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Author Topic: Debate  (Read 17339 times)

Rob C

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Re: Debate
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2014, 02:27:58 pm »


Hopefully we will soon have quantum computers operating at blazingly fast speeds.  ;)



Hopefully, we will not.

I spent some time working on a pic this afternoon, yes, on Windows 8, and at a particular stage quite near completion, I hit something on the keyboard by mistake, and my adapted configuration for W8, which removes it from the original horror picture show and into a mode closer to W7 and earlier, vanished in an instant, reverting to W8 'standard' and leaving me no way of swapping back without closing down.

Clearly, I lost all my work.

I think innovation can be a pain in the ass; it generally represents nothing more than the greed of the manufacturers to screw yet more from our pockets.

Rob C

Isaac

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Re: Debate
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2014, 12:09:10 am »

There is a place for both science and religion.  It's not a matter of either or.  Science tries to explain the how and religion the why.  Each should stay out of the domain of the other.  We'd all be better off since our bodies, brains and spirit need both.

A poem.
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David Sutton

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Re: Debate
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2014, 01:19:01 am »

I've put off reading this thread as like many here I'm afraid it will become the sport of trolls and a train wreck. Can't you just see it coming?
Oh well, here's my tuppence worth for whatever its value.  :)
In the words of another: "To live is to seek knowledge and fulfilment on the one hand, and to also have touched at the heart of life and death through experience of the sacred....It is always a source of wonder that the unseen and intangible tie or hold us to the world that is so visible, filled with different life forms - that is what makes the sacred difficult to discuss. When you wonder - you are silent".
For myself, the bible is a bit like a camera manual, forgive the analogy. You can read it all you want, but one day you have to go out and fire the shutter and be assessed on the results.
Now I'm going to put the boot in. I have met some folk from the creationist community. Apparently they believe the Creator of All That Is faked the age of the world. How is that not blasphemy?
David S

PS Yes Rob. Every time I hear the words "new model" it's time to lock up the wallet. Otherwise known as a pain in the ass reliever.
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Debate
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2014, 04:54:59 am »

If ever a thread begged to be closed after the first post, this is the one.  :)

Why?  As far as I can see it has remained very civil and is a lot more interesting than why a Canon is better than a Nikon or "Is Adobe ripping us all off with CC".  I'm not a believer but I find it fascinating to hear all the opinions on the subject.

Jim
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Rob C

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Re: Debate
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2014, 05:45:12 am »

Just think about this sort of thing: emotion.

Do the other animals feel it too? Is there a version of it in the howling of a wolf? (No famous r'n'b reference intended here.)

For myself, things such as art, though quite different in its many genres, mark the separation between man and beast. As far as music goes, could I but do any single thing this guy does (both would have me feel greedy), I'd throw away all the cameras at once and immerse myself in the simple, unPhotoshopped beauty of it all.

No photograph has ever brought similar depths of emotion to me as does music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06xZyh8VBFQ

Oh that we could choose our own qualities.

Rob C

mezzoduomo

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Re: Debate
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2014, 07:47:37 am »

Why?  As far as I can see it has remained very civil and is a lot more interesting than why a Canon is better than a Nikon or "Is Adobe ripping us all off with CC".  I'm not a believer but I find it fascinating to hear all the opinions on the subject.

Jim

Well, I would say you're right, Jim. It has remained civil. My point was that the first post struck me as the kind of post that could have triggered something quite different.
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Debate
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2014, 10:35:46 am »

Well, I would say you're right, Jim. It has remained civil. My point was that the first post struck me as the kind of post that could have triggered something quite different.

I have to say I was worried about it too..... but it seems to be running okay at the moment and do find these threads can be illuminating as long as they don't get hijacked.

Jim
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Jim Pascoe

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Re: Debate
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2014, 10:38:11 am »

Just think about this sort of thing: emotion.

Do the other animals feel it too? Is there a version of it in the howling of a wolf? (No famous r'n'b reference intended here.)

For myself, things such as art, though quite different in its many genres, mark the separation between man and beast. As far as music goes, could I but do any single thing this guy does (both would have me feel greedy), I'd throw away all the cameras at once and immerse myself in the simple, unPhotoshopped beauty of it all.

No photograph has ever brought similar depths of emotion to me as does music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06xZyh8VBFQ

Oh that we could choose our own qualities.

Rob C

Rob, perhaps you should start another thread about human emotion or whatever.

Jim
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mezzoduomo

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Re: Debate
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2014, 01:07:47 pm »

Just think about this sort of thing: emotion.

Do the other animals feel it too? Is there a version of it in the howling of a wolf? (No famous r'n'b reference intended here.)

For myself, things such as art, though quite different in its many genres, mark the separation between man and beast. As far as music goes, could I but do any single thing this guy does (both would have me feel greedy), I'd throw away all the cameras at once and immerse myself in the simple, unPhotoshopped beauty of it all.

No photograph has ever brought similar depths of emotion to me as does music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06xZyh8VBFQ

Oh that we could choose our own qualities.

Rob C

Apropos of your post and of this whole thread, it occurs to me that Jerry Lee and his cousin Jimmy Swaggart had similar musical sensibilities, but somewhat different underlying messages, and different emotional impact.
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Rob C

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Re: Debate
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2014, 02:32:16 pm »

Rob, perhaps you should start another thread about human emotion or whatever.

Jim


There's a problem: only a holistic approach makes sense... I think religion is a massive part of the human psyche, and emotion crosses into and pretty much through everything we do. How does one separate yet stay true?

Even those who have no faith can't keep aloof; their lives are ever in contact with the others, whose faith may well remain undisclosed, but the implications and edicts of which still, to one degree or another, effect the behavioural front or interface with the rest of humanity.

We truly are our brothers' keepers!

Rob C

Rob C

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Re: Debate
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2014, 02:53:13 pm »

Apropos of your post and of this whole thread, it occurs to me that Jerry Lee and his cousin Jimmy Swaggart had similar musical sensibilities, but somewhat different underlying messages, and different emotional impact.


Saw a clip recently where little sis (no mean boogie pianist herself) was talking about Jerry Lee's musical problems with the church: she played and sang a couple of lines of a straight version of a gospel song - there are some things I must not do... and then exactly the same thing in her brother's style. Magical. Minute changes, but huge emotional muscle.

If you watch film of some of the small, black church congregations at worship, they do exactly the same thing, and far from sinking into blasphemy or disrespect, I think they achieve the opposite: a true and deeply personal connection with the spirit of the God they are worshipping. Sometimes, I think the concept of sophistication is a barrier to truth and connectivity.

Rob C

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Debate
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2014, 02:58:27 pm »

I think religion is a massive part of the human psyche

It's part of a quest for reason: why did this happen? why are we here? what's life for? Religion provides an answer. It's not one I'd subscribe to, but it makes some people happy and secure. To non-believers, it looks suspiciously like a comfort blanket.

As Voltaire observed, perhaps not entirely without cynicism, "Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer".

Jeremy
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WalterEG

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Re: Debate
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2014, 03:03:34 pm »

Sometimes, I think the concept of sophistication is a barrier to truth and connectivity.  Rob C

AMEN
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Rob C

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Re: Debate
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2014, 03:10:04 pm »

It's part of a quest for reason: why did this happen? why are we here? what's life for? Religion provides an answer. It's not one I'd subscribe to, but it makes some people happy and secure. To non-believers, it looks suspiciously like a comfort blanket.

As Voltaire observed, perhaps not entirely without cynicism, "Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer".

Jeremy


Maybe he was just pissed that the opportunity to do so himself had long passed...

Rob C

Alan Klein

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Re: Debate
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2014, 10:12:52 pm »

It's part of a quest for reason: why did this happen? why are we here? what's life for? Religion provides an answer. It's not one I'd subscribe to, but it makes some people happy and secure. To non-believers, it looks suspiciously like a comfort blanket.

As Voltaire observed, perhaps not entirely without cynicism, "Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer".

Jeremy

If not God, man finds other things to worship.  Science. Government. Alcohol and drugs. Money.  There are all kinds of idols.  The common denominator is man seems to want to have faith in something, believe in something as all powerful, even if himself.

Misirlou

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Re: Debate
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2014, 10:37:34 pm »

If not God, man finds other things to worship.  Science. Government. Alcohol and drugs. Money.  There are all kinds of idols.  The common denominator is man seems to want to have faith in something, believe in something as all powerful, even if himself.

+1
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Ray

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Re: Debate
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2014, 08:06:13 am »

We should not forget what a potentially powerful instrument of social control a religion can be. The concept of eternal damnation in a fiery hell must sometimes be a powerful deterrent against bad behaviour for certain believers, just as the concept of a life of eternal bliss in a heaven is an alluring reward for good behaviour.

One wonders just how many people throughout history have refrained from acts of theft, assault and murder as a result of their considering the consequent punishment of such actions after their death.

I'm reminded of a quote from Mohammed, "This world is like a prison for the true believers, but a paradise for the non-believers." The implication here is that the true believer who dutifully tolerates the prison rules will be rewarded in heaven, perhaps even with a few virgins if he's a male; whereas the non-believer who wantonly satisfies his lusts and lascivious desires will meet with eternal punishment after death, which will be much more severe, of course, than any prison sentence on earth.

I'm also reminded of the following passage from Mathew 5.29, which seems to express a similar sentiment that it's better to rigidly comply with certain rules and restrictions, such as refraining from lusting after women, rather than be cast into hell.

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out,
and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for
thee that one of thy members should perish, and
not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Although, to be reasonable, if thy right eye offend thee, I think it would be better to wear an eye patch instead of plucking out the eye.  ;D
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Isaac

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Re: Debate
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2014, 11:01:33 am »

If not God, man finds other things to worship.  Science. Government. Alcohol and drugs. Money.  There are all kinds of idols.  The common denominator is man seems to want to have faith in something, believe in something as all powerful, even if himself.

God is that which we value above all else.

That may be much the same for those who identify with a religion and those who don't.

(I don't think we'd say someone has faith in alcohol or other drugs or money. Faith in Government? Apparently "If Only the Führer Knew!" was not an uncommon sentiment but that's not faith in the institution of government. Science? "Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.")
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david loble

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Re: Debate
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2014, 11:26:32 am »

As much as I have enjoyed reading this thread I never thought I would post something to it. But, in today's New York Times there is an article about domesticated camels in, or not in, Genesis.

The link: http://nyti.ms/1m2LV2o

It isn't my intention to start a debate along the lines of  "The Media, good or bad."  Simply thought the article was interesting and germane to the thread.

David
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Debate
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2014, 12:11:43 pm »

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