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Author Topic: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r  (Read 17380 times)

ErikKaffehr

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My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« on: October 30, 2013, 02:47:12 am »

Hi,

I felt I could start a new topic…

The way I see it, the Alpha 7/7r is great news for those having old great lenses that now can be used with a modern camera. It is also a way for Sony shooters to get access to some desirable lenses. For instance, the Canon 24/2.8 TS may work on the Alpha 7/7r.

One concern I might have is if the bayonet on the camera is strong enough to hold heavy lenses?

If Sony develops a lens program with high enough quality the system may be attractive. So far I would say that Sony's offerings lack consistency both on Alpha and E-mount. Sony says Alpha (A-mount) will continue, with new cameras coming.

I gather that image quality is excellent. I am less sure about the 7r not having OLP filtering. Would Sony have a 7r with OLP filter I would opt for that. I have had a Sony Alpha 55 which had a weak OLP filters and had more issues than I liked. Shooting medium format I also feel the aliasing (color aliasing mostly) causes a lot of issues at the apertures I shoot. Imaging Resource has a preview of the A7r and they also feel that OLP filtering is needed on the 7r.

As a long time Minolta/Sony owner, I would also say that I am not that impressed by the lens line. Obviously, I cannot compare with Canon, Nikon and others. What I can see is that many of the lenses could be better and that they are quite often more expensive than the competition.

So, will I buy an Alpha 7? Not right now. I will wait for test reports on the lenses and sample images. I would not mind a small camera with a good walk around zoom, for instance. The A7 designation indicates that it is an enthusiast camera. Top of the line is normally called something with a '9' in Sony nomenclature. So I guess that Alpha 9 may be in the pipeline.

Best regards
Erik
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 03:30:15 am by ErikKaffehr »
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CptZar

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 04:30:03 am »

I am waiting for that camera for years now. I had the A850 and I if I look at the images toady, still color rendition is very pleasant. But the 850 lacked live view, and as I switched to TS lenses, I use 17, 24, 40 and 80 mm, it became impossible to use it without that. I then had a look at the NEX7. It was a nice cam, but the crop just made it unpractical with the given lenses. And the NEX7 is a haptic nightmare.

So I switched to a Canon 5DIII. Though haptic is excellent, for landscape photography I didn't like it at all. The dynamic range is quite small and many times I find myself exposure blending which may take much to long time. I have to use a magnifier lens for the LCD to get things sharp, and the images sometimes just don't look right. Colors shown aren't what there really was. The Nikon D800, was no option as the TS lineup is not what I wanted (TS 17) and live view seams to be from hell. Thats at least what I read e.g. from diglloyd.

Now her comes the Sony rA7. 36MP. Superclear EVF, so I can focus more precise than ever before, I can see WB changes, the Histogram, in short all the infos I need.It will have the best 36 mm sensor so far, with incredible DR. I can push the blacks without all the color noise I am getting now. I can use all  my lenses on it, and I am sure even vignetting with the 17TS is no real world issue.  And there is Focus Peeking, incredible helpful with tilting which is now only trial and error.

I ordered it right away. Delivery is said to be Nov 21st. For me this is what I would want from a landscape camera.  I don't think I will ever touch the 5DIII after that again. So I guess it goes to eBay. The 5DIII has some advantages, of course, just the remote control cable is way better than Sony's. The wireless flash. And of course the 85/1.2 and 50/1.2. But how often can you use them? For portraits hard to use, as only the center double crosspointers get things sharp. Not very helpful if the eye is in the left top of the frame. But even then, I hear the Sony has eye detection. Maybe these lenses work fine manual focused with the a7r, too.

So for me thongs can't be better.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 12:51:51 pm by CptZar »
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PhotoEcosse

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 06:01:17 am »

My guess (and it is only a guess - I have no privileged information) is that it will not be long before both Nikon and Canon bring out full-frame mirrorless cameras. (In Nikon's case, probably using a Sony sensor).

Obviously such developments by either Nikon or Canon would offer huge advantages over the option of switching to Sony - so probably worth waiting for a wee while to see what develops.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 06:05:53 am »

Seem to be very interesting cameras, but not on my priority list right now.

Cheers,
Bernard

Dr Tone

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2013, 12:45:22 pm »

My guess (and it is only a guess - I have no privileged information) is that it will not be long before both Nikon and Canon bring out full-frame mirrorless cameras. (In Nikon's case, probably using a Sony sensor).

Obviously such developments by either Nikon or Canon would offer huge advantages over the option of switching to Sony - so probably worth waiting for a wee while to see what develops.

Only a rumor but just this morning I read that Nikon won't be getting the new sony sensor specially designed for mirror less setups.

Unless Canon has some secret sensor in the bag they don't have the megapixels or dynamic range of the Sony.

So I really don't see any reason to wait for Nikon or Canon since you don't have switch systems, just buy an adapter and use your current excellent Canon or Nikon glass.
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Fine_Art

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 12:45:33 pm »

Only a rumor but just this morning I read that Nikon won't be getting the new sony sensor specially designed for mirror less setups.

Unless Canon has some secret sensor in the bag they don't have the megapixels or dynamic range of the Sony.

So I really don't see any reason to wait for Nikon or Canon since you don't have switch systems, just buy an adapter and use your current excellent Canon or Nikon glass.


DxO has a review for the 7R that says it is a match for the Nikon d800, d800e. They are convinced it is the same sensor with no OLP filter.
http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Sony-Alpha-7R-review-Highest-ever-full-frame-image-quality

Ive been pretty happy with Alpha lenses on APSC. Given the low DxO scores relative to Canikon lenses I think the problems must only be on FF. Using the Canikon glass on the 7R would be the way to go.
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barryfitzgerald

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 02:39:36 pm »

Something folks tend to forget somewhat.
Autofocus...

Sony have an adaptor for A mount (but when you add the cost to the body it's not that attractive for A mount users)
For everything else manual focus, and of course once we mix flash in we can see limitations for users tempted by this.

As an A mount user I'm a lot more interested in a native mount body than this.
No shock that the sensor has identical performance to the Nikon DSLR's so can't see why anyone is overly excited about that.

I think for most folks, FF is too expensive to be worthwhile right now.
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NancyP

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2013, 03:15:33 pm »

CptZar, I have the 6D, and use the Live View with magnification option to get critical focus. You can magnify 10x or so, which is fine for me on the LCD. If you feel comfortable, you could get focus peaking with loading the Magic Lantern software. Lens Rentals is renting out 5D3s pre-loaded with ML, so the 5D3 ML must be well past the alpha testing stage and is likely near the "anybody can load and run with reliable results" stage. I haven't bothered with loading ML on one of my cameras yet, but you format your card, use the computer to load ML onto it, and use it in your camera. This isn't different from the firmware upgrades I have done on other cameras. In other news, yes, Canon has less dynamic range, and tests out with 1 to 1.5 stops less DR than the Sony/Nikon sensors.

Sony shooters have already been hoovering up legacy lenses for the past several years. You are only going to find bargains on a local craigslist or garage sale, I am afraid. eBay may occasionally produce bargains. If your existing legacy lenses are up to the D800-style sensor of the alpha-7R, you will be in luck. Don't carry legacy lenses near your 'nads if they have a slight yellow cast - those lenses have a radioactive element.

FF too expensive for most folks - that's probably right - for up-graders there's also the cost of replacing the EF-S/DX glass.
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jfirneno

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2013, 03:30:04 pm »

Something folks tend to forget somewhat.
Autofocus...

Sony have an adaptor for A mount (but when you add the cost to the body it's not that attractive for A mount users)
For everything else manual focus, and of course once we mix flash in we can see limitations for users tempted by this.

Barry:

Maybe for you the cost of a $200 or $350 AF adapter is the difference between buying or not buying a $1700 ff camera but I'd say for most people with a big collection of a-mount glass it would not be the deciding factor.  A more relevant question is whether having to use an adapter is acceptable.  For me I'd prefer to use the adapter that doesn't use the SLT mirror.  I'd rather manual focus some of the nicer screw driven lenses (like the 135mm f108) and use the native FE lenses for autofocus.

Regards,
John
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2013, 03:41:05 pm »

Hi,

I actually see benefits of full frame. On the other hand I have made many of my best images on APS-C. It may be better to have APS-C and travel than having full frame and have less shooting opportunities. Also, excellent results are only possible with careful work. So, I see an advantage with larger formats, but those advantages need some work to achieve.

Best regards
Erik



FF too expensive for most folks - that's probably right - for up-graders there's also the cost of replacing the EF-S/DX glass.
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AFairley

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2013, 05:27:27 pm »

Rumors are that Fuji is coming out with a FF version of the X-Pro1 next year.  No word on MP yet that I'm aware of.
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Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2013, 05:41:48 pm »

Rumors are that Fuji is coming out with a FF version of the X-Pro1 next year.  No word on MP yet that I'm aware of.
Would be a new system with new and bigger lenses then.

barryfitzgerald

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2013, 07:24:17 pm »

Barry:

Maybe for you the cost of a $200 or $350 AF adapter is the difference between buying or not buying a $1700 ff camera but I'd say for most people with a big collection of a-mount glass it would not be the deciding factor.  A more relevant question is whether having to use an adapter is acceptable.  For me I'd prefer to use the adapter that doesn't use the SLT mirror.  I'd rather manual focus some of the nicer screw driven lenses (like the 135mm f108) and use the native FE lenses for autofocus.

Regards,
John

I can only speak for myself but I'm just not that interested in these new A7 products.
I have quite a decent number of good quality FF lenses, and like many some gems of the Minolta era with the excellent metal build and also some decent Tamron FF glass mixed in. So most of my lenses are actually full frame.

Problem for me is, I have to use an adaptor for the lenses, then I have to use another adaptor for my flashes.
MF is ok for scenic work or portraits, but it's not great for action/moving subjects.

I think what Sony needed to do was bring a genuinely affordable FF body for A mount, and the A99 just isn't a big enough step up IMO for the asking price.
So I think for now I'll just use 35mm FF when I actually do need full frame, and use APS-C digital for most of the other stuff I do.

Full frame is mostly interesting to get those 35mm format lenses back to what they are most useful for, some are odd on APS-C (28/35mm zooms for example) on the other hand I can't say a 70-200mm is an issue for a crop body, nor some other primes like my 90mm macro (effectively a 135mm f2.8 now)

Other than that, and some more DOF control (but DOF control is ok on APS-C) I'm really not seeing it's anywhere near worth the asking price. FF isn't a golden road to heaven in every respect.

The other "big problem" is all those lenses are stabilised right now on A mount, they're not on E mount. That alone kills a lot of interest from me. I could probably wipe out the FF low light advantage in some cases with in body stabilisation. So we're back to square one..suddenly an E mount FF body isn't half as appealing as an A mount one.
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DaveCurtis

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2013, 09:31:04 pm »

I'm using a 5DIII and my favourite lenses are Zeiss ZEs, 21, 35f1.4, 50MP and 100MP.

My interest is in the A7r because of the great sensor and also being able to focus theses lenses more accurately with the EVF  via a metabones adapter.

I will still keep the 5D3 as my main workhorse.

I will be interested in some reviews of this combination on a production A7r.

I have never used an EVF and high quality lenses via an adapter so this will be an interesting experience for me.

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ErikKaffehr

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 12:28:43 am »

Hi,

That would work fine!

Best regards
Erik


I'm using a 5DIII and my favourite lenses are Zeiss ZEs, 21, 35f1.4, 50MP and 100MP.

My interest is in the A7r because of the great sensor and also being able to focus theses lenses more accurately with the EVF  via a metabones adapter.

I will still keep the 5D3 as my main workhorse.

I will be interested in some reviews of this combination on a production A7r.

I have never used an EVF and high quality lenses via an adapter so this will be an interesting experience for me.


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stevesanacore

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2013, 11:00:48 am »


If my Canon shift lenses work perfectly on this camera, then it's a fantastic solution for architectural and landscape work. It's very exciting, but until the hands on reviews are in, who really knows.... I wonder how they overcame the live view issue that Nikon has with the D800?



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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2013, 11:18:45 am »

If my Canon shift lenses work perfectly on this camera, then it's a fantastic solution for architectural and landscape work. It's very exciting, but until the hands on reviews are in, who really knows.... I wonder how they overcame the live view issue that Nikon has with the D800?

Hi Steve,

What live view issue are you referring to?

Live view (and preferably tethering support) is essential for accurate tilt focusing.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 11:20:48 am by BartvanderWolf »
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2013, 03:10:03 pm »

Hi,

I have not seen the D800 but I have both Sony Alpha 77 and Alpha 99 and I feel live view is OK on both, but I cannot compare with cameras I don't have.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Steve,

What live view issue are you referring to?

Live view (and preferably tethering support) is essential for accurate tilt focusing.

Cheers,
Bart
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aaykay

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2013, 06:40:19 am »

A more relevant question is whether having to use an adapter is acceptable.  For me I'd prefer to use the adapter that doesn't use the SLT mirror.  I'd rather manual focus some of the nicer screw driven lenses (like the 135mm f108) and use the native FE lenses for autofocus.

Regards,
John

Agreed about the adapter.  I am not a big fan of an adapter with the SLT mirror (the LA-EA4 - $350), even though it does AF (Phase detect AF) with all of the A-mount lenses (screw-driven and also with built-in motors).

There is the LA-EA3 (available for $250), which does not have the SLT mirror in the light-path, but will only AF with the lenses that have the built-in motors, and you will need to manually focus the screw-drive lenses.  The AF used is of course the Contrast Detect AF, which, even though more accurate than Phase-detect, is slower.
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David Sutton

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Re: My take on the Sony Alpha 7/7r
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2013, 05:16:05 pm »

My feeling is that the Alpha 7r in particular may present a similar problem to the D800, namely most folks' lenses and technique are not up to the megapixel count. They are really turning it into a 20 to 25mp camera.
It will be interesting to get some facts on whether adapters are engineered accurately enough to really be worthwhile in this regard.
For me, the attraction of the D800, and by inference the A7R, is the ability to really lift shadow detail without introducing a hideous amount of noise.
On the other hand, a lot of my photography is hand held. And here is the attraction for me of a system like Fuji makes: after four or five hours work holding and lifting a camera with a 70- 300 lens, which will be sharper and have more detail, those files or those using a big lens on a FF sensor?
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