Scottish Independende Debate

[deejjjaaaa]

I think we can do without such hypocrisy from "deejjjaaaa" - if you don't know, his avatar is the flag of those who murdered the passengers on the Malaysian airliner, and plenty others....

I am not sure what hypocrisy you are talking about ? United Fruit marines ? fake WMD in Iraq ? attempting to prevent a sovereign country like Cuba to decide what weapons they want to allow on their soil ? Gulf of Tonkin ? supporting a coup to remove a legitimate president in Kiev ? ... get a mirror first may be  

from today's CNN ( http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/politics/isis-obama-speech/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 )

"The White House has insisted he has all the authority he needs to use military force to strike at ISIS to protect Americans, aid the Iraqis, and provide humanitarian support."

let me translate - Kremlin has the authority he needs to use military force to strike at UA to protect Russians, aid the Russians in Donetsk/Luhansk, and provide humanitarian support to them (w/o asking anybody btw)... got it ?

just like US/Nato decided that Kosovo is right and Serbia is wrong, when some people in Kosovo decided that they are not interested to live in Serbia and started the armed insurgency.

[john beardsworth]

Sorry, I don't feed the troll.

[deejjjaaaa]

Sorry, I don't feed the troll.

likewise

[Dave (Isle of Skye)]

So, what is the source of that wealth creation? Are you oil rich, as Norway? In the long list of welfare entitlements in the table you provided, I have not seen a single item to promote or stimulate wealth creation.

Slobodan, it is based mainly on the wealth generated by North Sea Oil, which is about as central as you can get to the whole independence arguments and the future viability of an independent Scotland should it choose to breakaway from the rest of the UK.

- but finally, we have someone here in this video link below, who really can be trusted to give us the actual facts on the most central issues of the independence debate and who is also not in any way politically biased in what he is saying, nor is he a politician, he just states the truth from a point of really knowing and understanding the facts, pure and simple.

I am a bit of a complete cynic when comes to anything political as you might have now gathered, but I think this guy is speaking the nearest thing to the truth, we will ever hear in this debate.

Please watch the full 25 minutes of this video to get the full facts.

For people here and commenting on this thread and who are voting Yes, can you tell me if you believe anything he says in this video and does it change anything for how you now view the whole issue and long term viability of Scottish independence, and if not why not?

Dave

[AreBee]

Isaac,
 

you seem to have given up any attempt to address the issues that have been raised.

Do I no longer get to choose which posts, in part or full, that I respond to?

As for the post in question,  I apologise for responding cynically, but if you are going to post such poor quality content then you can hardly protest when you receive an equally poor response.

To expand upon what I wrote, clearly the UK is in the mess it is in due to citizens living beyond their means. In addition, it should be self-evident that for the rUK to accede to a currency union it would impose suitable and sufficient controls that would eliminate risk of Scotland "borrow[ing] on a scale that degraded sterling".

[stamper]

Dave Reply #230 you picked the wrong guy when you suddenly believed there is an honest person to listen to

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/9623-sir-ian-woods-oil-intervention-was-political

Woods has flipped from a position he held two years ago. Then he was very confident about the future of oil. Why has he changed? He now has interests in fracking and those interests won't be realised in a free Scotland so he is now backing the no campaign for purely selfish reasons. He is a  fracking hypocrite.

[stamper]

Here is one to balance Dave's negativity.

http://www.energyvoice.com/2014/09/expert-alex-kemp-predicts-north-sea-oil-bonanza/

[AreBee]

Isaac,

The oft-stated sufficient control is not to accede to currency union.

Yes, if a currency union is not in the best interest of the rUK. However, if a currency union is in the best interest of the rUK then clearly the rUK would seek to eliminate residual risk where possible, or otherwise control it.



Dave,

…it is based mainly on the wealth generated by North Sea Oil…

Mainly? As in, greater than 50%? From 2000 until 2012, oil and gas revenue accounted for 15% of Scotland’s tax income, compared to 30% for Norway, an oil producing country comparable to Scotland in terms of population.

[PhotoEcosse]

The more the No campaign desperately peddle their scare stories, the more people discover that we can’t believe a word they say.

Today’s claims on banking are just the latest to backfire:

    Royal Bank of Scotland directly confirmed in a letter to staff that changing the address of their registered HQ to London would be a “technical procedure” and no operations or jobs would be moved
    And media stories about Lloyds ‘moving their headquarters’ to London are being ridiculed, since Lloyds has been headquartered in London for 100 years. Changing registered address would involve changing brass plaque - nothing more.

Banks will operate where they can get the best and most experienced staff - and that’s the staff they already employ here in Scotland.  That’s why Sir Martin Gilbert of Aberdeen Asset Management said today that an independent Scotland “will be a big success”.

[mezzoduomo]

Anyone ask Mel Gibson for his views on Scottish independence?   

[stamper]

10 billion pounds? A lot less than the Tory cuts in the event of a NO vote.

[Jeremy Roussak]

I think we can do without such hypocrisy from "deejjjaaaa" - if you don't know, his avatar is the flag of those who murdered the passengers on the Malaysian airliner, and plenty others....

And he himself condones the murder of teenagers. I expect he's a nice chap, underneath.

Jeremy

[Jeremy Roussak]

Anyone ask Mel Gibson for his views on Scottish independence?   

No, I'm too busy talking to Sean Connery (in the Bahamas).

Jeremy

[Jeremy Roussak]

Banks will operate where they can get the best and most experienced staff - and that’s the staff they already employ here in Scotland.  That’s why Sir Martin Gilbert of Aberdeen Asset Management said today that an independent Scotland “will be a big success”.

It's not going to happen, though. Most of those people who, intimated by the aggression of the Yes campaign, are pretending to pollsters that they don't know how they'll vote will, in the privacy of the booth, place a cross next to "no".

Jeremy

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... the flag of those who murdered the passengers on the Malaysian airliner, and plenty others....

As it has been pointed out before, numerous countries, including Ukraine and United States, have shot down passenger planes by mistake in the past. I have not seen a single credible claim by any side that this one was intentional.

[john beardsworth]

Oh, lots of other people have done it, so it's all right then.... No, any reasonable person would see it was a war crime, but in any case my point was the hypocrisy of someone hiding his identity like the thugs who use that flag and making a juvenile criticism of the Iraq/Libya operations (for all the faults of those wars, remember Hallabja, Lockerbie).

[john beardsworth]

I expect he's a nice chap, underneath.

He probably thinks he's being very, very clever and that no-one would notice, but using that flag as his avatar is stupid and provocative.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Oh, lots of other people have done it, so it's all right then.... No, any reasonable person would see it was a war crime, but in any case my point was the hypocrisy of someone hiding his identity like the thugs who use that flag ...

If it were automatically a war crime, than a bunch of other perpetrators, including Ukraine itself and the US, should have been brought to justice. Ain't gonna happen, though, for a simple reason it is not a war crime. Horrible mistake and tragedy, yes. As for the "thugs," either both parties to the conflict, the street mob that toppled a legitimate government and the rebels that reacted to that, are thugs or neither. Or you can see both as freedom fighters, depending on your point of view.

[deejjjaaaa]

Oh, lots of other people have done it, so it's all right then...

no, it is not - what is alright is to look @ your own history first, before teaching others in a childish manner.

No, any reasonable person would see it was a war crime, but in any case my point was the hypocrisy of someone hiding his identity like the thugs who use that flag

I 'd suggest first to use that defintion to describe the intentional killing of Iranians by thugs on USS Vincennes ( "I will never apologize for the United States — I don't care what the facts are..." (c) one potus ) or Libiyans by thugs flying IAF F-4s   and yes, then you can use that for KAL flight too  

and making a juvenile criticism of the Iraq/Libya operations

those were not "operations" - those were thuggish assaults by US, UK & other US lackeys under the intentionally fake pretenses that resulted in way more deaths than Saddam or Gaddafi caused :-)

(for all the faults of those wars, remember Hallabja, Lockerbie).

we can for sure start earlier than that - we can remember who encouraged & supported dear friend Saddam when he was needed against Iran or who for example was using chemical weapons first including agent orange against civilians (no, not Saddam - that honor belongs to a way whiter colored thugs)

[deejjjaaaa]

And he himself condones the murder of teenagers.
Jeremy

certainly I do condone when IRA attacks (& kills) British soldiers on Irish soil, whose age was sufficient to serve in the army, regardless that those soldiers were born in Scotland... they could refuse to serve occupants, they didn't