Pentax 645Z

[eronald]

i agree. seeing the prices on ebay and the 2 major dealers for 2nd hand backs, i believe that you are looking at, in the post pentax 645z mfdb market, at least a 40 to 50 percent reduction in price for p45/p45+ on down. the ability to use on view cameras for most photographers does not justify today's 2nd hand market prices.

There are probably enough Phase and Hassy backs already in the market to satisfy the needs of tech cam shooters for the next decade - and Azrael and Samael will be pleased to sell them to you with a warranty ...

Edmund

[araucaria]

I wonder how the pentax compares to the d800 in the noise/DR department. I only find the d800 usable @ iso 100, is this still the case with the new sony sensor?

[uaiomex]

Lloyd Chambers has just confirmed the Pentax Z has no electronic first curtain.  
I think this issue and the mirror vibration (even if dampened) could produce a sizable difference in sharpness with tech cams.
What do you guys think?
Eduardo

[eronald]

Lloyd Chambers has just confirmed the Pentax Z has no electronic first curtain.  
I think this issue and the mirror vibration (even if dampened) could produce a sizable difference in sharpness with tech cams.
What do you guys think?
Eduardo

I think you're completely right. Not only that, but the Hassy with its leaf shutter is possibly sharper too

Edmund

[Jim Kasson]

Lloyd Chambers has just confirmed the Pentax Z has no electronic first curtain.  
I think this issue and the mirror vibration (even if dampened) could produce a sizable difference in sharpness with tech cams.
What do you guys think?

If you're comparing it to a tech cam, you've probably got plenty of time to turn off live view and/or lock the mirror up. That still leaves acceleration and deceleration of the first curtain, and acceleration of the second. From the 1/125 synch speed, it looks like the shutter acceleration (and thus deceleration) is about the same as, say, a D800.

Jim

[Theodoros]

Just for clarification. I understand all Pentax 645 lenses being manufactured today cover the 42X56mm area. Right?

If this is true, doesn't this hint that a full-frame 645 body will come sooner or later?

Eduardo

It doesn't hint anything... it's just a precaution to ensure that the system will be compatible if things turn that way in the future... Nobody has a crystal ball these days.

[eronald]

If you're comparing it to a tech cam, you've probably got plenty of time to turn off live view and/or lock the mirror up. That still leaves acceleration and deceleration of the first curtain, and acceleration of the second. From the 1/125 synch speed, it looks like the shutter acceleration (and thus deceleration) is about the same as, say, a D800.

Jim

Ah, they've left 5 axis stabilisation to the next liveview only model.

Edmund

[Theodoros]

I wonder how the pentax compares to the d800 in the noise/DR department. I only find the d800 usable @ iso 100, is this still the case with the new sony sensor?

Who cares to buy an MF system for ultra high Iso performance? ...Faster lenses of FF format will always benefit FF cameras on that region... One buys MF to improve on his studio, landscape or artistic photography, not to shoot sports or wildlife at dim light.

[Theodoros]

If you're comparing it to a tech cam, you've probably got plenty of time to turn off live view and/or lock the mirror up. That still leaves acceleration and deceleration of the first curtain, and acceleration of the second. From the 1/125 synch speed, it looks like the shutter acceleration (and thus deceleration) is about the same as, say, a D800.

Jim

Jim, Eronald, ....aren't you forgetting that acceleration/deceleration mostly occurs outside the image area of what 33mm covers?  The shutter mech can cover 42mm ...remember? 

[araucaria]

Who cares to buy an MF system for ultra high Iso performance? ...Faster lenses of FF format will always benefit FF cameras on that region... One buys MF to improve on his studio, landscape or artistic photography, not to shoot sports or wildlife at dim light.

Sometimes I like to take a landscape shot while wandering without setting up the tripod, but the d800 colors start to look awful when underexposing or going up the isos, so I am wondering how the new pentax behaves in this regard.

[Theodoros]

Sometimes I like to take a landscape shot while wandering without setting up the tripod, but the d800 colors start to look awful when underexposing or going up the isos, so I am wondering how the new pentax behaves in this regard.

What that has to do with high Iso/DR comparison? All DSLR colours suck when compared to an MF sensor... even at base Iso...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Ultra high speed means good shadow detail, in best of case good shadow detail and good DR. Ranking up ISO means underexposure, simply enough. Bad high ISO performance essentially means noisy sensor, noisy signal processing or both.

That is the short version. For the long version read: http://theory.uchicago.edu/~ejm/pix/20d/tests/noise/index.html

Best regards
Erik

Sometimes I like to take a landscape shot while wandering without setting up the tripod, but the d800 colors start to look awful when underexposing or going up the isos, so I am wondering how the new pentax behaves in this regard.

[araucaria]

Shure, but how does the Pentax perform?

[LKaven]

Just for clarification. I understand all Pentax 645 lenses being manufactured today cover the 42X56mm area. Right?

If this is true, doesn't this hint that a full-frame 645 body will come sooner or later?

I think it means that at the introduction of the 645 (mark I) they had a lineup of proven lenses and a manufacturing setup for making them.  They also had a user base with existing lenses that would work with the new camera, which would accelerate adoption.  It also means that they have the option of making a full 645 body at some point at their option.

[ErikKaffehr]

Well,

It should be identical to the IQ-250, regarding sensor quality at base ISO. Going to extreme ISO ratings, I would say that Pentax does some noise reduction tricks which Phase may not exercise. The Sony EXMOR chip used by both probably has some option for selectable noise reduction.

Best regards
Erik

Shure, but how does the Pentax perform?

[MrSmith]

Who cares to buy an MF system for ultra high Iso performance? ...Faster lenses of FF format will always benefit FF cameras on that region... One buys MF to improve on his studio, landscape or artistic photography, not to shoot sports or wildlife at dim light.

Seriously? You need to step outside your comfort zone and think about how all those images you see in the media are captured. Believe it or not not every commercial image you see has a team of 5, a huge grip truck and 20'000 joules of flash to light it. Lots of people work with small portable lighting of 500-1000w and have to produce the goods within time and budget constraints and hand over a decent sized tiff.

I'm shooting a bling watch/mclaren sports car for an editorial client next week on location and taking everything I need in a roller case and backpack and have about an hour and a half to do the shoot. I may need to be at 400asa or higher depending on how I light and the ambient lighting,  if I do I don't want to worry about noise. I'll be shooting on an A7r, I would happily shoot on a sony 50mp sensor. I wouldn't contemplate it on a p45.

[Theodoros]

Seriously? You need to step outside your comfort zone and think about how all those images you see in the media are captured. Believe it or not not every commercial image you see has a team of 5, a huge grip truck and 20'000 joules of flash to light it. Lots of people work with small portable lighting of 500-1000w and have to produce the goods within time and budget constraints and hand over a decent sized tiff.

I'm shooting a bling watch/mclaren sports car for an editorial client next week on location and taking everything I need in a roller case and backpack and have about an hour and a half to do the shoot. I may need to be at 400asa or higher depending on how I light and the ambient lighting,  if I do I don't want to worry about noise. I'll be shooting on an A7r, I would happily shoot on a sony 50mp sensor. I wouldn't contemplate it on a p45.

What all that has to do with my comment? ...what your project has to do with my opinion on D800 vs. "Z" comparison at ultra high Iso (presumably higher than 3200) that I replied on?

[MrSmith]

Ah, apologies. I have speed read and missed the crucial 'ultra'
Though that definition is getting higher over time.

Though my comment was partly about "One buys MF to improve on his studio, landscape or artistic photography" there are many areas outside those where the ability to shoot high asa and hand over a big file with no noise issues are an advantage.

[eronald]

Seriously? You need to step outside your comfort zone and think about how all those images you see in the media are captured. Believe it or not not every commercial image you see has a team of 5, a huge grip truck and 20'000 joules of flash to light it. Lots of people work with small portable lighting of 500-1000w and have to produce the goods within time and budget constraints and hand over a decent sized tiff.

I'm shooting a bling watch/mclaren sports car for an editorial client next week on location and taking everything I need in a roller case and backpack and have about an hour and a half to do the shoot. I may need to be at 400asa or higher depending on how I light and the ambient lighting,  if I do I don't want to worry about noise. I'll be shooting on an A7r, I would happily shoot on a sony 50mp sensor. I wouldn't contemplate it on a p45.

You're lying. You don't exist. ( ) At least that's what P1 want everyone to believe. Because the guy who arrives with the canned sunlight and the hot assistant and cold buffet cart and the crane and the giraffe can *afford* to get the back or rent it, while somebody who just quietly makes a picture can and in fact probably needs to use ... something with a Sony sensor - precisely because of lights.

I know this game - when I did editorials for a year or so, I used a dSLR  - and I still remember how I came to one job with a folded Elinchrom Octabank, which is about the size of a small beach umbrella, and the magazine AD canted her nose up at a 45 degree angle and asked me how come I hadn't brought any lights (!).

Edmund

[BJL]

I understand all Pentax 645 lenses being manufactured today cover the 42X56mm area. Right?

If this is true, doesn't this hint that a full-frame 645 body will come sooner or later?

Most of these "FA 645" lenses were originally design for 645 format film cameras, before the 645D. I only know of one new "FA 645" lens that covers the 70mm image circle of 645 format even though covering only the 55mm image circle of 44x33mm would have simplified the design: the 55/2.8 mm.  Some plausible explanations for that include:
a) covering the possibility of returning to 645 format, and
b) making that lens attractive to the many people still using Pentax 645 film cameras (who greatly outnumber owners of the 645D), and so increasing its sales.


P. S. The 25mm is an "DA 645", meaning I think that it only overs the smaller 44x33 format.  What other new "645" lenses has Pentax introduced since it discontinued the 645 film cameras?