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Author Topic: Why I Bought the a7R  (Read 21665 times)

Graham Clark

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2014, 01:27:29 pm »

Hi,

I prefer a camera with OLP-filtering. The reason is that I feel it is the right way to go. I also think that the right way to go is smaller pixels (within reasonable limits). This is a small article describing the issue:

http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/78-aliasing-and-supersampling-why-small-pixels-are-good

Regarding the second question I use the P45+ on a Hasselblad with 5 Zeiss lenses. Here is a summary of the experience this far: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/80-my-mfd-journey-summing-up

The way I see it, the sensor should outresolve the lens, and the best way to achieve that is reducing pixel size. Adding an OLP filter is second best.

Just to explain, AA-filtering and OLP-filtering are interchangable terms. OLP filtering stands for Optical Low Pass. 

Best regards
Erik


Awesome site, tons of great information.

Taking all this into consideration how would you measure the resolving power of the lens against a respective sensor?
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Graham Clark

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2014, 01:32:06 pm »

I'm basing this on info from this review among others: http://www.fredmiranda.com/A7R-review/

Quote: "Step one in adapting a lens: Find a high quality adapter. Unfortunately, this is not as easy as it sounds. My options were limited, and my good options few and far between. After trying a couple brands, the best I found was the Metabones Mark III. But, I had sample variation among the different Metabones adapters I tested. Before you start out, it’s crucial to get a well-centered adapter. Any mount tilt will translate to blurry edges when using ultra wide lenses."

Interesting! I'll post a number of TIFFs on this subject on Monday to see what impact this has. I also wonder, if there is machining issues especially at these small thresholds, what variations in copies there are.
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rainer_v

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2014, 02:15:20 pm »

A7r seems to be a fantastic camera indeed and a breakthrough as it's short flange distance allows for adapters into various lens systems, such as Canon's excellent TS-E II lenses (I own the TS-E 24 II).

However, there are issues with adapter quality (manufacturing precision, reflections), so I'd wait to buy into it until we see better quality adapters on the market, which seems to be coming.

From my point of view the key advantage over D800e the A7r has is the ability to use Canon glass (and other manufacturers), but with this resolution capability it requires top quality adapters.

the advantage compared to the d800e is that it can use nearly ALL glass, not just canon and nikon and that it has a very good live view and that it is lo weight .
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Telecaster

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2014, 04:11:11 pm »

Quick question - are you experiencing shutter vibration when the camera is on a tripod, or is it primarily shooting handheld?

This is handheld. What little I've done on a tripod (just playing really) has been with the camera attached to a large carbon fiber Vanguard and my heavier metal Gitzo using short-ish lenses (I'm not interested in anything longer than 100mm or so with this camera) so I haven't seen any of the "shutter shock" stuff that has had some folks up in arms. The vibration is partly to do with the shutter—it's a bit juddery at slower handheld speeds—and partly to do with a lack of adequate handholding mass. But upping the shutter speed takes care of it.

-Dave-
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Graham Clark

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2014, 04:13:10 pm »

This is handheld. What little I've done on a tripod (just playing really) has been with the camera attached to a large carbon fiber Vanguard and my heavier metal Gitzo using short-ish lenses (I'm not interested in anything longer than 100mm or so with this camera) so I haven't seen any of the "shutter shock" stuff that has had some folks up in arms. The vibration is partly to do with the shutter—it's a bit juddery at slower handheld speeds—and partly to do with a lack of adequate handholding mass. But upping the shutter speed takes care of it.

-Dave-

interesting! looking forward to really getting this tested out.

thanks for your response!
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Telecaster

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2014, 04:44:01 pm »

However, there are issues with adapter quality (manufacturing precision, reflections), so I'd wait to buy into it until we see better quality adapters on the market, which seems to be coming.

This has been a non-issue so far with my (Novoflex) adapters for Y/C Zeiss, Nikon F and Pentax K. I'm using lenses I'm very familiar with...on the Sony they behave as they do on their native cameras.

This past weekend my friend Bruce & I did some brief pic taking outside in the Arctic-like weather we've recently been suffering through. Bruce had a borrowed Leica M240 & 28/2 Summicron while I had the A7r and a Pentax M-series 28/2.8 that I've owned for ages. No surprise to either of us, the Sony/Pentax duo outresolved the Leica...though admittedly not by much, and it required some measurbating to ferret out. Much to our surprise, though, we also found the Sony/Pentax was more consistent across the frame (at the lens' f/9.5 optimum) and more subtle tonally. This was evident in 4096x2732 downsamples too. I'm sold on this point: Erik is right, more photosites are cool! BTW, the Pentax lens currently goes for around US $100 used and isn't even considered the best version.   :)

-Dave-
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 04:54:50 pm by Telecaster »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2014, 08:47:29 pm »

Hi,

I am using a program called Imatest. It can measure MTF of lens+sensor using a very simple slanted edge target. I used to buy my for 99$US in something called Studio version, but I don't know the price. There is another program using the same methods.

MTF results are very much dependent on sharpening.

If I have time (and energy) I will try to to post some more info end of this week.

Best regards
Erik





Awesome site, tons of great information.

Taking all this into consideration how would you measure the resolving power of the lens against a respective sensor?
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David Campbell

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2014, 09:00:44 pm »

I have purchased a A7R and find it a good compact camera with some limitations.

I use the metabones EF mkIII adapter and after covering the interior with felt, I have no issues with reflections.
That being said, I did not shoot much with it before covering with felt.
Check here for a template I made from Marc Aurel's sketch to make the felt process easier,

My experience so far is that with quality lenses, such as the TSE24II or CZ55/1.8, I am achieving an high level of detail and low shadow noise that was simply not achievable with my current camera bodies (5D3, 6D). Ofcourse the detail is not the same as the IQ180 I used to own, but at the price and dynamic range that exceeds the IQ180, it is a very good compromise. I can stitch easily to generate MF resolutions.

I have not had issues with shutter vibration so far, this may be chance or my technique/equipment are minimizing the effect. I have been shooting up to 100mm lenses but mounting the body to the tripod, not using the adapter foot or lens plates. Hand held I have tack sharp images with the EF300/2.8IS, even below 1/300th of a second. The large lens mass and holding technique probably reduces any blur.

Some of the limitations I have found are:
- There is no live RGB histogram like on my canon bodies. I have not shot enough to know how much headroom I have before clipping channels with the zebras. The luminosity histogram is a copy of the green channel. So To confirm I have not clipped a blue or red channel, I have to check the image playback RGB histogram.
- High ISO quality is not that great compared to my 6D. There is detail smearing. This is not a big deal for me as I am 90% of the time a base ISO shooter.
- Using the camera on the tripod, it is so small that when trying to adjust settings, the viewfinder detection will trigger the LCD display to turn off. I can set the camera to turn off the viewfinder, but I can not set this function as a custom function. I can with disabling the LCD monitor. Annoying I can not toggle it with a custom programmed button. (if anyone knows how to, please let me know)

For me, it is a great compact camera for landscape use with my current canon lenses with out having to buy a D800 + Nikon Glass.
It takes up barely any room in my pack when I am using the 5D3 for anything that I need auto-focus for and the 6D I use for any astro-long exposure stuff.

Hope this aids people with there decisions.
Cheers
Dave

Graham Clark

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2014, 09:05:55 pm »

I have purchased a A7R and find it a good compact camera with some limitations.

I use the metabones EF mkIII adapter and after covering the interior with felt, I have no issues with reflections.
That being said, I did not shoot much with it before covering with felt.
Check here for a template I made from Marc Aurel's sketch to make the felt process easier,

My experience so far is that with quality lenses, such as the TSE24II or CZ55/1.8, I am achieving an high level of detail and low shadow noise that was simply not achievable with my current camera bodies (5D3, 6D). Ofcourse the detail is not the same as the IQ180 I used to own, but at the price and dynamic range that exceeds the IQ180, it is a very good compromise. I can stitch easily to generate MF resolutions.

I have not had issues with shutter vibration so far, this may be chance or my technique/equipment are minimizing the effect. I have been shooting up to 100mm lenses but mounting the body to the tripod, not using the adapter foot or lens plates. Hand held I have tack sharp images with the EF300/2.8IS, even below 1/300th of a second. The large lens mass and holding technique probably reduces any blur.

Some of the limitations I have found are:
- There is no live RGB histogram like on my canon bodies. I have not shot enough to know how much headroom I have before clipping channels with the zebras. The luminosity histogram is a copy of the green channel. So To confirm I have not clipped a blue or red channel, I have to check the image playback RGB histogram.
- High ISO quality is not that great compared to my 6D. There is detail smearing. This is not a big deal for me as I am 90% of the time a base ISO shooter.
- Using the camera on the tripod, it is so small that when trying to adjust settings, the viewfinder detection will trigger the LCD display to turn off. I can set the camera to turn off the viewfinder, but I can not set this function as a custom function. I can with disabling the LCD monitor. Annoying I can not toggle it with a custom programmed button. (if anyone knows how to, please let me know)

For me, it is a great compact camera for landscape use with my current canon lenses with out having to buy a D800 + Nikon Glass.
It takes up barely any room in my pack when I am using the 5D3 for anything that I need auto-focus for and the 6D I use for any astro-long exposure stuff.

Hope this aids people with there decisions.
Cheers
Dave

Hey Dave,

Awesome insight!

Question regarding internal reflections - do you think that affects non TSE lenses? A TSE directs light in a non-linear path, thereby hitting the edges of the adapter, whereas a non-TSE lens wouldn't do this, right?

Lack of RGB is interesting!

One of the features I use on my 5D3 and 6D the most is Live View when composing with ND filters, without simulation mode. The 6D compensates for low light and adjusts the ISO upwards to compose, and even though I've never shot on H1 and H2, I find that these are incredibly useful for the purposes of composing. Without those high ISOs and being locked into Live View without them, it seems that the A7R has a downside here.

Do you have a shutter release? Another downside in my view is the lack of an intervalometer : (
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David Campbell

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2014, 09:35:28 pm »

Graham,

Regarding the reflections, it could be possible to get them with non TSE lenses but I have covered the sides where the mirror box would normally be as well. The canon cameras do not have felt but they do have a non-reflective coating on the inside of the mirror box so it could be an issue. Just spend the hour, covering the adapter with felt :) See marc's post where the template I made is.

There is a custom function called "shot preview" or something like that. It is different to the aperture preview from as much as I can tell as it will give you a simulated preview of the shot.
I have not found a need for it yet as when making changes or stopping the lenses down with the aperture preview, the liveview compensates like my canon cameras do.

In terms of remotes, I bought the Sony RMVPR1 video remote.
The record button triggers video and the on-off mode swtich puts the camera into a sleep mode and it wakes up from quickly as compared to turning the camera off/on.
The W-T buttons do not provide any useful function but they do try to communicate with the camera. I get a not compatible with RAW quality type message and if I switch the camera to JPG mode, I get another non compatible message about the lens type, even with the native CZ55/1.8 lens. Part of me was hoping I could either change focus or exposure compensation with the remote.
The only down side is that the connector sticks straight out of the camera for about an inch. It means I have to slide the RRS L-Plate to accommodate for portrait orientation shots. I prefer the canon style 90deg connector.

There is a smart phone app that gives intervalometer functionality but when using the smart phone app as a normal remote (before my wired remote arrived) the LCD monitor would turn off and I would not get any histogram on the phone, even reviewing the image. So I ended up using the timer function which made it fun predicting when waves would be in the right spot of the frame.

Cheers
Dave

Graham Clark

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2014, 09:39:20 pm »

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the response!

I'll certainly cover the interior as was previously posted, but I'm really interested to do a before and after without TSE lenses to see the effect this has on contrast. Thanks for the PDF you created, huge help.

As for the remote application on your phone, does it have a intervalometer setting or is it designed for time-lapse?

Graham
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Graham Clark

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2014, 09:40:20 pm »

Graham,

Regarding the reflections, it could be possible to get them with non TSE lenses but I have covered the sides where the mirror box would normally be as well. The canon cameras do not have felt but they do have a non-reflective coating on the inside of the mirror box so it could be an issue. Just spend the hour, covering the adapter with felt :) See marc's post where the template I made is.

There is a custom function called "shot preview" or something like that. It is different to the aperture preview from as much as I can tell as it will give you a simulated preview of the shot.
I have not found a need for it yet as when making changes or stopping the lenses down with the aperture preview, the liveview compensates like my canon cameras do.

In terms of remotes, I bought the Sony RMVPR1 video remote.
The record button triggers video and the on-off mode swtich puts the camera into a sleep mode and it wakes up from quickly as compared to turning the camera off/on.
The W-T buttons do not provide any useful function but they do try to communicate with the camera. I get a not compatible with RAW quality type message and if I switch the camera to JPG mode, I get another non compatible message about the lens type, even with the native CZ55/1.8 lens. Part of me was hoping I could either change focus or exposure compensation with the remote.
The only down side is that the connector sticks straight out of the camera for about an inch. It means I have to slide the RRS L-Plate to accommodate for portrait orientation shots. I prefer the canon style 90deg connector.

There is a smart phone app that gives intervalometer functionality but when using the smart phone app as a normal remote (before my wired remote arrived) the LCD monitor would turn off and I would not get any histogram on the phone, even reviewing the image. So I ended up using the timer function which made it fun predicting when waves would be in the right spot of the frame.

Cheers
Dave

Also, aside from the non-L shaped connector do you think the Sony remote you bought is worth $70 or so?

Graham
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tsjanik

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2014, 09:47:37 pm »

....................while I had the A7r and a Pentax M-series 28/2.8 that I've owned for ages. No surprise to either of us, the Sony/Pentax duo outresolved the Leica................. the Pentax lens currently goes for around US $100 used and isn't even considered the best version.   :)

-Dave-

Very interesting to hear this Dave; I have a closet of old Pentax M lenses (including the 28mm f/3.5), I would love to use them at their designed angle of view. I might wait awhile and see if Pentax uses this sensor, if not, maybe the Sony.

Tom
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David Campbell

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2014, 11:25:41 pm »

Graham,

No problems on the quick responses, I am off work today as I gave myself concussion mt. biking last night so I have to take it easy.

I have only used a wired remotes on any of my cameras.
The Sony one I mentioned is pretty good quality. You would not want to drop it in water as it does not appear to be well sealed but other brand remotes are not either.
The cable is quite thin and is quite stiff near the strain relief of the connector. It could fail with repeated bending right at that point. I had this happen to my Canon TC80 intervelometer.

I am in Australia and Sony AU does not stock that remote, so I had to buy it from BH photo so paid more for it than I would have liked. I just bundled it with a bunch of other small stuff to make the most of the shipping. Even still, it was cheaper than it would be if they start selling it here.
I still think it was a good buy for the on/off wake up function. Saves my batteries if I am waiting for the light to be just right when getting to a location too early.
I have not managed to work out yet if I can use the movie button as a custom function. If so I wonder if I can trigger it by the REC button on the remote. I probably should read the manual!

There is a IR remote and have seen a demo indoors of the person using it without pointing it at the camera, but for landscape use, I did not want to take the risk of it not working and or batteries going flat.

The Sony phone apps are under a name of PlayMemories and can be found here.
There is a timelapse app, but I have not purchased it.
I have only used the free remote app shortly until I worked out it would not suit my shooting style.
On a plus note though, focus, liveview update and image review was quick with the phone. I was surprised. It just did not give me the histogram as mentioned above.

Cheers
David

Manoli

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2014, 06:36:59 am »

(1)
- High ISO quality is not that great compared to my 6D. There is detail smearing. This is not a big deal for me as I am 90% of the time a base ISO shooter.
(2)
- Using the camera on the tripod, it is so small that when trying to adjust settings, the viewfinder detection will trigger the LCD display to turn off. I can set the camera to turn off the viewfinder, but I can not set this function as a custom function. I can with disabling the LCD monitor. Annoying I can not toggle it with a custom programmed button. (if anyone knows how to, please let me know)

(1)
How high is 'high' ? Are you using jpeg and have you turned High ISO NR off ? Use RAW.
(2)
A work around is to set the camera to return to the last used menu item and you can then toggle the LCD at will.
Settings > P3 > Finder/Monitor
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Manoli

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2014, 06:50:18 am »

There is an excellent intervalometer included in the Remote Control App - the downside is that you've got to shoot tethered. Considering the limited battery life - you probably would anyway.
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chez

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2014, 07:08:48 am »

A7r seems to be a fantastic camera indeed and a breakthrough as it's short flange distance allows for adapters into various lens systems, such as Canon's excellent TS-E II lenses (I own the TS-E 24 II).

However, there are issues with adapter quality (manufacturing precision, reflections), so I'd wait to buy into it until we see better quality adapters on the market, which seems to be coming.

From my point of view the key advantage over D800e the A7r has is the ability to use Canon glass (and other manufacturers), but with this resolution capability it requires top quality adapters.

Not only does it allow different glass, but manually focusing this glass is much nicer with the A7R than trying to manually focus with a D800.
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Graham Clark

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2014, 12:47:22 pm »

There is an excellent intervalometer included in the Remote Control App - the downside is that you've got to shoot tethered. Considering the limited battery life - you probably would anyway.

Interesting, I thought there was no intervalometer functionality in the remote.  Thanks!
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2014, 02:36:56 pm »

I'm seeing very little difference when printing up to 40x60 between the 5D1, 5D2, 5D3, 6D and D800e. Therefore I perceive the performance more theoretical and the 6D more practical from a size / weight perspective.

Really?  I have no images from a 5d1 I would ever print that large ... they might look OK to some, but definitely fall apart to much for me.  There might be a few from the 5d2, but  they are unique with no real detail.  the d800e files even at 24x36 are visually superior, especially those taken with the Zeiss 50 and 100mm.

I haven’t tested that large with my a7r yet, but feel with good technique it will be equal to my d800e.
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Manoli

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Re: Why I Bought the a7R
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2014, 03:43:46 pm »

Interesting, I thought there was no intervalometer functionality in the remote.  Thanks!

Graham, just to be clear , the Remote Control App is PC/MAC based. The confusion I think comes from other posts that are referring to a smartphone app (which I know zero about) and which may carry a similar name.

FYI, Sony have recently released an updated version of their 'Lens Correction App', which supports the A7. This app costs extra and needs to be downloaded onto the camera. Useful for all adapted lenses.
www.playmemoriescameraapps.com/portal/
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