recommendations for ultra-compact digital camera?

[Lisa Nikodym]

After a number of occasions when I unexpectedly wished I had my DSLR with me but didn't, I decided it's time to get an ultra-compact camera that will fit in a pocket or small purse and can be carried all the time.  I know virtually nothing about this class of camera, and am looking for recommendations, either for specific cameras or for what to look for in general.  I've checked DPReview, and there are a bunch of ultra-compacts at 6 Mpix and up (which is what I would want unless someone can make a good argument for a camera with less), but I'm not sure what specs are most important, what the specs don't tell you, and what would drive me nuts after being accustomed to SLRs.  Would these cameras give an acceptable (not gallery-quality, but acceptable for home use) 11"x14" enlargement with reasonably careful technique (but no tripod)?

Thanks,
Lisa

[DonWeston]

A couple of months ago, I bought my kids[teens]a Fuji F10, Fuji's 6 Mp, relatively small, fit in shirt pocket or coat, but not the ultimate smallest size, nice quality for their needs, with care 8x10 or 11x14 doable..
For me I gave up on this idea, after being dissatisfied with different models including a Canon Pro 1, making even bigger blowups, found that at even ISO 200, noise was too much for my taste, and ended up getting a Rebel XT. When I want to carry the least, I carry that with a prime lens. It is not much heavier than the pro 1, but not pocketable per se. It may not have the ultimate in lens flexibility, thus set up, but what images I do get are easily capable of enlarging any reasonable amount and being noise free up to ISO400. It is bigger than a pocket size camera for sure, but the images are better quality due to a sensor of reasonable size. If all goes FF for slrs, in the future, maybe the P&S will end up with aps-c sized sensors, then I will revisit this type of camera.YMMV.

[Robert Roaldi]

My two cents. I own a G3 which is not really pocketable but which shares the 1/1.8 sensor with the Canon A80/A85/A95 family. You'll have to go look at the specs of those models because some have 4 mpix, some 5 mpix, some allow manual override, some use AA batteries, some use re-charge, so it will take a while to sort out which is which. Further, they have been recently replaced by A510/A610/A520/A620 models with even greater mpix, but which use SD cards exclusively(I think).

I have no trouble getting acceptable 8x10's out of the G3, after NeatImaging the files, and some without. Larger sizes don't always work as well depending on exposure, ISO, etc, but are usable if not sellable, though it's impossible to be dogmatic. The subsequent generations are improved so that I am certain that one of those models can fit your requirements image-wise. Deciding which you would want depends on whether you care about battery-type, storage compatibility with your current cameras, whether you care about having manual control in a pocket cam, etc. Their size is small, but not so small that they are finnicky to handle though this is subjective and depends to a large extent on the size of your hands. Anyway, they are a good place to start.

[Ben Rubinstein]

How about the new Canon S80? you can share your CF cards which saves you money, it's got 28mm at the wide end.

Other than that, many people are raving about the F10, especially for high ISO shooting.

I did briefly look into it, there are a couple of serious street shooting projects I want to do, but none have all the features I want.

[DonWeston]

BTW, the F10 takes xD cards, very small, had a S3 that also used them in a second mem slot. I ended up buying a xD to CF adapter and now can use them in my Canon dslrs. FWIW, the F10 does take some nice images for what it is. Gets pretty impressive reviews too, like I said earlier, my kids love it.

[jdemott]

Let me know if you find something that works.  I bought a Canon G5 early last year because I wanted a camera I could take along all the time.  I picked the G5 because it was highly rated, takes RAW or jpeg files, uses CF cards that I can share with my other cameras, has a hot shoe for external flash, and allows full manual control.  Unfortuanately, I seldom want to use it because (1) the shutter response is infuriatingly slow, (2) the viewfinder is worthless, (3) the possibility of manual control is more illusory than real (no real depth of field control with short focal length lens; not possible to manually focus with worthless viewfinder), (4) the menu system seems confusing (this may be because it is different than my DSLRs), and (5) ISO speeds above 100 are noisy and there is noise in the shadows at all speeds.  That said, the G5 will take nice photos with good color in daylight or with flash, and they look fine printed at 8 by 10 or perhaps a little larger.  If you decide to buy a compact digicam, don't overlook the importance of ergonomics--shutter lag and cramped viewfinders seem to be par for the course with digicams and those factors can really detract from the usability of the camera.  Poor performance at higher ISOs also seems very common.  Good luck with your search.

[Gary_Berg]

How about the new Canon S80? you can share your CF cards which saves you money, it's got 28mm at the wide end.

Unfortunately, the S80 switched to SD cards. I believe it also tossed RAW mode.

The previous model, an S70, was very similar and CF based with RAW capability and might be a good choice. This is above an ultra-compact in size, but is still a very small camera. And it will produce better images than almost any ultra-compact.

[Lisa Nikodym]

Thanks for your suggestions so far.  I've taken a quick look at the Fujifilm F10, and the Canons S70, S80 & G6 (more recent version of the G5, I presume?) on DPReview, and it looks like there are some hard trade-offs to make.

The small size and weight of the F10 is greatly desireable, but the lack of viewfinder and of aperture & shutter priority features worries me; can I transition to being without these???  What are your experiences with this?

The S70 goes down to 28 mm and takes RAW, both of which are excellent features for me.  However, it's getting bigger and heavier, and I need to consider whether it's small enough to carry with me.  Perhaps a visit to my local camera store to get one "in hand" is in order...

The G6 looks like a quite fine camera, and does RAW, but the size and weight are getting beyond what I can reasonably stuff in my purse.

Any more I should be considering?

Lisa

[Gary_Berg]

Any more I should be considering?

Lisa,

I'd go to the DC Resource web site and check out reviews for the cameras you've looked at so far. At the end of each review they have several other "similar" cameras to look at; I'd use those as a starting point.

There is a recent review of the Canon SD 550 on that site which is quite positive, by the way. If you buy a 512Mb or 1Gb SD card for the camera, you might not need to worry about sharing CFs with your main camera...

[Bobtrips]

Fuji just announced the F11, an update to the F10 that includes shutter and aperture priority modes.

[DiaAzul]

Any more I should be considering?

I just bought my parents a Casio Exilim EX57. As a purse toting camera it is definitely worth considering. Positives are long battery life, simple and fast operation and large display on the back. Negatives are that it is difficult to see the LCD in bright light (though that affects all cameras of this type) and the wide end of the lens is not particularly wide.

There are a number of other cameras in the range at different price points, but I haven't come across anything else which is so convenient, easy to use (in that it is responsive, quick to focus, no shutter lag, etc.) and has a battery that doesn't go flat the moment you want to use it.

If you select fine JPEG and -2 sharpening then picture quality is reasonable, at standard ISO noise is well suppressed and colours are reasonably handled. You aren't going to win any pixel peeping awards with this camera, but better the picture captured than the one that got away.

[LesGirrior]

Check out the Pentax Optio WP (5megapixels).  Water proof camera, so it will really go anywhere, really rugged little pocket camera.

[Gordon Buck]

I use and like the Canon G3 so can recommend the G6; however, you should probably take a close look at the Canon S70.  Although a bit larger than you might like, it does shoot in RAW mode.

[Willowroot]

The new K-M X1 is 8MP and has anti-shake.  One to check out for sure.  http://www.adorama.com/IMNDX1.html

[Lisa Nikodym]

OK, I've looked at the options suggested, and think I've found the one for me.  The newly-announced Fuji F11 is like the F10 (excellent image quality for its class, according the DPReview's review, and *really* small and light), but now with shutter priority & aperture priority modes, which is a big improvement for me.  I'll have to get used to not having an optical viewfinder, and to using fine jpg instead of RAW, but I'll live.

Thanks for all your help.  Now I just need to be patient until they become available.  

Lisa

[Gary_Berg]

Lisa, for your sanity, you probably want a camera that displays the shutter speed and f/stop it's going to use. That leaves out a lot of little cameras (like Canon Elph's), but there are always some that can give you that information.

I know I don't like a camera that doesn't display that information, I take shutter speed into account when I'm taking a picture...

[Lisa Nikodym]

I hear you, Gary, but I can't find an ultra compact that does everything I'd like, but have to prioritize what I want and go for the major things; and at this point I'm just happy to get *some* control over the shutter & aperture, which most ultra compacts don't have at all.

Keep in mind that this camera will be to carry with me all the time for those times when I wasn't expecting to want a camera, and so aren't carrying my DSLR with me.  For that, I'm willing to compromise on most anything except size & weight.  But I do want to make sure I can get as much as possible in that small a package.

Thanks,
Lisa

[Paulo Bizarro]

Lisa, I would also draw your attention to the Ricoh GR digital. Same concept as the excellent GR1 series. Apparently, it looks like the noise performance is bad at high ISO, but this depends on personal "taste". Some people do not like the heavy noise reduction going on in the Fuji F10, that allows for good results at high ISOs.

If you can live without Av and Tv modes, the Olympus Verve series is very good too.

[Ben Rubinstein]

TBH the vast majority of optical viewfinders on p&s digicams are unspeakably awful with severe cropping, no parralex correction, etc.

I wonder how many years from now we will see Leica M style cameras with full frame and interchangeable lenses at an affordable price. At the rate digital has changed in the past 5 years, I don't think it can be that far off.

[Quentin]

I'd add my vote for the Fuji F11.  I have the F10 as a carry-anywhere camera, and its image quality is on a par with a budget dslr .  I have even sold 1600 iso images from it on a mictostock site, cleaned a little with Neat image.  A great little high quality compact, so good I have even got over the lack of an optical viewfinder.  The F11 image quality should be identical but with added manual control.

Quentin