Gaza's on-going Palestinian civilians Killing

[Chairman Bill]

Like our government even know what mea culpa means.

To be fair, it wasn't the British who thought it a good idea to hand over another people's country to a third party, that was the United Nations. In addition, the terrorist group known as the Stern Gang, murdered British troops, murdered a British government minister and even asked for assistance from the Nazis (there's irony for you), and then Stalin, whilst the Irgun engaged in a number of tit-for-tat killings against Arabs, a number of bombings against Arab targets (markets were a favourite), & bombed the King David Hotel, killing 91 people. On top of that, they also targeted British service personnel. So I don't think you can blame the British for Israel's actions right now. It does however make their complaints of Palestinian terrorism just a bit hypocritical.

[RSL]

Well, Russ, you called it a "war crime." I just used a hyperbole to point it out.

It's literally a crime to violate a truce, and since it happened during a war it's a war crime.

[mezzoduomo]

• Immediate unilateral truce by Israel for 48 hours NO MATTER WHAT HAMAS DOES
• American, British and Egyptian joint humanitarian relief operations in Gaza to commence after 48 hours of quiet is maintained in Gaza and the rockets into Israel cease
• Israel commits big bucks to reconstruction and reparations, which will commence after 30 days of quiet

[PeterAit]

So, the US is asking Israel to respond "proportionally." Hmm, what does this mean? Instead of killing 1000+ Palestinian noncombatants, kill only 500? How about 250, and only 50 kids? Oh wait, there have been 3 Israelis killed by Hamas rockets, so maybe "proportional" means ... well, I think you see where I am going.

And then the US is, according to today's paper, replenishing Israel's supply of ammunition. So, "respond proportionally" but in case you are not in the mood to do that, here are some more bombs and bullets to kill civilians and kids with.

What a mess. Depressing.

[BernardLanguillier]

It's literally a crime to violate a truce, and since it happened during a war it's a war crime.

You still haven't provided any answer to the main point of this thread, which the factual dead of hundreds of Palestinian children Russ. Does their death not matter to you? Is it hysterical to point out those deaths?

Now that your point about the violation of the ceasefire is made, how about positioning yourself clearly on the point we have been discussing?

Failure to do so may result in you coming across as a person who will support Israel whatever atrocity they do. Is that the case?

By the way, in case you didn't know, Israel has a pretty significant backlog of international laws violations.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

Cheers,
Bernard

[Manoli]

It's literally a crime to violate a truce, and since it happened during a war it's a war crime.

So on that basis - it's also a crime to commit theft, therefore the thieves and pickpockets who operated and committed crimes in the USA during WWII are all guilty of war crimes ?

[Manoli]

Best, if possible, for posters on the thread to avoid becoming hysterical about all this.

Rather patronising - I suggest that you take a cue from Chairman Bill’s posts. Some of your overly simplistic, bigoted suggestions are a poor substitute for well reasoned and erudite argument, particularly on a matter with such profound and far-reaching consequences. If you don’t want to enrage the natives, best not to fan the flames. 

Notwithstanding your posts, the wilful and deliberate murder of civilians, women & children does not constitute 'jus in bello', no matter what spin you and the Israelis try to put on it.

[DennisWilliams]

There is no genocide. They are Arabs. There has never been a country or race of Palestine any more than a country or race of  Judea.

When Hamas  took over to rule , Hamas could have built hotels and hospitals and schools and infrastructure, brought in billions of dollars  and Gaza could have been a paradise  on the ocean that all the  world came to.  Hamas chose to invest in bombs and tunnels. The parents in Gaza know who they elected to lead them,  and still they have children. They fire rockets into Israel and still they have children.  They send spies in to blow up and still they have children. The people of Gaza overwhelmingly  still support Hamas and their mission of terror and incursions into Israel and still they have children.

I have no sympathy  for, and in fact serious derision towards folks who whimper on and on about the deaths of  children in Gaza. It's the only positive press Hamas is generating and they know it.  Who has children in a war zone that they themselves prolong year after year?  I would not have a dog, let alone children under the circumstances in Gaza.  Children are a choice. Just as storing  bombs in homes and tunnel entrances in schools are choices. Using children to generate sympathy is disgusting. Putting the children in the position in the first place is an abomination.

The citizens of Gaza, those innocent non combatants,  could throw out Hamas.  Ban weapons.  Hang the terrorists. Forget about Israel and create a life for themselves. Show that they actually want a better life for their children. They could be Huntington Beach.  It'll never happen.

[mezzoduomo]

....the wilful and deliberate murder of civilians, women & children does not constitute 'jus in bello', no matter what spin you and the Israelis try to put on it.

Is there any evidence of Israelis seeking out children and killing them in cold blood, or targeting them overtly, or does all the evidence point to the 'human shields' doctrine perpetrated by the Hamas maniacs?

[ripgriffith]

I have no sympathy  for, and in fact serious derision towards folks who whimper on and on about the deaths of  children in Gaza. .

Do you report your salary from AIPAC to the IRS?

[BernardLanguillier]

Is there any evidence of Israelis seeking out children and killing them in cold blood, or targeting them overtly, or does all the evidence point to the 'human shields' doctrine perpetrated by the Hamas maniacs?

There is at least one very well documented case where 4 children playing on a beach in front of a crowd of international reporters were killed on purpose, shot at twice from an Israeli boat.

There is no way they can have been mistaken for terrorists and there were no targets nearby.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/middle-east-unrest/innocent-gone-israeli-strike-gaza-kills-four-children-n157301

How many others are undocumented we will never know.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Is there any evidence of Israelis seeking out children and killing them in cold blood, or targeting them overtly, or does all the evidence point to the 'human shields' doctrine perpetrated by the Hamas maniacs?

Plenty of evidence: http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/may/20/cctv-footage-palestinian-teenagers-shot-dead-video

Of course schoolboys are also being murdered by Palestinians, so both sides are to blame. The value of life also has quite a different meaning in other cultures than most of ours, and when in a situation of life threatening hostilities.

Cheers,
Bart

[stamper]

Of course schoolboys are also being murdered by Palestinians,

A link please. Only three civilians from Israeli occupied Palestine have been reported dead and were they schoolboys?

[Manoli]

Is there any evidence of Israelis seeking out children and killing them in cold blood, or targeting them overtly ...

I suggest you read posts #35 and #142

" ... when it’s certain that civilians will die as a result of one’s actions, the distinction between intended and unintended becomes meaningless and is “nullified” ... "

The latest incident is but another.

" After the tunnel clash, Israel struck with heavy artillery fire and an aerial bombardment of Rafah. 65 Palestinians were killed, many of them children, and more than 350 were wounded.  The bombardment of Rafah appeared to reflect what the IDF called the 'Hannibal directive', in which it responds to any capture of a soldier ... with heavy fire aimed at stopping the captors leaving the scene ".

[Chairman Bill]

So Hamas broke the ceasefire by capturing an Israeli soldier, which thus justified Israel in bombing & shelling Gaza again, killing more civilians. Only now the Israelis are saying that Lt. Hadar Goldin was actually killed in combat before the ceasefire. Which of course means that Hamas didn't breach the ceasefire, Israel did, and so Israel is guilty of a warcrime. Presumably. Unless these things only apply to one party. I think we should be told.

[Chairman Bill]

Also, why is it that Hamas 'seize' or 'kidnap' Israeli troops, when usually enemy soldiers taken into custody are referred to as 'captured' and are thus POWs? Are Hamas fighters ever 'kidnapped' by the IDF? The language in news reports & that used by politicians, seems to cloud the issue. The first casualty of war it truth.

[stamper]

Israeli jails are full of Palestinians. Were they kidnapped? The biggest worry at the moment is the deliberate demolishing of the power supply in Gaza. The power station would be known to the Israelis so it was a deliberate attempt to punish all of the Palestinians long term. A buffer zone is being set up near the border by the Israelis and they are "inviting" Palestinians to go there. The cynic in me thinks it will be easier for the Israelis to target them.

[stamper]

An image taken in Glasgow, Scotland by myself early July just after the troubles began. Scotland has been very vocal in their support of Palestine. One Jewish person told the crowd that not every Jew supported Zionism and a lot of his fellow Jews supported Palestine and a two state solution.

[RSL]

Rather patronising - I suggest that you take a cue from Chairman Bill’s posts. Some of your overly simplistic, bigoted suggestions are a poor substitute for well reasoned and erudite argument, particularly on a matter with such profound and far-reaching consequences. If you don’t want to enrage the natives, best not to fan the flames. 

Notwithstanding your posts, the wilful and deliberate murder of civilians, women & children does not constitute 'jus in bello', no matter what spin you and the Israelis try to put on it.

Thanks for illustrating my point. I was pretty sure one or another hysterical poster would do that.

[stamper]

One more from a demonstration.