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Author Topic: The Mirrorless Revolution  (Read 30912 times)

Hans Kruse

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2014, 06:27:57 pm »

The professional sector has got to be a tiny minority in terms of purchasing.
Sydney is a major tourist hub, and as I walk around I've been (admittedly) surprised at the increasing amount of tourists holding up a tablet or smartphone to snap a group shot or local landmark.
Other than that, you mostly see Fuji/Nex sized bodies around the necks of tourists. On the odd occasion I come across a tourist lugging a Nikon or Canon body around, with a zoom the size of a wine bottle, I gotta admit I presume they are mad.

Is that your way of challenging the sales statistics? It's not only professionals that purchase DSLR's and the majority were never purchased by professionals. I could walk down the streets of Copenhagen and not see a single DSLR and conclude that all pictures are taken with a smart phone :D

JV

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2014, 06:29:26 pm »

Very entertaining video!  Thank you!

There are a lot of theories online about the origin of the Fuji sensor.  It really would be good to finally know the truth...

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deejjjaaaa

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2014, 07:28:03 pm »

Making an entirely new lens mount and a new body like Sony did, Canon and Nikon could do overnight after having done the first mirror less model that fits the existing lens line. They would then have to launch an entirely new lens line for that body which would take years to make
they did launch already if you didn't notice... Nikon 1 and EOS-M... were you asleep ? you do not really need to launch w/ dozens of lenses - nobody in dSLM world started with many lenses for new mounts - neither m43 nor Sony nor minor/obscure players like Samsung, Fuji, Ricoh/Pentax (not counting Leica - it is not a new mount).
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Chrisso26

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2014, 07:56:52 pm »

Is that your way of challenging the sales statistics? It's not only professionals that purchase DSLR's and the majority were never purchased by professionals. I could walk down the streets of Copenhagen and not see a single DSLR and conclude that all pictures are taken with a smart phone :D

Hey…. it's a friendly debate. I honestly could care less who uses DSLR's and who uses smartphones. I just mentioned two things I personally see…..
1) The press gallery exclusively seems to use large body Nikon and Canon systems.
2) The majority of tourists in Sydney are carrying a small mirrorless or just using a phone or tablet.
It really isn't a crime to state your observations, especially as they somewhat chime with the views expressed in the video.
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Telecaster

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2014, 10:33:07 pm »

In my eight days at Grand Canyon National Park last March I saw less than ten SLRs. In fact I saw more folks taking pics with iPads than with SLRs. Smartphones totally dominated. Next were compacts and (mostly Sony NEX) mirrorless. The strong presence of Asian & European tour groups may've had some impact on the scarcity of SLRs…but this summer on my frequent nature trail walks in the greater Detroit area I've seen noticeably more mirrorless cameras in use than last year. I spotted two Sony A7rs for sure this past Saturday in addition to a gal using one of the big white Canon teles with what I think was a Sony and another shooting video with a Panasonic GH model. Things are changing, even in the US.

-Dave-
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2014, 10:37:21 pm »

Thanks for the video!

It's just great to have more options and to be able to reach higher levels of quality in smaller packages. Too bad for Nikon and Canon if they keep misunderstanding what the market needs.

As far as I am concerned, I'll soon be the owner of a Sony a5100 that will replace my Nikon 1 gear (the 1 still has the best AF, some unique features, but image quality is in the end too much of a compromise still). I find the a5100 to be the best compromise right now for an easy to carry, high end compact substitute with usable AF and excellent image quality.

When I go somewhere to take pictures, I still see nothing beating the D810 and its bulk is not a problem for me. Its flying domain is still hard to beat, ranging from T/S lenses, the very best primes and superb long lenses for low light action such as the 300mm f2.8. Low to high ISO image quality also doesn't impose any practical compromise for real world applications, it can take rain and snow without concerns, its double memory card set up ensures that image loss is never a concern,...

It wouldn't make sense to like big for the sake of big, but I don't see right now why I should compromise on quality/abilities to favor small when big isn't big enough that it becomes a problem. Now, I understand that I probably belong to a minority and that a growing majority of people see small as an ever increasingly important feature.

I just hope that Nikon and Canon decide to use the financial capacity/credibility they still have today to continue to push the high end DSLR envelope AND to add relevant mirrorless offerings in parallel to those. The only reason being that I am heavily invested in F mount lenses and really like the glass I am using. Some of it is MF and would work just as well on bodies from other makes with a shorter flange distance, some of it is AF and needs a Nikon body.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 04:36:22 am by BernardLanguillier »
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pcgpcg

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2014, 11:41:09 pm »

I like the ergonomics of DSLRs. Teensy camera bodies don't feel right in the hands.
I have large hands and have never had a camera feel so good and useable in my hand as the E-M1.  It's a great one-handed camera (with the 12-40 Pro zoom). You should try it.
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Hans Kruse

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2014, 03:20:04 am »

they did launch already if you didn't notice... Nikon 1 and EOS-M... were you asleep ? you do not really need to launch w/ dozens of lenses - nobody in dSLM world started with many lenses for new mounts - neither m43 nor Sony nor minor/obscure players like Samsung, Fuji, Ricoh/Pentax (not counting Leica - it is not a new mount).


Did I mentioned the EOS-M already? Yes, I did. The Nikon-1 is a (very) small sensor and neither really a contender. Were you asleep while your read my post? ;)

Hans Kruse

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2014, 05:31:03 am »

Thanks for the video!

It's just great to have more options and to be able to reach higher levels of quality in smaller packages. Too bad for Nikon and Canon if they keep misunderstanding what the market needs.

As far as I am concerned, I'll soon be the owner of a Sony a5100 that will replace my Nikon 1 gear (the 1 still has the best AF, some unique features, but image quality is in the end too much of a compromise still). I find the a5100 to be the best compromise right now for an easy to carry, high end compact substitute with usable AF and excellent image quality.

When I go somewhere to take pictures, I still see nothing beating the D810 and its bulk is not a problem for me. Its flying domain is still hard to beat, ranging from T/S lenses, the very best primes and superb long lenses for low light action such as the 300mm f2.8. Low to high ISO image quality also doesn't impose any practical compromise for real world applications, it can take rain and snow without concerns, its double memory card set up ensures that image loss is never a concern,...

It wouldn't make sense to like big for the sake of big, but I don't see right now why I should compromise on quality/abilities to favor small when big isn't big enough that it becomes a problem. Now, I understand that I probably belong to a minority and that a growing majority of people see small as an ever increasingly important feature.

I just hope that Nikon and Canon decide to use the financial capacity/credibility they still have today to continue to push the high end DSLR envelope AND to add relevant mirrorless offerings in parallel to those. The only reason being that I am heavily invested in F mount lenses and really like the glass I am using. Some of it is MF and would work just as well on bodies from other makes with a shorter flange distance, some of it is AF and needs a Nikon body.

Cheers,
Bernard


I was considering for a while to add a smaller camera and thought about the Olympus OMD, the Fuji XT-1 or even similar smaller bodies until I realized that this was not going to change that much compared to taking e.g. a Canon 5D mkIII and the Canon 24-70 f/2.8L II over the shoulder when walking a city when I had my gear with me anyway. What I needed and wanted was a much smaller camera that I could put into my pocket without a photo bag at all. I decided on the Sony RX100 mkIII. And it is a real companion to my DSLR's (Canon 5D III and Nikon D810/D800E). Although the IQ is good it is nowhere near the DSLR quality, of course, but good enough for the casual shots that it is intended to do.

I do think the both Canon and Nikon engineers are having prototypes of high-end mirror less cameras in their labs and working on replacing the mirror box with air. The main advantage a slightly small form factor and weight and durability. But battery life would be challenged. For sports and wild life shooters there could be advantages too when the negatives have been engineered out of the way. To call Canon and Nikon dino's is a great misunderstanding of the realities.

A revolution? I have some difficulty to see this is a real revolution. It's more like en evolution since the cameras kind of look the same, have interchangeable lenses but lack a mirror box. The only contender for the highend DSLR's and only non action is the Sony A7R and we are still waiting for a decent lens lineup. And do we trust that Sony will stick to the full frame E-mount and further develop this? How was it that Sony reacted to the shutter shake issues that have been brought up by many reviewers and users and clearly demonstrated as an issue? Well they reacted like Canon and Nikon used to react: Silence.

When do we see a real revolution? The smart phone was a revolution in how people shoot pictures and share them. It wiped out the bottom end of the camera industry in stand alone cameras, just like many other stand alone gadgets have been wiped out since they are no longer needed. And wiped out entire companies as well. This was a revolution!

Hans Kruse

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2014, 05:57:16 am »

Hey…. it's a friendly debate. I honestly could care less who uses DSLR's and who uses smartphones. I just mentioned two things I personally see…..
1) The press gallery exclusively seems to use large body Nikon and Canon systems.
2) The majority of tourists in Sydney are carrying a small mirrorless or just using a phone or tablet.
It really isn't a crime to state your observations, especially as they somewhat chime with the views expressed in the video.

Sure :) But you referred to people carrying a DSLR in a less than respectful way. When you refer to tourists, what would the situation have been 5 years ago? Probably a lot of the tourists would have carried mirror less cameras at that time as well. They were just called point and shoot and various forms. I do agree that the bottom end of the DSLR market where people buy a low end DSLR with a single lens like have and will be replaced by a smaller system, but that could as well be a camera with a larger sensor and a single lens like the Canon G1X II which has good IQ and is very portable although not pocketable.

But my point was, as you could see in my response, that tourists in Sydney hardly is statistics for the market of DSLR's versus mirror less interchangeable systems.

I do think that many who would have bought an entry level DSLR with a kit lens and nothing else would later consider a different camera.

Another questions is: Who was the video intended for? Was it the LuLa audience who are supposed to be interested in photography and enthusiasts and some professionals? If yes, then I think the discussion is not about tourists in the Sydney harbor, but about how the enthusiast market develops. I run photo workshops and have so since 2008 and my statistics over several hundred participants in these workshops is although not statistically significant for any conclusions: Up and until last year, the majority were Canon and Nikon DSLR shooters with a number of good lenses. A few had a mirror less camera with a couple of lenses or an all in one camera. A few had medium format cameras like Pentax 645D, Hassy and Phase One. This year 3 came with a Sony A7R, one Fuji XT-1, one Olympus OMD, two Pentax K3 and the rest were Canon and Nikon and a single Sony DSLR. The ones who camera with the A7R all had another system with them. The Sony's were only used on the side and not as the main camera. There is no doubt that the Sony has had and will have an impact on the enthusiast market, but it is still too early to judge how real this is. I have seen a couple who sold their DSLR's and bought a Fuji XT-1 system or Olympus OMD. I doubt that there will be a wholesale give-up on the DSLR in this segment of the market. For the DSLR's for landscape shooting I do recommend to shoot them as mirror less (in live view) since Canon has EFC shutter and now also Nikon with the D810. So there is nothing to stop a landscape shooter from going mirror less if the IQ is there and the lenses are there. Sony does not quite deliver on this at the moment, but in a year from they probably have fixed the EFC shutter problem on the A7R with a A7R II with the same sensor as the D810 and a lens lineup that is challenging the lenses like Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, Nikon 14-24 f/2.8, Nikon 70-200 f/4 VR, Canon 24-70 f/2.8L II and Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II. So in this segment the only contender is Sony, not Pentax, not Olympus, not Panasonic and not Fuji. Unless, of course, you don't print big. Or want to be prepared for 4K and 8K displays and especially the latter will challenge the resolution of todays smaller systems. The could in the future be entirely new display technology like projectors that could support 8K resolution.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 06:01:59 am by Hans Kruse »
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Torbjörn Tapani

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Re:
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2014, 07:46:16 am »

Hans, I think your point about shooting a DSLR as mirrorless will seal the deal in the end. The potential for higher quality without the mirror and electronic aid in liveview or EVF will make the mirrorbox completely redundant for a lot of people.
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Hans Kruse

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Re:
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2014, 07:51:14 am »

Hans, I think your point about shooting a DSLR as mirrorless will seal the deal in the end. The potential for higher quality without the mirror and electronic aid in liveview or EVF will make the mirrorbox completely redundant for a lot of people.

Yes, for landscapes this is my recommendation, but when I shoot birds with my Canon 500 f/4L IS I definitely enjoy the fast autofocus of the Canon 5D mkIII :) For action also similar I need the fast AF on the DSLR. That's the status quo for me.

bcooter

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2014, 07:51:49 am »

Sure :)and the rest were Canon and Nikon



I have different uses for cameras, especially the mirrorless type, than what's mentioned in this video

Our use is nearly always a combination of stills and video.  

Since video requires more accessories, like a cage, a preamp, sometimes external power, using a camera like the gh4 vs. the 70d the size/weight advantage for me is not that much different.

In fact, after using our RED 1's and scarlet so often now anything under 12 pounds feels lightweight.

I went with the gh3's because they offered decent video and for some scenes in video good autofocus tracking, pretty good for stills.

Later bought the olympus omd em5 and em1, just because I wanted to.  The em5 producing a better still file but the em-1 a much better camera.

But the kicker on the smaller 4/3 cameras is the small sensor.  I don't want 100% blurred background focus, but do want to be able to control the look and separate the main subject and the 4/3 cameras are difficult to do that with.

So for our current project we are shooting with the 70d for motion imagery, my 1dx for stills as it uses the same lens set and our RED scarlet with a Canon mount once again to use the same lens set.

Bottom line the 4/3's stay in the case and so far I've only used them for scenes with car mounts.

I wanted very much to go wit the Sony A series, the 7s and 7R as I felt they would give me the best of both worlds, high quality stills and decent video but passed due to the lack of tracking focuses on both cameras and the fact the 7s in video will skew with  jello effect way too easily.

Personally, the best camera of the lot, which is more of a hybrid than mirrorless is the 70d because with an apsc format the skew is less than full frame, the video follow focus is good, high iso to around 1200 or 1600 in a pinch is fine as long as I grade in Resolve.

What made the 70d come alive is the technicolor profile which gets very close to matching my set up with the RED's.

The only issue of the 70d is not skewing or detail at 2k, but the line skipping shows alassing on background subjects like fence rails that have strong horizontal or vertical lines.  That's the beauty of shooting the 4k reds or anything at 2.5k and above, is that alassing disappears.

Granted it's not fair to compare a $900 70d to a $18,000 RED but since 2.5 k would not be much of a leap it doesn't make any sense that they don't use more of the sensor to cut down on alassing.

Given all of this, I find mirrorless to be in the early stages.  The olympus em-1 is probably one of the finest cameras I've ever used and has a wonderful feel in the hand, beautiful stabilization, awful track focusing and no controls over the video settings.

The gh3 is good with track focus in stills and video, but anything over 800 iso is a snow storm, plus the fact that the lenses really need to be f1.2 at maximum to get a cinematic focus throw.

I really don't think mirrorless is at the professional level yet though the possibilities are there.

If only you could combine the attributes of all the cameras you'd have something special.

The build quality, tactile feel and in body stabilization of the olympus, the track focus of the panasonic gh3/4, the high iso of the Sony a7s, the menu and ease of use of the 70d along with an apsc sensor.

That and good preamps, a touch screen lcd , . .  even a port to add a second larger lcd with all functions would be great for a second assistant to hold and perform touch screen focus while you worked.

Personally I think on a professional level, Canon is deeply in the game.  The 70d is lightweight and the video intercuts well with the RED footage, the stills are more than acceptable or professional work.

Canon lens lineup is huge and you can find and buy or rent Canon lenses anyplace in the world.

My only complaint with Canon is I would like them to employ the dual pixel setup on a camera with 2.5 to 4k in a super 35mm or apsc format, to kill the alassing.  

The 1dc for it's feature set is too high priced, the c series get's into RED territory to go to 4k, but given that Canon's lineup and user base is so large, that I don't think any smaller 4/3 is going to greatly effect them.

The interesting thing is our 4'3 camera case and Canon case weigh virtually the same, as both are identical think tanks.   Sure the Canons are larger but as I mentioned fully kitted out, not that much difference.

The only issue I have with Canons of all stripes is the manual focus lens rotation.  My brain is hardwired for Nikon and I can pick up a ZF lens and manually track focus immediately, with the Canons I always have to do a run through.

The one thing I've known since digital replaced film was if I could only carry one case, stills and motion, there is nothing in our portfolio I couldn't shoot with our Canons.  The 1dx autofocus in stills, especially tracking borders on amazing, the fact that a 5d2/3 or 1dx can shoot video in a pinch is just an added bonus.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 07:56:17 am by bcooter »
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anthony kar

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2014, 08:58:18 am »

size & weight for example... and no need to tune AF... and you do not need to buy that in UK either

The non-IS 70-200 is bigger but fairly light so I'll stick with it... I've only ever had AF-tuning issues with the 24-105 (a lens I've never fancied anyway)... I try to buy second hand as much as possible: the Canon used market-place has some superb bargains.
For my money/needs, it would be impossible to go full-on mirrorless right now as much as I would love to. On the plus side, by the time I hit 55-60, I'm sure there will be some superb (and light) mirorrless cameras out there to help me maintain my BIF habit  :)

On a slightly different but sort-of related topic: I would love to know how folk feel about the Canon SL1/100D? Is it the dawn of a new age (small and light DSLR / mirrorless slayer) or just a mutant dinosaur?
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2014, 09:00:52 am »

This thread has grown quickly since my earlier post so Kevin's and Michael's video has obviously got a reaction.  One point about which I have seen little concerns what people do with their images.  To me, for wildlife and sports photography, when fast movement is being captured, the DSLR is still the tops.  As was said in the video, DLSRs are good also for large prints. High pixel count with good IQ is also needed if significant cropping is required. 

BUT... how many still print images routinely?  Many people I know use an electronic display.  An iPad with a retina screen is often thought to be sufficient or uploads to the web are made.  I was part of a group of photographers who went on a trip to the islands on the west coast of Scotland this summer photographing landscapes, wildlife and macro.  We are all experienced photographers with DLSRs and multiple good lenses.  How are we going to show each other what we have shot?  We will get together with a laptop and projector.  The alternative to electronic viewing among many I know is to produce a book.  How necessary is it to have 24 or 36 mega pixels for a 12" book?

When using electronic viewing (except for viewing a still of a moving object like a dolphin or diving gannet) or looking in a photo book, I find it very difficult to tell the difference between images from a DLSR and a good APS CSC.  Size and bulk do matter to me, and I now use the latter more often than my 5D mk3.   

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Jonathan in UK

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2014, 09:14:21 am »

I have no doubt that over time there will be different camera models to choose from. When the mirror less model has achieved parity with the DSLR in terms of auto focus then it will move fast. When that is, is nevertheless much less certain despite progress made over the last few years.

I have to smile at the comparisons made in this video between so different lenses that it is ridiculous. Both of the gentlemen sitting in front of the camera know very well that this is not a like for like comparison at all. How does a Nikon D800E with a huge Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 compare to a Sony A7R with a 24-70 f/4 lens compare? The Nikon 24-70 f/2.8 is one of the largest of the kind and heavy (and this lens is actually not that great either). Look at the attached weight comparison of Sony, Canon and Nikon in very comparable models. The difference is rather small and not huge. If 300 grams breaks somebody's back, well they should choose something entirely different :)

Comparing f/2.8 or f/4 lenses on 35mm full frame with similar lenses made for micro 4/3 is also not a like for like comparison since the DOF is vastly different.

What would stop Canon or Nikon from making a mirror less camera body that fits the normal EF or F mount? With a camera body of the same weight as the Sony the system weight would become at parity.

Look at what Canon has done with the EOS 70D. What are they working on? Well, I don't think either Canon or Nikon engineers are dumb, so they are working on making an auto focus system that can compete in speed (and accuracy) with the mirror based phase detection auto focus found on DSLR's. So when they have achieved the technology it would be absolutely straight forward to make a camera body that is mirror less and fits the existing lenses. What a huge advantage over Sony!! Maybe in the meantime Sony has come up with a new idea and left the A7 behind?

Making an entirely new lens mount and a new body like Sony did, Canon and Nikon could do overnight after having done the first mirror less model that fits the existing lens line. They would then have to launch an entirely new lens line for that body which would take years to make, just like Sony takes years to make that and just like Sony leave customers in doubt of this new line. Btw. Canon has a mirror less body that fits the EF mount, it's just not that great yet and APS-C also.

Is micro 4/3 cameras a competition to full frame in IQ and resolution? Surely not.

I don't believe like the authors of this video that neither Canon nor Nikon are ostriche's with their heads buried in the sand.

The statistics on sales mentioned is not convincing either. To me what the sales curves says is basically that mirror less has been flat for two years and that DSLR sales has been going up and down. Twice the sales has been on the same level! Is there a trend? I can't see it. Do I believe there will be a change in the next 5-10 years? Of course, but to me it is much less clear what that would be. Who would have predicted that the low end of the market had collapsed and left all to smart phones 5-10 years ago? I didn't hear any predicting that.




You can't use one of those giant monster dslrs to do good street work. Sure it can be done, but why make things hard on yourself. I sometimes have to hand carry my cam all day and part of the night. I seldom use my dslr's anymore except for sports.
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Iluvmycam

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2014, 09:16:37 am »

Is that your way of challenging the sales statistics? It's not only professionals that purchase DSLR's and the majority were never purchased by professionals. I could walk down the streets of Copenhagen and not see a single DSLR and conclude that all pictures are taken with a smart phone :D

Camera fondlers keep the market afloat. As soon as they have a few more mp they off looking to buy the next magic bullet.
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Iluvmycam

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2014, 09:21:14 am »

I was considering for a while to add a smaller camera and thought about the Olympus OMD, the Fuji XT-1 or even similar smaller bodies until I realized that this was not going to change that much compared to taking e.g. a Canon 5D mkIII and the Canon 24-70 f/2.8L II over the shoulder when walking a city when I had my gear with me anyway. What I needed and wanted was a much smaller camera that I could put into my pocket without a photo bag at all. I decided on the Sony RX100 mkIII. And it is a real companion to my DSLR's (Canon 5D III and Nikon D810/D800E). Although the IQ is good it is nowhere near the DSLR quality, of course, but good enough for the casual shots that it is intended to do.

I do think the both Canon and Nikon engineers are having prototypes of high-end mirror less cameras in their labs and working on replacing the mirror box with air. The main advantage a slightly small form factor and weight and durability. But battery life would be challenged. For sports and wild life shooters there could be advantages too when the negatives have been engineered out of the way. To call Canon and Nikon dino's is a great misunderstanding of the realities.

A revolution? I have some difficulty to see this is a real revolution. It's more like en evolution since the cameras kind of look the same, have interchangeable lenses but lack a mirror box. The only contender for the highend DSLR's and only non action is the Sony A7R and we are still waiting for a decent lens lineup. And do we trust that Sony will stick to the full frame E-mount and further develop this? How was it that Sony reacted to the shutter shake issues that have been brought up by many reviewers and users and clearly demonstrated as an issue? Well they reacted like Canon and Nikon used to react: Silence.

When do we see a real revolution? The smart phone was a revolution in how people shoot pictures and share them. It wiped out the bottom end of the camera industry in stand alone cameras, just like many other stand alone gadgets have been wiped out since they are no longer needed. And wiped out entire companies as well. This was a revolution!



I wish Fuji, Canon or Nikon would make a Leica knockoff for $3000. Also a FF 6mp back for the SWC Hassy for $3000. And throw in a 24mp organic sensor of the Fuji X. Those are the only things lacking on my want list.
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aragdog

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2014, 12:55:50 pm »

Kevin I know you have mentioned the Olympus a lot and that excellent video you took in Zion is one of the most impressive.  My 800E is still here and if I am shooting some serious stuff that is with me.  But with a bad shoulder, bad knees and age, what I get from the smaller cameras is still great and I am not printing as large as some of what you guys do.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: The Mirrorless Revolution
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2014, 01:39:59 pm »

Nice video, and very illustrative. I think it is very positive that we have so many choices today. I also think that I am lucky not to be shooting sports, wildlife, or anything that still requires a DSLR. This means I can now fully enjoy the benefits (aka small size and weight) of a CSC system. I am now fully embedded into the Olympus micro 43 system for my landscapes, travel, and documentary photography. I only require 3 lenses, and I have the Oly 12 f2, Panaleica 25 f1.4, and Oly 75 f1.8. I can carry all this in a small shoulder bag, no problems. I am amazed at what the potential of these little cameras and lenses can deliver.

I too am waiting for the development of the Sony A7 series, how will it mature? In the video, there is talk about how the Sony FE lenses are comparable to the Nikon f2.8 lens showed, but indeed the former are f4 lenses; were Sony ever to produce f2.8 zooms for the FE mount, they would be about the same size as the Nikon or Canon counterparts. In fact, I was in my local dealer today, and saw the Zeiss FE 24-70 f4 and Sony 70-200 f4 lenses; they are not smaller than their Canon or Nikon equivalents, and to be honest, they look too big on the little Sony A7 cameras.

But since I use primes, I can see myself using a Sony A7 in a few years, when there is a trio of the good old fashioned 24-50-85/100mm lenses.
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