Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Image Evaluation  (Read 5765 times)

dwdallam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
    • http://www.dwdallam.com
Image Evaluation
« on: September 18, 2005, 04:16:39 am »

OK this image was taken right out of the Sony F828 with no adjustments, except a small left crop. I'm not really concerned with color, but the comp. (The colors look good in the original, as this small compressed image looks dirty to me too.)

What I tried to do was to split the refelctions with the boats. As you can see, the horizon line where the boats meet the water is split 50%. My question is, "Is this a legitimate time to break the rules?" or is there a better way to do this?

http://www.idlethoughtsandchaos.com/photo/index.html
Logged

Ray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10475
Image Evaluation
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2005, 04:39:15 am »

Quote
OK this image was taken right out of the .....
Errr! Which image? I can't see it.
Logged

dwdallam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
    • http://www.dwdallam.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2005, 04:31:07 am »

Quote
Quote
OK this image was taken right out of the .....
Errr! Which image? I can't see it.
What are you talking about Ray? The link is right there in the original post!

<sneaks link in to edited post after forgetting it >

and here too.

http://www.idlethoughtsandchaos.com/photo/index.html
Logged

Tim Gray

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2002
    • http://www.timgrayphotography.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2005, 08:43:23 am »

I think the 50/50 composition is fine, but take a look at what it looks like with the top (roughly) 15% cropped off.  What I like about the crop is that the to edge of the frame mirrors the bottom - Ie. in the reflection the top of the mast of the Drifter is cut off by the frame (no problem) I like the crop that chops the same off the masts at the top.   Also needs some USM.
Logged

Lisa Nikodym

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1705
    • http://www.stanford.edu/~melkor/lisa_pictures/lisa_pictures.html
Image Evaluation
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2005, 12:37:11 pm »

The big problem with it composition-wise (for me, anyway; opinions vary, I'm sure) is that there is no center of attention, nothing to draw the eye.  It's too homogeneous.  One larger and more interesting boat in the middle with only smaller boats to its sides might have worked better, but the way it currently is the eye just wanders around it looking for somewhere special to settle without finding anywhere.

Beyond that, I see no problem with the 50/50 split for this photo.  Sometimes 50/50 works.

Lisa
Logged
[url=http://www.stanford.edu/~melkor/lis

jdemott

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 432
Image Evaluation
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2005, 06:19:28 pm »

The reflections in the water are quite nice--they soften the appearance of the masts and rigging and the dark tones of the water add a little mystery.  By contrast, the upper half of the photo appears cluttered and the sky has little interest. For that reason, I think I would prefer to see this shot framed so that much more of the water was visible and much less sky (with the top of the photo just above the top of the cabins of the boats).  Perhaps a slightly lower angle of view would have helped with that type of framing as it would lengthen the appearance of the reflections.  For me, it's not a question of 50/50 composition so much as it is subject matter.
Logged
John DeMott

boku

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1493
    • http://www.bobkulonphoto.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2005, 08:07:00 pm »

I can't get past the crooked horizon. How about leveling the picture using rotation. Checkout all the masts tilting to the right. Can't blame the wind, the water is still.
Logged
Bob Kulon

Oh, one more thing...[b

Jonathan Wienke

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5829
    • http://visual-vacations.com/
Image Evaluation
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2005, 09:40:29 pm »

I second Lisa and Bob's criticisms that the crooked horizon is distracting, and there's no real focus of attention here. I liked the other shot, the close-up of the Drifter better because it had an actual area of interest.
Logged

jule

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 738
    • http://www.juliestephenson.net
Image Evaluation
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2005, 09:46:33 pm »

dwdallum...I think the image seems akward. The horizon is not level, there are distracting masts all over the place, and for me there is no focus of attention. Because of this, I find the image a little boring. The lack of crispness and sharpness, with the unsaturated colours makes me I feel like I am walking along the docks on a hazy midday, perhaps after a wine,  but other than that...the image I feel is rather bland and just doesn't draw me in for further inspection.
I much preferred the interest created by the movement and abstractness of the masts on the water in your other post.
Julie
Logged

dwdallam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
    • http://www.dwdallam.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2005, 10:25:22 pm »

Quote
The big problem with it composition-wise (for me, anyway; opinions vary, I'm sure) is that there is no center of attention, nothing to draw the eye.  It's too homogeneous.  One larger and more interesting boat in the middle with only smaller boats to its sides might have worked better, but the way it currently is the eye just wanders around it looking for somewhere special to settle without finding anywhere.

Beyond that, I see no problem with the 50/50 split for this photo.  Sometimes 50/50 works.

Lisa
Yep, I understand that now well. You could have a good panorama shot of a marina, but you should ahve a nice focal point, like any other image. It's challenging in a marina. I think that's why I like it there--it is challenging, and I am learning alot by trying to shoot it.
Logged

dwdallam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
    • http://www.dwdallam.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2005, 10:27:06 pm »

Quote
The reflections in the water are quite nice--they soften the appearance of the masts and rigging and the dark tones of the water add a little mystery.  By contrast, the upper half of the photo appears cluttered and the sky has little interest. For that reason, I think I would prefer to see this shot framed so that much more of the water was visible and much less sky (with the top of the photo just above the top of the cabins of the boats).  Perhaps a slightly lower angle of view would have helped with that type of framing as it would lengthen the appearance of the reflections.  For me, it's not a question of 50/50 composition so much as it is subject matter.
OK I see that too, but my question was mainly--is a 50/50 split ok to do in some instances, this being an example?
Logged

dwdallam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
    • http://www.dwdallam.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2005, 10:29:25 pm »

Quote
I can't get past the crooked horizon. How about leveling the picture using rotation. Checkout all the masts tilting to the right. Can't blame the wind, the water is still.
BOB<---LOL, yeah I see that now too. Haven't you ever heard of "slanted water? It distracts me also now that I see it.

But seriously, yes. But about a 50/50 split?
Logged

dwdallam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
    • http://www.dwdallam.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2005, 10:36:39 pm »

Quote
dwdallum...I think the image seems akward. The horizon is not level, there are distracting masts all over the place, and for me there is no focus of attention. Because of this, I find the image a little boring. The lack of crispness and sharpness, with the unsaturated colours makes me I feel like I am walking along the docks on a hazy midday, perhaps after a wine,  but other than that...the image I feel is rather bland and just doesn't draw me in for further inspection.
I much preferred the interest created by the movement and abstractness of the masts on the water in your other post.
Julie
OK I think that too now. I was mainly focused on teh reflection and 50/50 split, but now that you call all of that into question--I agree too.

So my question now is this:  Is there no hope to get a picture like this to make photographic sense? You know, when you are there in person, that scene is beutiful to see, but when you capture it, all perspectives change, since the eye is very selective, the lens is not, and you get too busy too fast. I seem to be trying to capture too much in a picture, and need to see the same feeling in another way that allows the photographic aspect of it to have the same affect on the viewer as it had on me while taking the entire scene in.
Logged

dwdallam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
    • http://www.dwdallam.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2005, 10:41:45 pm »

OK to reply to all of you in one message--as usuall, I agree with all evaluations.

I'll have more soon, but after I get my new 20D!--woot!
Logged

jule

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 738
    • http://www.juliestephenson.net
Image Evaluation
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2005, 11:17:00 pm »

Quote
dwdallam Posted on Sep. 19 2005,22:36
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK I think that too now. I was mainly focused on teh reflection and 50/50 split, but now that you call all of that into question--I agree too.

So my question now is this:  Is there no hope to get a picture like this to make photographic sense? You know, when you are there in person, that scene is beutiful to see, but when you capture it, all perspectives change, since the eye is very selective, the lens is not, and you get too busy too fast. I seem to be trying to capture too much in a picture, and need to see the same feeling in another way that allows the photographic aspect of it to have the same affect on the viewer as it had on me while taking the entire scene in.

Firstly, I would disagree with you, and I would think that the lens is far more selective than the eye. Learning how to capture throught the selective lens is what photography is all about.

Secondyl, Hmmmmm...difficult to answer your question. Some scenes lend themselves more to capturing the feeling than others. I am going to be brutally honest here and say that 'mast reflections on the water' are dime a dozen and can be very ho hum...and yours was like that for me personally. So you may perhaps need to ask youself whether you want to take the image so you yourself want to remember the scene and feeling, or whether you want the viewer to respond and remember YOUR image, by creating an image which in itself is memorable. To succeed in this, is what most photographers seek...that elusive "x" factor.

I mentioned "focus of attention" which is a little different perhaps than focal point. In your other post - the focus of attention for me was the fantastic reflections on the water, embodying movement and interest, whereas for me in this image there was nothing that really focussed my attention anywhere. There was nothing which was striking, nothing had that 'x-factor'..and I don't mean just a paricular object....even the mood - it wasn't striking.

..so with reference to this image....and the nature of the cliched 'mast reflections on the water image', I would firstly ask myself what feeling I am connecting with and how can I portray that feeling in a 'different' way than has been done before. If you are trying to create serenity and peacefulless, the image may need to have vast expanses of space and graduated colourings - rather than cluttered angular lines everywhere. Curves of hulls, soft edges of timber pilons, moving reflections - all support that feeling that you expressed you wanted to convey.

Ask yourself how can I portray this in a 'different, unique ' way which will make people stop and take notice and respond to my image. Perhaps explore different viewing angles. Try getting low down on the water-line, isolating one craft in an expanse, ask someone if you can board their boat to get a different perspective. Just a few thoughts...
Julie
Logged

dwdallam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
    • http://www.dwdallam.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2005, 02:43:08 am »

Jule,

Yes I agree with what you have said here too.

As an unimportant after thought, what I meant about the eye being mroe selective than the lens is that your eye connected to your brain has the ability to see only what it wants to see, completely blurring out the surrounding areas or simply ignoring them; whereas the lens does not. I have to create that.
Logged

jule

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 738
    • http://www.juliestephenson.net
Image Evaluation
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2005, 04:42:23 am »

Quote
As an unimportant after thought, what I meant about the eye being mroe selective than the lens is that your eye connected to your brain has the ability to see only what it wants to see, completely blurring out the surrounding areas or simply ignoring them; whereas the lens does not. I have to create that
.....ahhhhh , I see what you meant.
Julie
Logged

jdemott

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 432
Image Evaluation
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2005, 11:53:55 am »

Quote
OK I see that too, but my question was mainly--is a 50/50 split ok to do in some instances, this being an example?

Is a 50/50 split okay in some instances?--yes.

This being an example?--IMHO, no, for the reasons I stated (i.e., the area above the horizon is cluttered and the sky lacks interest).  Also, I think 50/50 probably works better when you have some stronger lines in the subject--perhaps one ship with very clean, dramatic lines rather than a row of similar objects.
Logged
John DeMott

Steven M Anthony

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 47
    • www.smaphoto.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2005, 01:29:36 pm »

Quote
So my question now is this:  Is there no hope to get a picture like this to make photographic sense? You know, when you are there in person, that scene is beutiful to see, but when you capture it, all perspectives change, since the eye is very selective, the lens is not, and you get too busy too fast. I seem to be trying to capture too much in a picture, and need to see the same feeling in another way that allows the photographic aspect of it to have the same affect on the viewer as it had on me while taking the entire scene in.

You bring up an interesting (at least to me) topic.  How do you capture the scene you see with your eye with your camera.

One thing that stands in the way of doing this, as you point out, is one's brain.  It not only selectively attends to what you find interesting, but it also processes other sensory input like smell, temperature, sounds, etc., that all go into creating how you feel when taking the photo.  And let's not forget mental associations (e.g., that reminds me of my grandfather's boat...).

The fact that you find the scene beautiful is a result of all these senses and feelings and memories--some are conscious to the photog, some might be subconscious.

To me, the art of photography is presenting the scene in a way that conveys all (or at least most) of this to the viewer.

I attempt to do this with all the compositional tools at my disposal--framing, DoF, shutter speed, exposure compensation, lens, angle of attack, post-processing (b/w, color, sepia, etc), paper, etc.

Of course, I do a better job of this when I realize all the senses, feelings and memories at play for a given scene.
Logged
Steve

[url=http://www.smaphoto.co

dwdallam

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2044
    • http://www.dwdallam.com
Image Evaluation
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2005, 04:13:04 pm »

Quote
Quote
OK I see that too, but my question was mainly--is a 50/50 split ok to do in some instances, this being an example?

Is a 50/50 split okay in some instances?--yes.

This being an example?--IMHO, no, for the reasons I stated (i.e., the area above the horizon is cluttered and the sky lacks interest).  Also, I think 50/50 probably works better when you have some stronger lines in the subject--perhaps one ship with very clean, dramatic lines rather than a row of similar objects.
Ahh ok that makes sense.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up