Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Capture One Without Catalogs  (Read 12279 times)

Ian99

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 145
Capture One Without Catalogs
« on: July 30, 2014, 08:42:18 pm »

Does anyone have any suggestions for running Capture One Express v7 WITHOUT their cataloging system??

As background, I shoot with a D800 and for years have been handling the Raw conversion with CNX2 and/or Photoshop. I own a real version of CS6 with the Nik Viveza plugins so I am not concerned with the loss of control points in NX-D.

So I could continue quite happily for a number of years until I upgrade my camera.

Nevertheless, the NX-D event prompted me to look at alternate converters.

I took two ordinary landscape NEFs and processed them through: CNX2, NX-D, ACR, LR5, Photo Ninja 1.2.2a, and Capture One Express v7.2.3. I use Win7-64 so Aperture and Raw Therapee were excluded. DXO was also excluded for cost reasons I refuse to pay more just because I have an expensive camera.

The best conversion by far was Capture One. Photo Ninja would come next if I could stop it producing semi-HDR colors. The rest were pretty much all the same.

I loathe the UI of LR5  -- I have tried it on three different releases and none are for me. I want to control my file structure and in my corporate life have managed 5 commercial ERP implementations so I think I know what makes sense and what does not. So LR is OUT.

So back to the original question. I hate the catalog concept of Capture One but I love its output. How do I get the latter without the former??
Logged

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3964
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 08:49:44 pm »

I don't use Express, but C1 Pro offers you a session mode, which is what I use.  I am not a fan of catalogs either and would love to see LR offer a similar alternative.

Paul
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

colinm

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 09:15:48 pm »

So back to the original question. I hate the catalog concept of Capture One but I love its output. How do I get the latter without the former??

You upgrade to Pro.

They want Express to compete with Lightroom, and mandatory catalog usage is part of that model.
Logged
Colin

geezerhood

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 10:02:08 pm »

I, like you chose Capture One for its superior RAW processing. Nothing else I tried produced a processed image that was as pleasing to my eye with the least amount of effort.  I prefer working in Sessions with Capture One Pro vs the Catalog, but I also like the ability to search all of my images in one place as in the Catalog.  What I ended up doing, that so far is working well for me is outlined below which is copied from another Capture One forum post of mine.

Link to original post



1 - Create a "Master" Catalog that will eventually contain all my images but import nothing at first.

2 - Create a new SESSION from the memory card with each new shoot (or import an existing folder of unprocessed images into the session) and do a quick renaming, key word addition, rating and culling.

3 - Import that SESSION into the Master Catalog along with all changes / ratings etc. just to make it searchable.

4 - Continue to further process all images only in their original SESSIONS. Not from within the Catalog. Everything in the Catalog is never changed in any way; it is just there so I can search for stuff easily.

5 - After working on a SESSION a bit more, update it in the CATALOG by re-importing the SESSION, leaving the files in their original location.

You must Re-import the session by clicking directly on the applicable Session .cosessiondb file from the File / Import Session menu, rather than right clicking on the session folders in the Library and choosing Import. In testing my methods to see if this was going to work for me, I did learn that the Library right click import does not work because it skips all the images since they are already there in the Catalog. I am assuming that even if C1Pro did give you the option to overwrite them, it still would not bring in the adjustments, since it is probably only looking for image files in those folders, not the Sessions .cosessiondb file too. But when doing the upper menu File / Import Session method of re-importing, C1Pro presents a dialog box as shown below

Catalog already contains this image. Keep or replace existing adjustments?
[ ] Apply to all conflicts of this type
[Keep] [Replace] [Stop]


The only thing I am seeing that I dont like, is that doing this creates a new User Collection every time. Not a big deal since I dont use the User Collections in this method, but I do plan to delete the older User Collections for that Session every time I do a re-import, to prevent a massive amount of unwanted User Collections from building up in there.



This Session import method appears to not work on a Mac, though it has been reported to Phase One as not working so it may be fixed down the road.

Regards,

Don
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 10:04:18 pm by geezerhood »
Logged

Keith Reeder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
    • Capture The Moment
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 02:32:22 am »

Does anyone have any suggestions for running Capture One Express v7 WITHOUT their cataloging system??

Short answer - can't be done.
Logged
Keith Reeder
Blyth, NE England

Keith Reeder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
    • Capture The Moment
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2014, 02:33:05 am »

2 - Create a new SESSION

Not possible in Express.
Logged
Keith Reeder
Blyth, NE England

Jan K.

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2014, 11:15:51 am »

1 - Create "Master" Catalog but import nothing

2 - Create new SESSION

3 - Import SESSION to Master Catalog

4 - Continue to process images only in their original SESSIONS. Not from Catalog.

5 - After working on SESSION, update it in CATALOG, re-import SESSION

You must Re-import the session by clicking directly on the applicable Session .cosessiondb file from the File / Import Session menu, rather than right clicking on the session folders in the Library...

Thanks for your efforts, but this is the exact reason, why I must stay away from C1....

First post in this thread could have been written by me! ;D

Like OP, I have a totally fine folder structure for handling all kinds of projects, photos and documents.
Developed over years and is completely independent of any kind of management software.

If C1 would respect that and had an option for working in simple "browser mode", ie no import/export or db, it for sure would be my goto converter/editor.
As it is now, have to pass...  :(
Logged

geezerhood

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2014, 01:29:12 pm »

If C1 would respect that and had an option for working in simple "browser mode", ie no import/export or db, it for sure would be my goto converter/editor.
As it is now, have to pass...  :(

I agree, it would be nice if Capture One Pro offered a quick edit "sidecar" type storage of the processing information for a single image without having to go through the Session / Catalog steps as an option for the times when you don't want to import images into the database. But, it isn't even remotely a deal breaker for me not having that option.  The data has to be stored somewhere so really there is no way around creating some kind of a "database", be it a Session, Catalog or a Sidecar.

Having access to the best raw processor available to get the most out of my files is worth dealing with importing into a database storage method.  
Logged

Keith Reeder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
    • Capture The Moment
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2014, 03:56:31 pm »

If C1 would respect that and had an option for working in simple "browser mode", ie no import/export or db, it for sure would be my goto converter/editor.

Capture One does - but it has to be Capture One Pro.

I routinely do it - use the same "default" session (which is essentially an invisible, choose-once-use-forever (if you want) part of the workflow) and simply browse to the folder which the images are in from within the Library tab.

Express from version 7 on forces you to use the catalogue - no session option available - although previous versions of Express did support sessions.

I'm not the only one who was bent out of shape about being compelled to upgrade to Pro simply to continue using sessions this way...

Logged
Keith Reeder
Blyth, NE England

geezerhood

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 91
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2014, 06:56:27 pm »

Capture One does - but it has to be Capture One Pro.

I routinely do it - use the same "default" session (which is essentially an invisible, choose-once-use-forever (if you want) part of the workflow) and simply browse to the folder which the images are in from within the Library tab.


Keith,

Could you please elaborate a bit on this "default" session you speak of?   Is that a session that you created yourself just for this type of browse / edit workflow or a feature I am not seeing in Capture One Pro?

Thanks,

Don
Logged

Ian99

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 145
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2014, 07:38:06 pm »

As the OP, I was initially disappointed that there seemed to be no simple solution that I had missed when trying out C1.

Now I am feeling a lot better now I know that others want the simple browser interface and not a catalog. Fuel is added to the fire when I see all the complaints about the C1 catalog system on this forum.

A sensible company would listen to its potential customers and tailor their products to suit the market. I think Phase One is missing something here.

For me, the situation gets even sillier when after doing my culling of files and letting C1 do its brilliant conversion job, I then finish off the work in Photoshop, which of course still uses the browser/sidecar approach and is accepted as the Gold Standard in the industry.

I thank everyone for commenting even Keith in his ultra laconic responses. Perhaps Don (Geezerhood)s question will elicit more useful info.

Keep the comments coming!
Logged

Keith Reeder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
    • Capture The Moment
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2014, 07:07:58 am »

I think Phase One is missing something here.
Don't bet on it - Phase One made an explicit decision to remove from the Express version the ability to use the software without a catalogue.

Quote
even Keith in his ultra laconic responses
I just thought it was important quickly to address some of the misunderstandings that had already been indicated in the thread about what was and was not possible right now.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 07:19:40 am by Keith Reeder »
Logged
Keith Reeder
Blyth, NE England

Keith Reeder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
    • Capture The Moment
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2014, 07:18:33 am »

Could you please elaborate a bit on this "default" session you speak of?
These should help:

http://blog.phaseone.com/take-control-of-your-image-organization-with-sessions-or-catalogs/

and

http://blog.phaseone.com/get-better-organized-when-using-sessions-in-capture-one-pro-7/

The point is that although there's a recommendation to create a new session for each job (and there are some good arguments for doing so), you don't have to: as the first page suggests, it's entirely possible simply to use the same session on an ongoing basis, which - to all intents and purposes - delivers the kind of functionality that this thread indicates a desire for.  As a note on the page suggests:

Quote
2) You use the Default Session and just browse to where ever you have placed your raw files

That's what I do.

As an aside: I don't have any problems at all with the Capture One catalogue implementation - it has already worked perfectly for me - but I simply prefer a non catalogue=based approach.

In case this isn't on everyone's radar, Phase One is currently doing a deal on the software, with Pro being sold for half price. So if sessions/avoiding being forced to use a catalogue is important, now's a really good time to make the move.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 07:30:32 am by Keith Reeder »
Logged
Keith Reeder
Blyth, NE England

Craig Lamson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1688
    • Craig Lamson Photo Homepage
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2014, 08:42:38 am »

Capture One does - but it has to be Capture One Pro.

I routinely do it - use the same "default" session (which is essentially an invisible, choose-once-use-forever (if you want) part of the workflow) and simply browse to the folder which the images are in from within the Library tab.

Express from version 7 on forces you to use the catalogue - no session option available - although previous versions of Express did support sessions.

I'm not the only one who was bent out of shape about being compelled to upgrade to Pro simply to continue using sessions this way...



I've been a loyal C1 user for years and I too use my personal filing system and a default session.  Works perfectly...except for express.  I always kept express on a few systems that had no need for tethered shooting and a few other features, for which i used pro. Not any more.  I made the mistake to upgrade an express 6 license to 7 and if has forced http://savetubevideo.comcatalogs.  Wasted money since I'll never use it.

Shame really.  If I wanted to use a catalog system I would use the copy of Lightroom I own and don't use either.

That said I love c1 pro.  Always have.  Nothing else comes close and now with capture pilot, is a godsend for my work.
Logged
Craig Lamson Photo 

Keith Reeder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
    • Capture The Moment
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2014, 09:59:25 am »

It is a baffling decision on Phase One's part to pull sessions from the Express version.

But then again, we had to drag Express 7 kicking and screaming out of Phase One, and I'm in no doubt whatsoever that the arbitrary (and petty, to my mind) decision to - in effect - cripple an existing and extremely workable workflow that some of us had been using for years in pre-7 Express, was intended as "punishment" for the ructions we caused.
Logged
Keith Reeder
Blyth, NE England

allegretto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 660
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2014, 01:44:29 pm »

Media Pro would solve most, if not all of the problems you spam of

Further would allow non-image data to be catalogued and associated with the images. Videos, music, PP presentations... whatever file s you like

I know, it's buying more software, ~ $200. So you spend megabucks on gear, then complain about a couple hundred that makes your system run far more smoothly.
Logged

Keith Reeder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
    • Capture The Moment
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2014, 02:42:14 pm »

Media Pro would solve most, if not all of the problems you spam of
How will choosing a different DAM solution allow Express users to avoid the need to use its catalogue at the file import stage, when the only option available in Express is the catalogue?
Logged
Keith Reeder
Blyth, NE England

stormyboy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 87
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2014, 12:15:06 am »

Sorry if I should have started a new thread, but my question seems to fit in here:

I'm a new user/purchaser of Capture One Pro 7.  Currently I only plan on using it only occasionally and in the sessions mode.  Keith's default session idea sounds perfect for me.  Lightroom is my primary program.

After the trial period I have tons of sessions that I would like to delete both in Capture One and any folders it created on my hard drive--seeking pristine initial installation mode so to speak.  I'd appreciate any advice.  "Delete sessions" doesn't seem to turn up helpful advice anywhere I search.

Tom
Logged

Keith Reeder

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 253
    • Capture The Moment
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2014, 10:19:58 am »

There's no quick and easy way to do that within Capture One, Tom.

What I do is to pay attention to where Capture One puts the session folders (we've got control over that) and every now and then I spend ten minutes using my computer's file system to track them down and zap them.
Logged
Keith Reeder
Blyth, NE England

stormyboy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 87
Re: Capture One Without Catalogs
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2014, 12:49:57 pm »

Keith,

Thank you for the reply.  I have now done the search and delete and will be more aware where I place the session folder.

Tom
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up