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Author Topic: Another 4900 horror story  (Read 55555 times)

Roger_Breton

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2014, 04:58:58 pm »

Update 4

Been conducting additional readings and found a site where many reported using nail remover as a cleaning fluid?
Others were reporting blowing compressed air, carefully, off a bottle of Dust-Off, to clean the head? With good results.

So, having nothing to lose, I gave both of these "techniques" a try.
And I took a hi-res picture of the head after doing injecting nail polish and blowing air.

Here is a link to a high-res 19 meg RGB TIFF image,  showing the face of the head with rows of tiny dots of fluid.
http://sdrv.ms/1dk3Ve9
(I could not get the server to accept a low-res version of the file)

This, to me, suggests that the head is not "physically blocked" by dry ink.

Some member has suggested in this thread that, having originally circulated 95% alcool and Windex through the head, that this  effectively "killed" it. But in my research, I have not come accross a comment to sustain this view? Other than a reply by John Cone :

I would not have recommended alcohol because of the amount it dries, nor windex because it contains too much ammonia.
At this point - your head is not functioning and it does not sound like a clog.
I think it may be damaged beyond PiezoFlush to repair.


My hypothesis today is still that the vacuum pump failed? But I won't know until I dismantle the right side of the printer to get to the pump cap assembly.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 05:05:55 pm by Roger_Breton »
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #101 on: February 02, 2014, 05:06:33 pm »

The blockages might be where you can't see them.

It is very hard to know for sure at this point whether you have done irreparable damage to the head. However, unless you are technically trained/qualified to do so, my instinct would be that the more you mess around in it, the higher the risk of causing real damage.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Roger_Breton

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #102 on: February 02, 2014, 05:07:54 pm »

Thank's Mike. I am considering buying the AIS fluid.
Worth the try.
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shadowblade

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #103 on: February 02, 2014, 08:13:12 pm »

Thanks for clarifying - I see what you mean now.

Even in that context, there are other factors that would matter very much as well - for example, dithering and dot lay-down technologies, droplet size control, native resolution........

No doubt. But I can't see any of those going backwards in any printer...
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #104 on: February 02, 2014, 08:57:07 pm »

I can. Variance of specs may depend on what the printer is designed for.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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BrianWJH

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #105 on: February 02, 2014, 09:32:37 pm »

Update 4

Been conducting additional readings and found a site where many reported using nail remover as a cleaning fluid?


Nail polish remover is mostly acetone, a very aggressive solvent; I wouldn't use it as it may damage the head by dissolving internal epoxies or cements that hold the structure together.

It also contains oil.

If you have used it then I would immediately flush any remaining acetone using deionised water.


Quote
This, to me, suggests that the head is not "physically blocked" by dry ink.


This was evident when I asked if deionised water passed through the head and you said it did.



Quote
My hypothesis today is still that the vacuum pump failed? But I won't know until I dismantle the right side of the printer to get to the pump cap assembly.


The only vacuum I'm aware of is vacuum pressure in the capping station to suck ink through the printhead into the waste ink tank during cleaning and power off.

When printing, the ink carts are pressurized via the pressure pump which is a positive pressure not a negative pressure.

As I said previously, unless you have disassembled components in the pressure pump assembly or associated pressurizing tubes running to the ink cartridge bays then it's unlikely this is your problem.

Did you find any air in the ink lines?



Brian.
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davidh202

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #106 on: February 02, 2014, 11:28:53 pm »

Roger,
you are a glutton for punishment!

we went through all this for two years with the infamous 7900 thread, and went around in circles, only to find out nothing Eric did would restore a head to working order, and finally gave up.
David
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #107 on: February 03, 2014, 07:00:13 am »

Roger,
you are a glutton for punishment!

we went through all this for two years with the infamous 7900 thread, and went around in circles, only to find out nothing Eric did would restore a head to working order, and finally gave up.
David

Yes, that is/was indeed the case. I am pretty much convinced that only a small number of people in Epson know the true causes of these periodic episodes. Epson could do the public and themselves a substantial service by issuing a bulletin first exposing what percentage of all printers sold in the model line have experienced these apparently unrecoverable ink delivery issues (from what I hear it is extremely low), explaining what the problems REALLY are likely to be under the more usual stress scenarios and indicate whether they can be resolved and if so - how. Because of all the negative publicity they have received in numerous threads and several forums, they have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain in terms of PR and future trouble avoidance by doing this, but I have come to appreciate it is unlikely their lawyers will advise them to say anything - especially in the sue-crazy USA where publication of such evidence could contribute to the risk of class actions etc.

Under the circumstances I think all this amateur research is (potentially expensive) entertainment and perhaps even a bit educational for those doing it, but likely a waste of time in respect of usable results. I would like to be proven wrong, so Roger should keep posting his updates as the tinkering proceeds.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark F

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #108 on: February 03, 2014, 12:26:30 pm »


I really think keeping the humidity above 40% (40-60% recommended by Epson) is the key.  Mine is kept between 45 and 50 most days - sometimes drops to 38-40 by the end of the weekend when I'm not in to fill the humidifier.   This is the one I purchased: http://www.sears.ca/product/kenmore-md-454-litre-digital-humidifier/642-000017871-758_3_29982OC

Some time back I read a post on this forum (but not this thread) that the poster had raised the humidity and solved his clogged head issue by simply keeping a small glass of water in the printer during periods of non-use. This did not work for me and one or more heads clogged during periods of non-use. I never measured the humidity under the closed top of my 4880 but the water did evaporate so I assume the humidity level was at least 40% in that enclosed area. I'm not a techie but it seems after reading this and the prior 7900 thread that this whole thing is hit or miss. Using Windex or another solution works for some but not for others. The same for special software or humidity control. About the only sure thing seems to be frequent (read daily) printing. Or maybe a special incantation on the full moon?
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #109 on: February 03, 2014, 12:32:19 pm »

Actually, Epson's specs for humidity is a range of 20% to 80% for Print Quality Guarantee. Mine is never less than 20%. If I am printing every other day or so the printer works well. If I leave it for a week or more, it needs cleaning. I have come to the conclusion that frequent use is the key issue.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Mark F

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #110 on: February 03, 2014, 12:50:10 pm »

Actually, Epson's specs for humidity is a range of 20% to 80% for Print Quality Guarantee. Mine is never less than 20%. If I am printing every other day or so the printer works well. If I leave it for a week or more, it needs cleaning. I have come to the conclusion that frequent use is the key issue.

I just checked my 4880 manual, which states: "20-80% RH, 40 to 60% RH for optimum print quality, and for optimal operation humidity should be between 35 and 45% RH". I do not know if there are different  specs for different printers.

it has been my experience that frequent use means a full color print. I print at least a test pattern daily, the wavy line version, but that did not work either. One day there is always a clog but perhaps the daily test pattern print decreases the frequency?
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Mark

Mark D Segal

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #111 on: February 03, 2014, 01:28:50 pm »

Printing the test pattern is not sufficient.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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davidh202

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #112 on: February 04, 2014, 09:09:10 pm »

I actually believe that recommended humidity levels are more likely related to proper hydration of the printing papers and their reception to absorb ink, rather than it's affect on the ink  which essentially is in a completely sealed environment until it is actually discharged from the nozzles. There  may be some affect to help the ink from drying the surface plate of the head and capping station but would have no other impact on the rest of the ink delivery system from the carts to the outer surface of the nozzles. From all accounts in  many cases the people who are actually lucky enough to clear actual "clogs" ( a few missing nozzles), hydration appears to work because it is head surface related.This is what the AIS fluids work on.
O
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hugowolf

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #113 on: February 04, 2014, 09:34:24 pm »

So far, after buying a humidifier and keeping the humidity levels between 40 and 45%, I haven’t had a single line drop out. Prior to that, during the winter months here in Virginia, I could have lines drop out between prints. Full color, Granger charts, nozzle check prints, it didn’t matter.

I am at the moment, hopeful; and wishing I had gone with humidity control earlier. I am almost to the level of trust I have with the 3880. It has still been too short a time for me to draw reliable conclusions.

Brian A
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Mike Guilbault

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #114 on: February 04, 2014, 10:15:00 pm »

What did I tell ya! ;) 

I had read 40-60% somewhere (manual I believe) so I've been keeping the room between 45-50%.  Fired up the 9900 today - no printing, not even turned on in 4-5 days - perfect nozzle check and print on canvas was beautiful. Without the humidifier, the RH is around 25-30% (central Ontario -5 to -30 celsius over the last month).  Maybe I'll try dropping it to 40-45% and see what happens - but then again, it's working so don't want to fool with it too much.
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Mike Guilbault

hugowolf

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #115 on: February 04, 2014, 10:31:32 pm »

This winter has been much worse than last: outside humidity at 28-33%. Last winter I managed to keep the indoor humidity above 30% most of the time, but his year I would sometimes come in on Mondays to 18% rel. I’d raise the humidity to over 30% before a nozzle check print, but I was frequently seeing dropped lines in several colors.

The new 5 USgal humidifier keeps things going throughout the weekend without a problem so far. We have had temps below -15ºC more than once this year.

I prefer the paper at or below 40%, but the printer seems to prefer it more moist. 40-45% is my compromise.

Brian A
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #116 on: February 05, 2014, 08:48:20 am »

One thing to be careful of with adding humidity to home in cold climates is mold growth.  We have a whole house humidfier system built into our furnace and when temperatures drop below -10C excess humidity can cause mold spores to appear on edges of walls and windows if too much moisture condenses because of the cold ambient temperature within the room.  We routinely keep our house heated at 20C during the day and dropping it down 17C at night.  During the recent very cold weather I see lots of moisture condensation along the inside of window seams (and yes, they are double paned windows).  Just something to look out for.
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Mike Guilbault

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #117 on: February 05, 2014, 03:32:22 pm »

I do my printing at the studio, but at home it's around 30-35% and that's where I coat my canvases and stretch.
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Mike Guilbault

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #118 on: February 05, 2014, 04:30:23 pm »

What did I tell ya! ;) 

I had read 40-60% somewhere (manual I believe) so I've been keeping the room between 45-50%.  Fired up the 9900 today - no printing, not even turned on in 4-5 days - perfect nozzle check and print on canvas was beautiful. Without the humidifier, the RH is around 25-30% (central Ontario -5 to -30 celsius over the last month).  Maybe I'll try dropping it to 40-45% and see what happens - but then again, it's working so don't want to fool with it too much.


Actually, most inexpensive hygrometers don't measure low RH very well and err significantly on the higher side with their readings. A quick check with a psychometric chart or calculator for a -10 degree C outdoor air temperature assuming that this air is also at the dew point temperature (meaning 100%RH maximum moisture content in that outdoor air) returns a 12%RH calculated value when that air is then sucked indoors by your furnace and subsequently heated to a reasonable indoor temperature of 20 degrees C. If that outdoor air is -20C, now you get to 5% RH indoors once heated to human comfort levels.

Without additional moisture being added by the HVAC system these RH values are typically the kind of indoor RH home owners will encounter routinely in a cold northern wintertime climate like Ontario. Very dry conditions indeed. Centrally located whole house humidifiers can pick that RH up to about 20%, but trying to go much beyond that and you will eventually suffer expensive building damage. You may even notice water condensing indoors on the window sills. The extra moisture pumped into the building can also condense inside cold exterior walls where you won't notice, especially around the window casements that aren't always perfectly insulated.

Bottom line: If you want to boost your Epson printer"s RH conditions up to 40% or 50%RH and you live in a cold wintertime climate, you will need to consider tenting the machine or making sure your portable humidifier is being used only in a centrally located room with no walls or windows adjoining the exterior above-ground walls.  Many modern home floor plans don't have such a room unless perhaps in a finished basement. Just a heads up for those folks living in bitter cold climates and contemplating adding additional moisture around their printers. You may want to consult with an HVAC company to make sure how to do it safely.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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Mike Guilbault

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Re: Another 4900 horror story
« Reply #119 on: February 05, 2014, 11:02:52 pm »

Good points Mark.  Fortunately, my printer room is in the centre of a commercial 3 storey building (bottom floor). I'm going to dial it back a bit anyway and see how it works... maybe keep it at around 35-40%.
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Mike Guilbault
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