald]

The D800 preceded the A7R, and cashed in on the hi-rez trend, but sometime in the future Sony may decide that generosity starts at home.
I am sure Canon dSLRs have first choice from their own production line.


Edmund

[BernardLanguillier]

The D800 preceded the A7R, and cashed in on the hi-rez trend, but sometime in the future Sony may decide that generosity starts at home.
I am sure Canon dSLRs have first choice from their own production line.

True, but 2 of the recent Nikon DX bodies use Toshiba sensor and measure pretty much the same as the Sony ones on DxO. My view is that reliance of Nikon on Sony is over blown.

Besides, the Sony group is deep enough in trouble that I doubt they would prevent their profitable semi-conductor division from selling parts to their, by far, largest historical customer, would they? Realistically, Nikon would sell a lot more 54mp sensors than Sony ever could. What could happen though is an inflation of the price of those parts, that's pretty much it.

Cheers,
Bernard

[torger]

In this short interview made by DPReview:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7079726133/photokina-2014-canon-interview-mirrorless-in-the-very-near-future

A Canon executive does say that we can expect a higher resolution alternative in the "near future". Concerning using sensors from other brands he claims that they've always used the best sensor for the task, regardless of manufacturer, but that he thinks Canon sensors are the best. And sure, Canon sensors do have some strong points and are very all-around, but they're not state of the art concerning base ISO DR or resolution.

From the past I've got the sense that in Canon's mind there's no point to have a whole lot of extra DR at base ISO, since you're shooting these handheld cameras at higher ISOs most of the time anyway (where Canon do have good performance). Thus I would not be surprised if the coming high resolution camera indeed both has a Canon sensor and the same type of noisy base ISO that we're used to seeing from Canon.

If that is the case, I wonder how successful that camera will be.

[deejjjaaaa]

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canond30
I haven't bothered to look up when their patents were filed ...

D30 was 1.6 APS-C in 2000, even in your link = "it's Canon's first "home grown" digital SLR, built from the ground up to be a digital SLR, their previous forays into the digital SLR world, the EOS-D2000 and EOS-D6000 were joint ventures with Kodak (Canon bodies with Kodak internals), these cameras are also known as the DCS520 and DCS560. " ... and in 1995 Kodak 1.3x APS-H was = http://www.dpreview.com/products/kodak/slrs/kodak_dcs460.... in 1995.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

D30 was 1.6 APS-C in 2000, even in your link = "it's Canon's first "home grown" digital SLR, built from the ground up to be a digital SLR, their previous forays into the digital SLR world, the EOS-D2000 and EOS-D6000 were joint ventures with Kodak (Canon bodies with Kodak internals), these cameras are also known as the DCS520 and DCS560. " ... and in 1995 Kodak 1.3x APS-H was = http://www.dpreview.com/products/kodak/slrs/kodak_dcs460.... in 1995.

Kodak has been delivering CCD based cameras for a long time, in Nikon and Canon body versions. I know from first first hand experience, we sold a lot of them. Those early DSLR models have nothing to do with my mention of Canon's pioneering the commercial use of CMOS image sensor equipment for those professional photography markets. Kodak has been selling all sorts of image sensors (mostly CCD), but Canon made the use of CMOS image sensors for DSLRs possible when everybody else said that CMOS was inferior (small fill factor/noise etc.). Not sure what your point is.

Cheers,
Bart

[deejjjaaaa]

Kodak has been delivering CCD based cameras for a long time, in Nikon and Canon body versions. I know from first first hand experience, we sold a lot of them. Those early DSLR models have nothing to do with my mention of Canon's pioneering the commercial use of CMOS image sensor equipment for those professional photography markets. Kodak has been selling all sorts of image sensors (mostly CCD), but Canon made the use of CMOS image sensors for DSLRs possible when everybody else said that CMOS was inferior (small fill factor/noise etc.). Not sure what your point is.

Cheers,
Bart

your original text was "so it is mostly used for the larger sensors (which they pioneered)." - Canon did not pioneer larger sensors... unless you will start attaching a lot of strings to that - like pioneered using large CMOS sensors in consumer level dSLR cameras that were relatively affordable for masses... then yes indeed.

[Manoli]

When did Canon first use a SONY sensor in a compact ?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Most of the time.

Best regards
Erik

When did Canon first use a SONY sensor in a compact ?

[Manoli]

Most of the time.

Anything specific ?

I thought that the first Canon camera to use a Sony sensor was the S95 (2010).