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Author Topic: Fotokina 2014  (Read 21186 times)

LesPalenik

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Fotokina 2014
« on: September 16, 2014, 07:21:39 pm »

Thanks you Kevin and Michael for the timely Fotokina news. Can't wait for the reports from the rest of the halls.

Quote
For Canon it was the 7D and Nikon the the 710.

Is there a new Nikon D710 or is it a shorthand for 810 and 750?

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ndevlin

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2014, 09:31:37 pm »


Pretty sure that's jetlag talking: it's the 810 and 750.

Btw, I just realized the 7DII is freakin' APS-C.....I had assumed all along it was full frame. WTF? This is 2014. Makes you wonder if Canon's entire R&D division died on a plane crash five years ago.

- N.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2014, 10:27:59 pm »

Funny, you should mention this to Scott Kelby. He just sent me an email with his take on Canon 7D MkII:

"I think one of the biggest advantages this new camera has (and a lot of folks might not realize this at first), is that itís a crop-sensor camera, so it brings you 60% closer to the action than a similar full-frame camera. This allows us to use less expensive lenses and still get in really tight, so the 7D Mark II doesnít just change the equation for the body; it lets you get closer to the action with less expensive lenses. I think not making this a full frame camera may have been Canonís most brilliant move."



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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2014, 10:34:21 pm »

... Scott Kelby.... his take on Canon 7D MkII:

"...I think not making this a full frame camera may have been Canonís most brilliant move."

The only "brilliant" thing here seems to be Kelby's spinning skill: if they made it a full-frame, it would not be 7D anymore, would it, Mr. Kelby?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2014, 10:35:39 pm »

... WTF? This is 2014. Makes you wonder if Canon's entire R&D division died on a plane crash five years ago.

+1  :)

LesPalenik

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2014, 10:51:37 pm »

In my defense and to clarify my previous post - I am just a messenger, and I never approved the "brilliant" part.
And to clarify it further, we really don't exchange personal emails,  the aforementioned statement was one of those mass bombardments I get daily.

As to the actual perpetrator, he has a record of trying to be funny.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 11:04:06 pm by LesPalenik »
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MoreOrLess

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2014, 03:25:13 am »

Funny, you should mention this to Scott Kelby. He just sent me an email with his take on Canon 7D MkII:

"I think one of the biggest advantages this new camera has (and a lot of folks might not realize this at first), is that itís a crop-sensor camera, so it brings you 60% closer to the action than a similar full-frame camera. This allows us to use less expensive lenses and still get in really tight, so the 7D Mark II doesnít just change the equation for the body; it lets you get closer to the action with less expensive lenses. I think not making this a full frame camera may have been Canonís most brilliant move."

This is obviously more of an issue for Canon as well, a D810 is going to give you a 16 MP ASPC crop where I'd guess the 5D3 would be around 10 MP with a 1.5 crop, the 6D and 1DX even less.

The most significant thing about the event to me seems to be the continued growth of the high end compact market from Canon, Panasonic and Leica.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 03:30:15 am by MoreOrLess »
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2014, 04:15:31 am »

Pretty sure that's jetlag talking: it's the 810 and 750.

Btw, I just realized the 7DII is freakin' APS-C.....I had assumed all along it was full frame. WTF? This is 2014. Makes you wonder if Canon's entire R&D division died on a plane crash five years ago.

- N.

It's a freakin`7D why would it be FF??? Your assumption just shows how ignorant you are about Canon's product line. Want FF Canon? You can get the 1DX, 5DMKIII, or 6D.

dreed

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2014, 07:27:45 am »

Pretty sure that's jetlag talking: it's the 810 and 750.

Btw, I just realized the 7DII is freakin' APS-C.....I had assumed all along it was full frame. WTF? This is 2014. Makes you wonder if Canon's entire R&D division died on a plane crash five years ago.

You're not the only one thinking that/talking about Canon's lack of direction. My next Canon mount camera is going to be the A7 + metabones.

Michael was smart to sell out of Canon, was it 4 or 5 years ago?
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dreed

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2014, 07:31:31 am »

Funny, you should mention this to Scott Kelby. He just sent me an email with his take on Canon 7D MkII:

"I think one of the biggest advantages this new camera has (and a lot of folks might not realize this at first), is that itís a crop-sensor camera, so it brings you 60% closer to the action than a similar full-frame camera. This allows us to use less expensive lenses and still get in really tight, so the 7D Mark II doesnít just change the equation for the body; it lets you get closer to the action with less expensive lenses. I think not making this a full frame camera may have been Canonís most brilliant move."

Given the upgrade in AF and fps, it'll probably sell quite well with many 7D owners upgrading (and potentially rebel owners too). When you've seeded the consumer space as well as Canon has, all that they need to do is turn the wheel a turn out another facsimile camera and enough people will buy them for Canon to recoup its R&D.
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ndevlin

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2014, 07:54:02 am »

The only "brilliant" thing here seems to be Kelby's spinning skill: if they made it a full-frame, it would not be 7D anymore, would it, Mr. Kelby?

I like Scott, but this this logical pretzel-twist is staggering. Good thin he's not saying it in a witness box  ;)

And yes, I am ignorant of Canon's lineup because it is so freakin' sad.  The 7D2 was touted as their big announcement so I assumed it was something interesting that mattered.  They've done nothing innovative in five years.  It hurts to watch.  If I had Canon's corporate power and capacity, this is not the sort of weak nonsense you'd be seeing.  Equally sadly, it seems to sell just well enough for them to continue down this path.  I'd like to shoot a 1Ds from 2002 against the 7DII.  Bet the former holds up remarkably in terms of IQ. 
 
And 4K vid on the S2....now THAT's innovative.  People who shoot serious commercial video are one of the few markets that could actually afford their lenses.  Smart.

- N.
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Hans Kruse

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2014, 09:47:56 am »

I like Scott, but this this logical pretzel-twist is staggering. Good thin he's not saying it in a witness box  ;)

And yes, I am ignorant of Canon's lineup because it is so freakin' sad.  The 7D2 was touted as their big announcement so I assumed it was something interesting that mattered.  They've done nothing innovative in five years.  It hurts to watch.  If I had Canon's corporate power and capacity, this is not the sort of weak nonsense you'd be seeing.  Equally sadly, it seems to sell just well enough for them to continue down this path.  I'd like to shoot a 1Ds from 2002 against the 7DII.  Bet the former holds up remarkably in terms of IQ. 
 
And 4K vid on the S2....now THAT's innovative.  People who shoot serious commercial video are one of the few markets that could actually afford their lenses.  Smart.

- N.

It seems to me that you are ignorant of what Canon has done in recent years. They have refreshed a huge part of the lens lineup with really state of the art lenses. The 7D II is a smart move to serve the segment of action and wild life shooters who cannot afford the full frame price of bodies and lenses. The totally new high performance AF system and 10fps on a body at this price smokes what is available at this point from any competitor. You can call this innovative or not, but it makes a lot of business sense to me although I'm not buying one. The other part that you might not have gotten either is the new sensor with phase detection AF on the sensor for movie and live view. It's a first for an APS-C DSLR camera and suggest what will come on the next full frame from Canon. Making a camera that competes with the 1DX is smart and innovative.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2014, 10:23:42 am »

... what will come on the next full frame from Canon...

Ah, the next... always the "next"... sometimes in the future... just wait for Photokina... oh, damn! it is Photokina... ok, fine, the next one... peddling hope is quite "innovative"... but works... at least for one president.

Hans Kruse

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2014, 10:50:09 am »

Ah, the next... always the "next"... sometimes in the future... just wait for Photokina... oh, damn! it is Photokina... ok, fine, the next one... peddling hope is quite "innovative"... but works... at least for one president.

There is always a next, isn't there? We discuss what is here now and what is coming next. Some seem to not understand what is here now.  I'm not waiting for the next, I shoot with what I have as always :)

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2014, 11:34:09 am »

Ah, the next... always the "next"... sometimes in the future... just wait for Photokina... oh, damn! it is Photokina... ok, fine, the next one... peddling hope is quite "innovative"... but works... at least for one president.

I wonder, looking at Canon's current offerings in the EOS system, what is actually missing that could curtail the endeavours of a photographer that wants to use a DSLR? I mean, if I can not make a decent photo with such a system, I would first blame me, not the gear. But I suppose all the pros using Canon must be wrong...

barryfitzgerald

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2014, 11:49:12 am »

Newer= better = more fun = more profits

Always has worked always will we do live in a consumer driven society (like it or not) and that's simply the way things are.
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hubell

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2014, 01:59:38 pm »

Nice report so far. Thanks. However, instead of the last photograph in the report showing the Hasselblad Lunar or Stellar or whaever, you really should have shown a photograph of a Phamiya DF++++ with the same caption. It's bad enough that it's still around, but for how many years has Phase been promising/hinting at a brand new, state of the art camera body? To me, that is the surprise of the show so far.

Kevin Raber

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2014, 04:15:17 pm »

We just finished the day today and there will be no report today as there are not an more minutes left.  We had good meetings today with numerous companies including Sigma.  Tomorrow we meet with Fuji, Phase One and others.  We'll have some interesting things to share soon.

Kevin

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Kevin Raber
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2014, 05:21:04 pm »

I wonder, looking at Canon's current offerings in the EOS system, what is actually missing that could curtail the endeavours of a photographer that wants to use a DSLR? I mean, if I can not make a decent photo with such a system, I would first blame me, not the gear. But I suppose all the pros using Canon must be wrong...

Odds are that some of those pros will be shooting Samsung cameras and lenses in 5 years from now if things stay on the same curve.

There is a huge amount of inertia in the DSLR world because of the lock up caused by non compatible lens mounts but disruptive technologies have proven able in the past to overcome this inertia.
- Nikon has succeeded to attract a significant chunck of landscape shooters but has done so by iterating better on the sensor side,
- mirrorless has started to eat away low end DSLRs,
- Sigma is making breakthroughs in core lenses,
- Sony is being innovative,
- Samsung is now attacking the actin camera segment
- ...

Yes, Canon will still have the most diverse lens line up with a few unique propositions but a camera like the NX1 is a potentiall game changer combined with the apparent inability of Canon to do more than mere iterations of existing bodies.

This has to be understood in the context of the repeated failure of the Japanese consumer electronic industry in most segments against samsung. Be it TVs, phones,... They saw it coming huge time and are still unable years later to come up with anything game changing. Canon has IMHO not shown any encouraging sign for years that they will fare better. Nikon is similar but they at least tried something different with their mirrorless offering that is differentiated.

So yes, it will remain possible to take amazing images with the Canon and Nikon systems, probably better for some niche applications, but where is this headed?

The funny thing is that we, existing Canon and Nikon users, are contributing to this downfall by comforting those brands in the feeling that they are still doing the right thing... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 05:38:20 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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MoreOrLess

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Re: Fotokina 2014
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2014, 06:10:19 pm »

The key factor with the NX1 is surely the AF system, if that lags behind its DSLR competition I don't see it getting significant market share outside S Korea even with the higher FPS. That nationalism gives Samsung a strong home market does I'd say explain why they moreso than any of the other mirrorless manufacturers have been willing to go toe to toe with DSLR's so directly.
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