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Author Topic: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!  (Read 3586 times)

allegretto

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Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« on: May 28, 2014, 08:18:24 am »

Last November it occurred to me that LR may not be the best PP system available. So, with Credit Card in hand went about to buy C1 and see if it was “better”

Quickly realized that indeed my 6D files were better “out of the box” with C1 but no realistic archiving system in that program so I bought Media Pro 1 as the ultimate partner. MP1 is a nice program that allows saving and linking of all types of files. Just the kind of thing a Pro or serious amateur needs

OK, chugging along. Crash here, Crash there. A dozen or so tickets with Customer Service. Crash reports (which tie up the computer quite a bit). Many of you know the routine... “its your computer”/ “we’re not sure” / or simply no reply at all

On the Forum here, on the C1 Forum. Still a buggy and unfriendly program. My computer BTW is a full-blown iMac 27 with 32G that runs everything flawlessly and FAST. Not so fast with C1 and its endless internal file re-management

Then... last week... I discovered the DxO 9.5 plug-in for LR. Already had 9.0 but didn’t use much since so much file conversion back and forth had previously been necessary and so keeper files and associated “inter-files” were huge and time-consuming to derive and left junk all over

Summary; LR/DxO almost as good as C1 for Canon. Much better for M240 files and as good or better for Sony RX-1 and 100 Mk II

So... that’s it...! I’m done with C1. Too many crashes, too many promises, too many lost hours. Awful, and I do mean AWFUL keywording. Clumsy tools interspersed among useful ones.

Way too much going wrong to justify what goes right.

LR/DxO is very slick and just works. May continue with MP1 for archiving files... will see

But what a waste of time and money!!!

Apologies to C1 folks. Perhaps it’s just me... but it is what it is
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The View

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 08:10:50 pm »

That's interesting, allegretto.

I didn't know you could plug in another RAW converter into LR. That's quite generous of Adobe.

Now if there would be a Capture One Pro 7 plugin for LR, that would be perfect. You'd get a good catalog and a good RAW converter. I'd even pay full price for C1Pro without the catalog.

What do you shoot that DxO is so great? I mean, C1 Pro is thought very well for fashion and architecture. (So far I only heard about DxO in regards to its lens correction feature).

What about skin tone. Capture One Pro 7 is top of the line in skin tone - how does it compare?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 08:17:01 pm by The View »
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Jimmy D Uptain

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2014, 07:41:07 am »

If C1 had LR's cataloging AND printing, I would weep with joy. Really.
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allegretto

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 08:07:39 am »

you're right. C1 has my 6D nailed and I may go to washing in C1 and exporting a DNG to LR after all if I can't get DxO to do what I want. The Canon files just sparkle in C1

for right now I'll fiddle with LR's controls after DxO.

Nothing is perfectly bad or good it would seem




That's interesting, allegretto.

I didn't know you could plug in another RAW converter into LR. That's quite generous of Adobe.

Now if there would be a Capture One Pro 7 plugin for LR, that would be perfect. You'd get a good catalog and a good RAW converter. I'd even pay full price for C1Pro without the catalog.

What do you shoot that DxO is so great? I mean, C1 Pro is thought very well for fashion and architecture. (So far I only heard about DxO in regards to its lens correction feature).

What about skin tone. Capture One Pro 7 is top of the line in skin tone - how does it compare?
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 10:05:28 am »

Just to save you a headache...

You can't export a DNG (raw file) and have any of the raw processing of C1.

If you want the raw processing quality, nuance, color, and power of C1 you need to process your raws in C1. If you repackage them into another raw format (DNG) you will not have processed the raw and will not get any of C1's raw processing.

I've found C1v7 to be very stable since v7.2 in 10.8 and 10.9 across all recent professional macs. It's catalog system is a first generation and is not as refined or robust as the 5th generation catalog in LRv5. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from using LR to catalog and C1 to process; the workflow for this is something we cover in our Capture One Masters Program (upon participant request). For several years I used Aperture to catalog and C1 to process. My personal cataloging needs have changed since then and I am entirely session based.

allegretto

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 12:57:42 pm »

thanks for the info

Think I would first bring it into C1 for processing, export as TIFF then import to LR…?

Would that work?



Just to save you a headache...

You can't export a DNG (raw file) and have any of the raw processing of C1.

If you want the raw processing quality, nuance, color, and power of C1 you need to process your raws in C1. If you repackage them into another raw format (DNG) you will not have processed the raw and will not get any of C1's raw processing.

I've found C1v7 to be very stable since v7.2 in 10.8 and 10.9 across all recent professional macs. It's catalog system is a first generation and is not as refined or robust as the 5th generation catalog in LRv5. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from using LR to catalog and C1 to process; the workflow for this is something we cover in our Capture One Masters Program (upon participant request). For several years I used Aperture to catalog and C1 to process. My personal cataloging needs have changed since then and I am entirely session based.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 01:09:24 pm »

Hi,

I have a lot of respect for C1, but it has never worked for me. It simply doesn't work for me. Part of that is that it is like Lightroom was made for me. I was pretty much on way of writing a program like LR the time it arrived.

That said, my experience with C1 was that it was very stable in my environment.

The reason I skipped it was that it did not match my workflow and also it didn't match my way of processing images. I was elated, once I made the decision to skip it.

Best regards
Erik



Last November it occurred to me that LR may not be the best PP system available. So, with Credit Card in hand went about to buy C1 and see if it was “better”

Quickly realized that indeed my 6D files were better “out of the box” with C1 but no realistic archiving system in that program so I bought Media Pro 1 as the ultimate partner. MP1 is a nice program that allows saving and linking of all types of files. Just the kind of thing a Pro or serious amateur needs

OK, chugging along. Crash here, Crash there. A dozen or so tickets with Customer Service. Crash reports (which tie up the computer quite a bit). Many of you know the routine... “its your computer”/ “we’re not sure” / or simply no reply at all

On the Forum here, on the C1 Forum. Still a buggy and unfriendly program. My computer BTW is a full-blown iMac 27 with 32G that runs everything flawlessly and FAST. Not so fast with C1 and its endless internal file re-management

Then... last week... I discovered the DxO 9.5 plug-in for LR. Already had 9.0 but didn’t use much since so much file conversion back and forth had previously been necessary and so keeper files and associated “inter-files” were huge and time-consuming to derive and left junk all over

Summary; LR/DxO almost as good as C1 for Canon. Much better for M240 files and as good or better for Sony RX-1 and 100 Mk II

So... that’s it...! I’m done with C1. Too many crashes, too many promises, too many lost hours. Awful, and I do mean AWFUL keywording. Clumsy tools interspersed among useful ones.

Way too much going wrong to justify what goes right.

LR/DxO is very slick and just works. May continue with MP1 for archiving files... will see

But what a waste of time and money!!!

Apologies to C1 folks. Perhaps it’s just me... but it is what it is
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Bryan Conner

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 01:24:06 pm »



OK, chugging along. Crash here, Crash there. A dozen or so tickets with Customer Service. Crash reports (which tie up the computer quite a bit). Many of you know the routine... “its your computer”/ “we’re not sure” / or simply no reply at all



The terrible customer service is what made me abandon Capture One.  I just can not understand how ANY company today can not understand that customer service is a product just the same as any other product that they sell.  It is a complete package.  I suspect that this lack of good, caring, attentive customer service is one of the reasons that Capture One has not approached Adobe in market share.

DXO has it's downside too.  No ProPhoto support, does not fully support all dng files etc. 

Both C1 and DXO are oh so close to being in the ballgame with Adobe, but they just do not put forth that little bit of effort that is needed...or they do not really care or want to compete.  It is disappointing to say the least.
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 03:01:11 pm »

Think I would first bring it into C1 for processing, export as TIFF then import to LR…?

Would that work?

Yes.

Keith Reeder

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2014, 05:03:00 pm »

DXO has it's downside too.  No ProPhoto support, does not fully support all dng files etc. 

And abysmal high DR (shadows/highlights) management...
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Keith Reeder
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Jimmy D Uptain

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2014, 06:58:08 pm »

thanks for the info

Think I would first bring it into C1 for processing, export as TIFF then import to LR…?

Would that work?




This is pretty much what I do. Of course I keep the original raw as well. You never know what goodness the software folks will come up with.
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Paul2660

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 09:08:50 am »

Doug's point on the gen1 one of the catalog is a good one.  Capture 1 did not have a catalog option until version 7. 

I use both, LR and C1, and I use both in session mode.  I have no desire to have every image I shoot cataloged.  In fact, I wish LR would work in session mode.  It's a personal preference I realize that, but to compare and downgrade the software because the catalog is not as robust as LR's, to me seems a bit harsh. 

I have used C1 on the window's platform since 3.7.x and LR since it's inception.  Both programs have issues, but I prefer the output from C1 in many cases, especially with a Phase One back, where LCC processing is required.

The fact that Phase One chooses not to have any phone support doesn't surprise me as they don't have it on their digital backs either, as they rely totally on their dealer channel for this type of support.  Where I feel the breakdown occurs is when a non back user is having trouble and only has the software trouble case as a way to get support.  With older versions, 6.x and older, I did tend to see a lot more trouble between releases, and always had a image of my OS before I upgraded.  Since 7 I have not run into these types of issues and the software seems much more stable.  Due to the makeup of Phase One, I don't feel that they will ever have any phone support for C1. 

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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allegretto

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Re: Cant keep doing this… I'm out!
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2014, 12:43:35 pm »

yes, of course.

I too wish there was a way to delete useless images from LR but not import them the next time that card is in. Maybe there is and I'm missing it. But there is no catchment for dupes at all in a C1 import

Yes I like highlight/shadow in C1, but LR is pretty good. it the subtle tones from Canon files that I like in C1. Not too red as it seems Nikon and even many Sony files come out. Just my tastes of course, YMMV

And I am sure that C1 makes great sense with their hardware. Don't need phone support, just a real attempt at problem solving. Further, when it gets a stroke and starts updating 438 files in the middle of a busy flow it's rather off-putting.

and then there is the crash...




Doug's point on the gen1 one of the catalog is a good one.  Capture 1 did not have a catalog option until version 7. 

I use both, LR and C1, and I use both in session mode.  I have no desire to have every image I shoot cataloged.  In fact, I wish LR would work in session mode.  It's a personal preference I realize that, but to compare and downgrade the software because the catalog is not as robust as LR's, to me seems a bit harsh. 

I have used C1 on the window's platform since 3.7.x and LR since it's inception.  Both programs have issues, but I prefer the output from C1 in many cases, especially with a Phase One back, where LCC processing is required.

The fact that Phase One chooses not to have any phone support doesn't surprise me as they don't have it on their digital backs either, as they rely totally on their dealer channel for this type of support.  Where I feel the breakdown occurs is when a non back user is having trouble and only has the software trouble case as a way to get support.  With older versions, 6.x and older, I did tend to see a lot more trouble between releases, and always had a image of my OS before I upgraded.  Since 7 I have not run into these types of issues and the software seems much more stable.  Due to the makeup of Phase One, I don't feel that they will ever have any phone support for C1. 

Paul
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