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Author Topic: Serious illegal activity by some photo workshops -- be aware, and forewarned  (Read 87128 times)

alan a

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This posting concerns serious illegal activity by some photo workshops — activity that also undermines the maintenance of federal BLM and National Park lands.  And you should be aware that if you participate in such a workshop, it can be shut down by the BLM or Park Service. So I apologize for the length, but the issues discussed below are of critical importance for anyone who pays for workshops in the western United States.

About one year ago, I participated in a photo workshop, in a western state, that was organized and guided by at least one nationally recognized photographer. At the time I was considering participating in a follow-up workshop, in the same state, run by the same individual and company. When I mentioned this photo workshop to a hiking guide service in that local area, the local hiking guide service looked up the name of the photo workshop on the BLM web site that lists permit holders, and said that the organizer did not have a permit and was operating illegally. The local guide service, without my permission, reported that photo workshop to the BLM for operating without a permit.  I then informed the photo workshop organizer, fearing that I had caused him a problem.  The photo workshop organizer told me that the BLM was fully aware of his workshop and its activities. I ultimately did not sign up for the particular workshop, and instead pursued my own photography in the same area and at the same time, and ran across the workshop several times on BLM lands.

Upon my return home, I decided to follow up, as the entire episode was quite troubling.  I called the BLM office and spoke to the BLM official responsible for permits. He was aware of this photo workshop, because due to the call from the local hiking guide service, the organizer of the photo workshop had been forced to call the BLM. As a result, the photo workshop organizer -- who did not have a permit -- had been instructed by the BLM to stay off of gravel roads and BLM lands, and limit any activities to asphalt highways. The BLM asked me to document in an email that I had in fact seen the workshop in question on precisely such lands, in direct violation of BLM instructions, which I did.  I was happy to do so, for the key part of this story, at least for me, was to learn from the BLM, after the fact, that the workshop did NOT have a permit, and the workshop organizer's emphatic assertion that the BLM was aware of the workshop, and approved of its activities, was simply not true. For the record, I heard anecdotally that the photo workshop and company in question does have a permit this year, at least for that specific part of that western state, but I haven’t checked, as I will not do business with that company in any event.

When I discussed this episode with other photo guide services, I learned that this is a serious problem with other photo workshops, and my experience was not an isolated case. BLM and National Park Service permits are not cheap, and some photo workshops evade the requirements of federal law and operate illegally.  It should be noted that these are not small-time or unknown photo workshops.  The other local photo guides cited other really big names who allegedly operate without permits.  I can report that the local guide services, including photo guides, told me that it is a serious issue, and not just an isolated problem of only a few companies.

These illegal activities by some photo workshops are a serious problem because:

(1)  The local BLM and National Park Service offices use permit fees to directly support their operations. In a period of severe federal budget cutbacks, these permit fees are a critical source of income to support the activities of the BLM and the National Park Service with regard to protecting the very federal lands that we, landscape photographers, all enjoy.

When photo workshops evade and violate the requirements of federal and state law, and do not obtain permits, they are not helping to support and maintain federal lands, but in fact are doing exactly the opposite.

(2)  The photo workshop operators who failed to get permits are also working to the direct economic disadvantage and loss of the legitimate workshops and guide services that do obtain permits. A BLM permit for a professional guide service or workshop operator is not cheap, and is actually fairly expensive. It is an expensive permit for professional operators.  That is why the rogue and illegal operators fail to obtain permits. When any of us, as landscape photographers, participate in workshops without permits, we are simply rewarding illegal activity, and failing to support legitimate guide services and photo workshops that have purchased all necessary BLM or Park service permits.

(3)  The BLM and the National Park Service can shut down any photo workshop that they find on their lands, and which do not have the necessary and required permits. I heard anecdotally that one of the biggest names in the business is notorious for not having permits, and in one of our most prestigious national parks, the Park service is actively looking for him, or least was as of one year ago. So if you sign up for a workshop that does not have the necessary permits, you run the risk that your workshop could be shut down in the middle of your visit, due to the illegal behavior of the organizer.

(4)  My understanding is that the BLM requires, as a condition for obtaining a permit, that organizers show proof of liability insurance. That strongly suggests that photo workshops that fail to have permits might also not have liability insurance. Since none of us, the customers of such workshops, can ever know if the workshop actually has liability insurance, at least determining that they have the necessary permits would be a good first step to document that the workshop or guide service is a professional operation.

(5) My experience demonstrated that it is not sufficient to ask a workshop or guide service if they have permits. I did ask, and I was deliberately misled by the organizer, as I described above.

(6) What that underscores, unfortunately, is that it is our responsibility – the customers who pay for the workshops – to verify that the workshop and guide service has all necessary permits. However, it is not that difficult to do so, since every local BLM area office lists permit holders on their website. If a photo operator says they have a permit, but they are not listed on the website, then call the local or Park service or BLM office and ask.

If such a phone call causes a problem for any illegal photo workshop operating without a permit, so be it. They deserve it.  You will actually be doing a favor to the suckers who signed up for the workshop, as a call from the BLM to the photo workshop might result in its advance cancellation.  Better to have that outcome, than for the photographers to fly to a western location, only to have their workshop shut down.  

(7) I will forward the link of this posting to the BLM office that I discussed this matter with one year ago. I will encourage that office to zealously prosecute any photo workshop or guide service that fails to obtain permits and is operating illegally. I will also encourage that BLM office to share the link to this posting, and my message, with other BLM offices in the Western United States.  

I believe that they will be simply delighted to do so.

8 -- When rogue photo workshops start getting shut down for illegal activities, the news will spread rapidly on websites such as this. That is ultimately what will force the illegal operators to fully obtain all necessary permits. Because the news will spread as to which photo workshops have permits, versus those that do not.

In closing, permit fees are now an essential part of the operations of the BLM and the National Park Service. They are an increasingly critical source of financial support to maintain federal lands due to federal budget cutbacks. We, the community of landscape photographers, who care about the preservation of these lands, should only do business with guide services and photo workshops that have all necessary permits and are in full compliance with federal and state law.

Unfortunately, it is up to us, based on my experience, to verify that workshops and guidance services have the necessary permits. But that is easy enough to verify – you need only look on the appropriate website, or simply call the local BLM or Park Service office.

I will have no sympathy if you are in middle of a workshop that is shut down by the BLM or Park Service because the company or organizer failed to obtain permits.

Particularly not if you read this posting.

So do the right thing — and support only legitimate workshops and operators who are in full compliance with state and federal law, including permit requirements.  Check the BLM or Park Service web sites that list permit holders, and if the workshop is not listed, call the local BLM or Park Service office and ask.

P.S.  On an entirely unrelated point, I have participated in workshops where the so-called experts disappear after 15 minutes and go off and do their own photography and ignore the workshop participants for hours at a time. If you want to sign up for a workshop, ask your fellow photographers how it is run.  Paying a really big name to do his own photography at your expense is a waste of your money IMHO.  This is another problem with many workshops.  But maybe I am in a minority in my view that the instructors should actually INSTRUCT and not not just go off and do their own photography, leaving the participants to wander around aimlessly.  That is another problem with some so-called workshops, but many photographers seem to be entirely OK with that practice, even though they paid thousands of dollars for the workshop.  It only proves that PT Barnum was right.  You have to be a sucker to pay a big name photographer to ignore you, during his own workshop, and to do his own photography at your expense.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 01:35:12 am by alan a »
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JohnBrew

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Good for you.

kaelaria

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I agree 100% but this would be MUCH more helpful with names.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Jesus, man, get off that high horse!

alan a

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I agree 100% but this would be MUCH more helpful with names.

Names are not necessary, and would simply result in a debate between the workshop in question and me -- along with the local guide service and the BLM -- as explained in my original posting, and more than a year later.  (I meant to post this long ago, but just never got around to it.)  And if that photo tour operator now has a permit, as a result of being caught without a permit one year ago, then that issue has been resolved -- at least in the case of that one photo workshop organizer.

My purpose in starting my posting with my own story was to illustrate the point that just because a tour operator or photo workshop operator CLAIMS to have a permit does not mean that they actually have one.  Photographers who are paying thousands of dollars for a tour, and flying half way across the country to attend, need to take enough personal initiative to check the BLM web site for that area, or call the BLM or Park Service and confirm that the operator does, in fact, have a permit.

My purpose in posting was not to cause a debate about those specific events one year ago.  It was to use my own experience, and what I subsequently learned, to focus attention on any photo workshop or photo travel group that is operating on federal lands without a permit.  I suspect that the practice of many workshops is to NOT get a permit due to the expense involved -- based on the reports I heard in one specific region that is popular with landscape photographers.  Frankly, for anyone attending a workshop on federal land, you should assume the negative -- that the operator does NOT have a permit -- until you have verified that the operator does, in fact, have a permit.    

BTW, this problem, of violating the law and not having permits, is most likely to happen with photo workshop and tour operators who fly into a region from some other part of the country, along with their paying clients.  It is less likely to happen with a local photo tour operator in a given region, because the BLM and Park Service know what any local operator is doing.  My observation was that the local guides were very careful to only operate in the BLM region where they had a permit, because this is their full time job, and if they lost their permits, they would be out of business. That is not to say that every photo tour operator who flies into an area, from another state, does not have a permit -- but it is to suggest that the likelihood of a problem is greater for workshops where the business address is out-of-state and not in that region, and less likely with local operators.  However, this distinction is irrelevant to the BLM.  The BLM is an equal opportunity enforcer.  If you are a for-profit tour or workshop operator, and go on BLM lands, you need a BLM permit -- regardless of where you came from.  The Park Service (and possibly Forest Service as well) would have the same perspective.

In the case of the BLM, at least for that region, you look at the list "approved" outfitters and guides -- they are the companies that have complied with all BLM requirements and have permits.  But the list can always be out of date, so you may still need to call to verify whether the workshop you are planning on attending has a permit, or whether a permit is required.  (My understanding, based on talking with the BLM, is that any for-profit workshop or guide that is operating on BLM lands is required to have a permit and to meet all other BLM requirements for such a permit.  And for photographers from the east, if your workshop is outside of an urban area in the west, there is a good chance it is on BLM, Forest Service, or Park Service lands.)

As for the comment that I am on a "high horse" -- do you condone photo tours that violate federal law?  Indeed, these so-called "nature" and "landscape" photo tours violate federal law and regulations on the very lands that we all claim to care about.  There is a huge amount of hypocrisy involved here.  The photo tour I was involved with has statements on their web site about protecting the environment and caring about the landscapes we all photograph -- even while they violated federal regulations and failed to obtain permits.  And where do the revenues from those permits go -- to maintain those very lands.  The hypocrisy was appalling.  

And if you do think I am on a high horse, well, consider yourself warned.  The BLM can -- and has -- shut down tours and operations without permits.  Maybe Slobodan will be unlucky enough to be on such a photo tour, only to have it shut down half way through.  My high horse will look far different from that rather low vantage point.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 01:32:16 am by alan a »
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sierraman

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Skip the "photo tours" and go out on your own. Besides, who wants to have the same shot as the other 20 people on the tour.  :)
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alan a

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I agree with that in the case of many so-called workshops.  Read the P.S. on the bottom of original posting.  
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 11:54:24 pm by alan a »
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Ligament

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Dude, you really should be minding your own business. I am not involved in photo workshops in any way, but I find your actions very annoying.
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Isaac

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This posting concerns serious illegal activity by some photo workshops...

Thanks for the warning.
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alan a

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Thanks for the warning.

You're welcome.

Dude, you really should be minding your own business. I am not involved in photo workshops in any way, but I find your actions very annoying.

I am merely describing the policies of the BLM and Park Service.  This has absolutely nothing to do with whether I am "minding my own business."  Photographers who consider spending thousands of dollars on a workshop should be aware of this issue.  These policies -- and enforcement by the BLM and Park Service -- existed before I posted here, and it would exist regardless of whether I provided this information. 

I do agree with those BLM and Park Service policies, however.  The BLM and Park Service have seen their budgets slashed, and those of us who go on those lands should support those public lands through user fees -- including by paying those fees through tour operators who must obtain permits.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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... As for the comment that I am on a "high horse" -- do you condone photo tours that violate federal law?...

Let me tell you what I do NOT condone:

- too much regulation, government or not
- excessive fees for basically a common good
- photo tours (photography is a solitary endeavor)
- photo-tour participants who expect the leader to hold their hand all the time, hoping some of the greatness will rub off on them

And what I particularly do not condone:

- snitching with a religious fervor

alan a

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- too much regulation, government or not
- excessive fees for basically a common good

And what I particularly do not condone:

- snitching with a religious fervor


I guess we will have to disagree.  User fees and permits on America's public lands do not constitute "excessive fees."  What we all pay to enter the national parks is an absurdly low fee and hardly excessive.  The same applies for permit fees, that a lawful and professional photo operator simply passes on to his clients in what would actually be a small per person charge.  And it is hardly too much regulation for the BLM and Park Service to enforce those policies.  Our disagreement is not about my posting.  It is about the role of government, and the fact that all of us -- who visit these vast and wonderful western spaces -- can and should pay user and permit fees to do so.  Fees that are absurdly low in any event.  

As for snitching, the list of permit holders is on the BLM web sites.  I explained that photographers can simply consult those lists.  So I am not advocating being a "snitch."  Merely warning my fellow photographers that if you pay for a workshop that does not have a permit, you do so at your own risk -- and you are financially supporting a tour operator who violates federal law, rather than one who follows federal law.  And if a workshop is not on the list, the photographer can always make one phone call to determine if the workshop has a permit.  That is hardly "snitching."  It is to determine if an operator is a professional who meets BLM requirements, such as liability insurance, and has a permit.

Finally, in my own case (read my posting) I disagreed with the local hiking guide, when that guide emailed the BLM and turned in the photo workshop without my permission.  I strongly defended the workshop, and believed their protestations of innocence and that they had all necessary permits.  Only to find that I was misled by disingenuous statements from the workshop operator -- statements that were simply false.  So when the BLM asked me to for an email documenting where I had seen the workshop, I supplied the requested information.  If you call that snitching, well so be it.  If the workshop operator had not misled me -- and directly violated the instructions of the BLM -- that would not have been the result.

From that experience, and conversations with guides and photo tour operators who follow the law -- I learned that this was not an isolated incident or just one rogue operator.  The problem is more widespread than that.  Thus my posting here.



« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 01:53:18 am by alan a »
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Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Okay you are angry - we understood.
You have a reason for it - we understood.
Thanks for the warning.
Its good now.
Now you should let your post develop its impact on its own
step back a step and focus on taking images.
Cheers
~Chris

alan a

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Agreed!  ;D  And speaking of images, yours (I spotted the link under your name) are very good -- I particular like the B&W shots.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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... User fees and permits on America's public lands do not constitute "excessive fees."  What we all pay to enter the national parks is an absurdly low fee and hardly excessiveThe same applies for permit fees... a small per person charge....Fees that are absurdly low in any event...

Versus:

... BLM and National Park Service permits are not cheap... A BLM permit for a professional guide service or workshop operator is not cheap, and is actually fairly expensive. It is an expensive permit for professional operators...

Make up your (self-righteous) mind, man! Are they "absurdly cheap" or are they "fairly expensive"?

I understand, however. Angry people tend to spew out so many things that they can hardly remember at the end what they said in the beginning. Given the sheer verbosity of your diatribe (is this the right Latin word?... or is it, perhaps, diarrhea, the verbal kind?), it is easy to get lost in the maze of your postings. Perhaps hiring a guide to help you navigate your own posts? Just make sure that the guide is fully licensed, with all the necessary permits. Otherwise, some sanctimonious jerk might shut down his operation, and you will be left lost, in the wilderness of your own toxic posts, trying to remember what you initially said and avoid the inconsistency traps along the way.

Alun

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I've always thought that the USA could save itself a whole bunch of money if they just put one big sign up in every airport arrivals area that simply says "DON'T". If you want to take hassle free landscape pictures, come to North Wales  8) and I'll show anyone round for free!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 10:26:24 am by Alun »
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alan a

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Make up your (self-righteous) mind, man! Are they "absurdly cheap" or are they "fairly expensive"?

You quoted my posts out of context, as you know.  I should drop this, but allow me to clarify that my posts are, in fact, consistent.  I also did not engage in name-calling or personal attacks against you.  

You are the one who posted about limited government and excessive fees in the context of our national parks and public lands, not me.  The fees that we pay on an individual basis to enter our national parks are absurdly low.  The permit fee for a for-profit operation is, as I stated, more expensive.  That is why the unprofessional rogue workshops do not obtain permits and operate illegally, as compared with a professional who applies for a permit, meets the BLM guidelines, and pays the higher fee for the permit.

The tour operators and guides pay a higher permit fee, simply because they are taking groups of people onto BLM lands or the national parks.  The permit fee reflects that, and a professional operator passes that cost through to each client or customer, and that then results in a smaller per-person charge that each of us pays.  

That is called basic math.

I won't be the one who will be snitching or turning anyone in, because I won't be utilizing a rogue company who operates illegally and does not have a permit.

The BLM made it very clear to me that they enforce their policies against illegal tour operators when they find them on BLM lands.  (In the case of the workshop organizer that prompted my posting, after the workshop, the BLM subsequently found that operator hosting a large gathering on BLM lands, and told me that they brought in BLM law enforcement to question his activities.  That occurred before I ever talked to the BLM the very first time.  I had nothing to do with that -- it simply reflected that the BLM enforces their permit policies.)

If anyone chooses to utilize a workshop that operates without a permit, you run the risk of having your event shut down.  For the simple reason that the BLM or Park Service may stop and question their activities;  determine they do not have a permit; and then shuts them down.

Thus the title of my posting -- be forewarned.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 10:33:35 am by alan a »
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Colorado David

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Some years ago congress passed a law the intent of which was to recover the costs associated with big motion picture productions that were produced on public lands.  Think of the westerns that were shot in Monument Valley, etc.  It was meant to cover the film industry that might have a crew of sixty with catering trucks, grip trucks, trailers for actors, and possibly a cast of many people and animals.  The law was passed and the execution of it was delegated to the Forest Service and the BLM.  Agencies then forced the writing of regulations based on the law down as far as they could which is why it costs a $100 per day for a single still photographer to shoot images in an Alaskan National Forest and it will cost $100 per year to shoot in a National Wildlife Refuge Area in Oregon.  And the rest of the country has similar disparity of regulations.  That was never the intent of the law.  Various professional associations have been trying for years now to get a set of regulations passed by law that would cover all public lands across the U.S. and avoid the checker board piecemeal alphabet soup of regulations.  There is broad bipartisan support for this type of law and it has been introduced several times and has had many sponsors.  It hasn't gone anywhere because of other issues unrelated to the validity of this proposed law.  I agree that if a permit is required of you, you should buy one and remain within the law.  Have you shot photographs on National Forest lands, National Wildlife Refuge lands, or BLM lands?  If you have and have any intent to sell an image at some time in the future, you were required to have purchased a photography permit.  This is not the case in National Parks, but that is the only exception.  Our professional associations point in this debate is that if an amateur has access to an area and can shoot a picture without a fee, the professional who has the same footprint should be able to shoot without a fee.  We already own the land.  That's why they are called public lands.  It cost no more in administrative costs for me to walk to an area, set up a tripod and shoot a photograph than it does for an amateur.  I have no more impact, probably less, than the amateur.  I pay my permit fees, but it was not the intent of the law.  There are a lot of people with hard feelings about this deal.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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... We already own the land.  That's why they are called public lands... I pay my permit fees, but it was not the intent of the law.  There are a lot of people with hard feelings about this deal.

Amen, brother!

Robert Roaldi

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And what I particularly do not condone:

- snitching with a religious fervor

Would you condone snitching without the "fervor"?
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Robert
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