If B&W is getting "in demand" why not...

[allegretto]

Could a manufacturer via software render all pixels monochromatic and then use them all?

Seems easy enough to someone like me who knows nothing of the EE work it would entail, so maybe not

But if it could it would be a strong "feature" for still or video

[MoreOrLess]

Given the potential advantages in low light performance I must admit I'm quite surprised nobody but Leica and Hassleblad have offered monochrome sensors.

Olympus or Fuji especially seem well placed to go this route, small cameras that appeal to street shooters and offering a monochrome body could combat the disadvantage in noise performance of their smaller formats.

[melchiorpavone]

Could a manufacturer via software render all pixels monochromatic and then use them all?

Seems easy enough to someone like me who knows nothing of the EE work it would entail, so maybe not

But if it could it would be a strong "feature" for still or video

Maybe you have not heard but Leica has a B&W-only camera:

http://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/Leica-M-Monochrom

[allegretto]

yes yes

but for me an investment in an M240 and an MM is a bit over the top

not talking about a different body. Talking about re-routing the signal thru the right processor. Could be firmware controlled

[Jim Kasson]

Given the potential advantages in low light performance I must admit I'm quite surprised nobody but Leica and Hassleblad have offered monochrome sensors.

Don't forget Phase One:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/achromatic.shtml

Jim

[deejjjaaaa]

not talking about a different body. Talking about re-routing the signal thru the right processor. Could be firmware controlled

you can do this during raw conversion/post processing... does not make sense for a manufacturer to spend money for a very niche market unless they can charge a premium like Leica for example

[allegretto]

you can do this during raw conversion/post processing... does not make sense for a manufacturer to spend money for a very niche market unless they can charge a premium like Leica for example

not the same as recruiting all pixels for IQ

[melchiorpavone]

yes yes

but for me an investment in an M240 and an MM is a bit over the top

not talking about a different body. Talking about re-routing the signal thru the right processor. Could be firmware controlled

It's not the same. You have color filters on regular sensors. Those are removed in the Leica sensor, and the sensitivity is thus much higher.

[allegretto]

It's not the same. You have color filters on regular sensors. Those are removed in the Leica sensor, and the sensitivity is thus much higher.

it also uses twice the pixels...

[melchiorpavone]

it also uses twice the pixels...

Maybe 4x?

[allegretto]

Maybe 4x?

correct me if I'm wrong but the image info is all green which is 50% of the pixels. No change in sensor size so it's a simple double… yes squared area, but same image size

[melchiorpavone]

correct me if I'm wrong but the image info is all green which is 50% of the pixels. No change in sensor size so it's a simple double… yes squared area, but same image size

Huh? It takes 4 cells to make 1 pixel in color (Bayer pattern), it takes 1 with the Leica system.

[Iluvmycam]

Given the potential advantages in low light performance I must admit I'm quite surprised nobody but Leica and Hassleblad have offered monochrome sensors.

Olympus or Fuji especially seem well placed to go this route, small cameras that appeal to street shooters and offering a monochrome body could combat the disadvantage in noise performance of their smaller formats.

I don't know about low light. I got 2 MM's. They are noisy as hell above 2000 to 2500. They are useless for me at much higher levels.

[allegretto]

Huh? It takes 4 cells to make 1 pixel in color (Bayer pattern), it takes 1 with the Leica system.

yes, but we are talking about number of pixels available for IQ. In Bayer, only the green provide IQ and there are 2X green to every one red and one blue.

If all four are used for IQ that makes 4 not 2, no?

Seems like a double to me...

[melchiorpavone]

yes, but we are talking about number of pixels available for IQ. In Bayer, only the green provide IQ and there are 2X green to every one red and one blue.

If all four are used for IQ that makes 4 not 2, no?

Seems like a double to me...

Sorry, I don't understand.

[Telecaster]

Could a manufacturer via software render all pixels monochromatic and then use them all?

To do this you have to alter the effect of each R, G & B filter in the Bayer array. Current image processors attempt to do this algorithmically, generally with decent results. But a filter with variable bandwidth and variable peak wavelength would do the job properly. First, though, someone will have to invent it.   

-Dave-

[deejjjaaaa]

not the same as recruiting all pixels for IQ

you were saying "Talking about re-routing the signal thru the right processor" so you imply that CFA are present, just you want some processing in camera to invert what filters do with spectrum... why 'd you need to bog the camera, when you can do this off camera ?

[Ellis Vener]

Huh? It takes 4 cells to make 1 pixel in color (Bayer pattern)

No.

It takes the color luminance information from a photoreceptor  (AKA pixel) plus that of the surrounding pixel to make a full set of color values at any single pixel's absolute location.  With that full RGB value for every X/y coordinate  you then do a color to monochrome conversion.

[uaiomex]

What I think Allegreto means is for the manufacturer to implement in firmware the capability for the bayer pattern pixels to go completely color blind. Then proceed to de-mosaic the capture in the monochrom way.

I undestand this would be different to only de-saturating the colors in camera to produce a b&w image or to do it by de-saturation later in post.

If this is true, the gain would be to have the extra resolution of monochrome sensors but without the gain in light gathering because the color filters. So no cleaner images, but better resolved.

Eduardo

[melchiorpavone]

Huh? It takes 4 cells to make 1 pixel in color (Bayer pattern)

No.

It takes the color luminance information from a photoreceptor  (AKA pixel) plus that of the surrounding pixel to make a full set of color values at any single pixel's absolute location.  With that full RGB value for every X/y coordinate  you then do a color to monochrome conversion.

4 cells to make a complete pixel, at least.