Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: 4k displays - whats the catch?  (Read 10946 times)

satybhat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35
4k displays - whats the catch?
« on: July 07, 2014, 09:09:47 pm »

OK, Apologies for posting in the wrong forum before, perhaps that's why I didn't get too many responses recently.
I ask from the POV of a budding fine art landscape photographer. Through some labourious marketing and networking, I have managed to get a contract for some fine art wall-prints. I shoot with an IQ280 back, workflow = C1Pro + CS6. Tiff, then outsourced for printing. My display is 4 yrs old calibrated HP24 inch ( non-pro grade ) and I am thinking of upgrading. Colour management is important to me. I would like something that is 27-28 inches.
Now we have noticed the new 4k displays coming in at varied prices: 800 USD, ranging up to 3000 USD, with Eizo and NEC not upgrading to 4k resolutions. So what's the catch ?
Is a well calibrated Dell / Sharp / ASUS 4K display as good as a lower resolution Eizo CG ? I am made to believe the gamuts on the newer displays are near 100% 1998-RGB as well.
What am I missing when the dealer here is still pushing me towards Eizo / NEC ?
Thanks in advance
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19733
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 09:48:15 am »

So what's the catch ?
No catch, they are coming, you'll have to wait, and it will be worth the wait if as you say, color management is important to you.
Logged
Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" on pluralsight.com

D Fosse

  • Guest
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 04:19:43 pm »

Is a well calibrated Dell / Sharp / ASUS 4K display as good as a lower resolution Eizo CG ?

No way. The reason Eizo and NEC are more expensive is that they spend money on something that doesn't turn up in the specs: extensive quality control and tight tolerances. And a superb calibration system.

Many of those low price manufacturers' business model is to inflate on-paper specifications as much as possible, at the lowest possible price. But there is no free lunch. Money has to be saved somewhere to sell at those prices.

The display is the single most critical piece of hardware you use, apart from camera/sensor and lens. The budget should reflect that.
Logged

Czornyj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1921
    • zarzadzaniebarwa.pl
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2014, 05:51:57 pm »

I didn't play with Dell and ASUS, but as for the Sharp PN-K321H it's not really impressive. It has small gamut, there's no digital uniformity compensation, so there are high luminance and chrominance deviations across the screen. There's no decent calibration solution AFAIK. There are many other minor flaws like black leaking at edges, low PWM frequency, high minimum brightness etc. Overall it's not in the same league as NEC, EIZO, or even cheaper panels and I wouldn't recommend it for colour critical applications.

howardm

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1984
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 07:21:24 am »

Sounds a lot like the old days of stereo component sales.  Fantastic on-paper spec's but real-world sound quality was always 'lacking'.

Czornyj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1921
    • zarzadzaniebarwa.pl
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 08:34:13 am »

Sounds a lot like the old days of stereo component sales.  Fantastic on-paper spec's but real-world sound quality was always 'lacking'.

Sharp's not even fantastic on paper ;)

The good news is that NEC is going to introduce an excellent 32" 4K display that is pedantically polished:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=91411.msg743865#msg743865
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 08:36:44 am by Czornyj »
Logged

Tim Lookingbill

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2436
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 05:58:45 pm »

Sounds a lot like the old days of stereo component sales.  Fantastic on-paper spec's but real-world sound quality was always 'lacking'.

You'ld need an engineer to explain and currently on the imaging side they're not talking.

But look to YouTube to get a wealth of information by and for engineers on why the specs never panned out on stereo components mainly because it was the source data and its manipulation all along by the music industry for the lack in there sound quality.

OOG in imaging is the same as why listening to music on headphones sounds crappy when it was mastered to sound great on studio monitors and vice versa now for iPhone ear buds. Lot of similarities between the two content producing technologies abound.

The adaptive effect on perception of sound is worse than our eyes viewing a display.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 06:00:48 pm by Tim Lookingbill »
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19733
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2014, 07:33:20 am »

Sharp's not even fantastic on paper ;)
Or in person! I've spent the last 2 days on location with a client working with some pretty expensive 4K devices (one 80 inches!) including the Sharp. It's the one used as a 'display' next to the 30" PA SpectraView and there is absolutely nothing the Sharp does better in terms of delivering an image to the display than the NEC. In terms of contrast ratio, smoothness of gradations, of course color gamut, purity over the entire display, the SpectraView is hugely superior visually.
Logged
Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" on pluralsight.com

Czornyj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1921
    • zarzadzaniebarwa.pl
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2014, 07:52:53 am »

It's the one used as a 'display' next to the 30" PA SpectraView and there is absolutely nothing the Sharp does better in terms of delivering an image to the display than the NEC. In terms of contrast ratio, smoothness of gradations, of course color gamut, purity over the entire display, the SpectraView is hugely superior visually.
It's actually very funny that NEC PA322UHD which also uses Sharp IGZO 32"UHD panel is... visually superior to 30" PA SpectraView.

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4053
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2014, 08:43:58 am »

I just upgraded from the older NEC 3090 to the PA302W-BK-SV.  I can say I have been working a bit in a cave.  The difference between the two technologies is amazing.  The 30" NEC is a beautiful monitor.  I am sure that in tiime the 4K will take over, but for me, this is really a nice screen. 

Had a bit of problem, as B&H shipped the Russian version of the monitor.  Same monitor but all plugs are EU, and manuals non-English. But turns out that's a NEC issue not B&H.  Spoke to NEC yesterday and they said that quite a few of the 30" meant for US did go out this way. 

Paul
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

Czornyj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1921
    • zarzadzaniebarwa.pl
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2014, 08:52:28 am »

Paul, all PA302W that I saw had Russian manual, and a whole set of EU/US cables. Russia still requires paper manual, which are abandoned in the rest of the world due to environmental issues.

PA322UHD is even a bit better than PA302W - apart from breath taking 3840x2160 resolution it additionally features OCF (Optical Compensation Film) that prevents light leaking on black typical for IPS type panels.

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19733
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2014, 09:05:12 am »

It's actually very funny that NEC PA322UHD which also uses Sharp IGZO 32"UHD panel is... visually superior to 30" PA SpectraView.
Can't wait to see it (as well as my client)!
This looks impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_gmVMWUdgI
Logged
Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" on pluralsight.com

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15529
    • Flicker photos
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2014, 09:20:22 am »

I shudder at the price this unit will go for. 

Paul2660

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4053
    • Photos of Arkansas
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2014, 09:58:57 am »

Paul, all PA302W that I saw had Russian manual, and a whole set of EU/US cables. Russia still requires paper manual, which are abandoned in the rest of the world due to environmental issues.

PA322UHD is even a bit better than PA302W - apart from breath taking 3840x2160 resolution it additionally features OCF (Optical Compensation Film) that prevents light leaking on black typical for IPS type panels.

Looks like November for the 32", I wonder what that will price in at.  The higher resolution for me, might be a problem as my older eyes, have enough trouble the the 30" res.  As you say, it should be a winner.

Paul
Logged
Paul Caldwell
Little Rock, Arkansas U.S.
www.photosofarkansas.com

Czornyj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1921
    • zarzadzaniebarwa.pl
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2014, 11:33:30 am »

Looks like November for the 32", I wonder what that will price in at.  The higher resolution for me, might be a problem as my older eyes, have enough trouble the the 30" res.  As you say, it should be a winner.

Paul

If only OSX/Windows had several HiDPI modes (like in case of Retina displays) it wouldn't be a problem - you just choose the simulated resolution look, and the UI elements are scaled to your preference, while graphic content remains beautifully detailed, crisp and sharp.

At this moment OSX simulates FHD UI on EA244UHD while it displays graphic content in UHD, but it's less flexible solution as HiDPI modes in Retinas. I hope it's only a matter of time, the switch to 4K/5K/8K/UHD displays seems to be inevitable.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 11:35:38 am by Czornyj »
Logged

ErikKaffehr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11311
    • Echophoto
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2014, 11:35:20 am »

Hi,

What I wait for is an affordable 4k projector. Affordable obviously being a quite lax definition…

Best regards
Erik


Looks like November for the 32", I wonder what that will price in at.  The higher resolution for me, might be a problem as my older eyes, have enough trouble the the 30" res.  As you say, it should be a winner.

Paul
Logged
Erik Kaffehr
 

Czornyj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1921
    • zarzadzaniebarwa.pl
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2014, 01:10:52 pm »

Hi,

What I wait for is an affordable 4k projector. Affordable obviously being a quite lax definition…

Best regards
Erik



I'm with you Erik - a super bright, super wide gamut (Rec.2020) 4K/UHD laser projector would be ideal for my educational applications - I'm always sick of these pathetic projectors I have to use while exhibition events/workshops/trade shows etc.

But considering the obviously not affordable price of the Death Star (http://www.nec-display-solutions.com/p/uk/gb/products/details/rp/NC1040L.xhtml?realm=products/choice&cat=DCP) I'm not holding my breath

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19733
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: 4k displays - whats the catch?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2014, 03:31:40 pm »

But considering the obviously not affordable price of the Death Star (http://www.nec-display-solutions.com/p/uk/gb/products/details/rp/NC1040L.xhtml?realm=products/choice&cat=DCP) I'm not holding my breath

It's a mere $170,000!
Logged
Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" on pluralsight.com
Pages: [1]   Go Up