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Author Topic: Fuji raw processing issues  (Read 7564 times)

armand

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Fuji raw processing issues
« on: July 30, 2013, 11:56:37 am »

I've had some issues in the past with the red spectrum processing but this seems pretty bad. It is more on the magenta/purple side than red, but I can see it for the red also.
I posted the unedited ooc jpg and the raw shot at the same time with the initial Lightroom interpretation. The jpg are far more true to what it was.
How do you even deal with this? I play with the sliders but I can't get the color quite right. If you shoot just raw you might not even realize it that easily.
Interestingly I don't see the obvious shift in all the shots.

Telecaster

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2013, 04:33:40 pm »

I've been mostly using my X-E1's on-board RAW processing rather than any external software. This produces a JPEG, of course, but with care one that requires little additional post work.

Other software, like Iridient Developer, C1 & even Aperture seem to do a better job with the X sensors than Lightroom/ACR, but IMO no-one has yet really got it. Given the unique color filter matrix I expect it'll just take further work by the various third parties...

I've recently re-processed some of my 10-year-old Canon 10D RAWs with current software. Yow! In quite a few cases the improvements in both spatial detail and tonal gradation are significant. Sure wish I could retroactively upgrade photos shot on now fading 1970s-era E6 to the latest & greatest.   :)

-Dave-
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2013, 12:36:25 pm »

+1 try with latest version of c1 and post results

JV

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2013, 04:02:36 pm »


but IMO no-one has yet really got it.

I fully agree. 

I have tried SilkyPix, Iridient Developer and Capture 1. 

Depending on the type of image (people/landscape, high/low ISO, etc) one might have an edge over the other but none of them blows the competition away. 
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Vladimirovich

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2013, 08:07:59 pm »

I have tried SilkyPix

the latest relevant update too ?

Quote
MAY/27/2013 Ver.5.0.39.0 (not OEM version shipped w/ camera)

- Image quality improvement of a development for photographs filmed with a
      digital camera which uses X-Trans CMOS sensor. The improved image processing
      algorithm reduces several undesirable effects (moire, etc.) but keeps
      high resolution of a photograph.
      In addition, color reproducibility of photographs filmed under specific
      conditions is improved.
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Alan Smallbone

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2013, 12:15:23 am »

Actually Fuji just published the new updated version of Silkypix and can be downloaded from the Fuji site:

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/myfinepix_studio/rfc/win/index.html

Alan
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Alan Smallbone
Orange County, CA

Vladimirovich

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2013, 10:02:53 am »

Actually Fuji just published the new updated version of Silkypix and can be downloaded from the Fuji site:

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/myfinepix_studio/rfc/win/index.html

Alan

indeed, it probably has (or certainly shall have) the relevant enhancements, but otherwise it is still SilkyPix v3 w/ such enhancements, not SilkyPix v5 Pro , which can be obtained cheap for existing owners of Fuji cameras (special promotion) = http://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/f/
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Alan Smallbone

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2013, 10:08:45 am »

Well it may be a discounted price at around $220 us for the upgrade for Fuji camera owners, I find C1 and Lightroom to be a lot more useful. I pretty much process all my X-Pro 1 files in C1, I like the color and sharpness, and then catalog in Lightroom. I may eventually move over to C1 for everything, but so familiar with Lightroom and that is where all my existing catalogs are it makes DAM  a lot easier for me.

Alan
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Alan Smallbone
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Vladimirovich

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2013, 12:01:43 pm »

Well it may be a discounted price at around $220 us for the upgrade for Fuji camera owners
strange... similar update for Panasonic users (from free OEM SP to SP v5 Pro, locked just for only Panasonic cameras raw files) is like Yen 3800 ( http://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/english/campaign/forpana/ ) = USD $40 or less... Fuji seems to be more costly  ;)
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Alan Smallbone

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2013, 12:10:01 pm »

The difference seems to be it is the full featured version that has support for many other cameras, so the discount is not much. It would not be worth it for me, I never liked the interface that much, maybe I am getting to old and set in my ways but after having to learn C1 again (used the early version with my Canon cameras) after many years of Adobe Lightroom/RAW took a lot of effort to get the results I wanted. So I don't think I would want to make the effort to squeeze out the best from Silkypix.

Alan
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Alan Smallbone
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armand

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2020, 11:13:04 am »

I though I put this issue to rest but alas, no such luck.

I'm noticing again issues with processing proper blue/magenta from the X-T2 shots. All but one of the simulations made the blue appear purple, the only one that got it closer to reality is the Astia (Soft). The farther away from Astia I got, the more purple it became.
I even installed the CO Express for Fuji (with Astia simulation) and it wasn't really any better.
I'm attaching also a shot from Z7, processed in LR with Camera Standard as the start; it's much closer to the real thing.

PS. I suspect it's a combo of rendering and WB but I'm not sure how to fix it, besides using Astia simulations for blue subjects.


« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 11:30:04 am by armand »
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kimballistic

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2020, 12:53:20 pm »

SOOC or raw?

If raw, are you still using Lightroom to process them?

If raw & LR, I'd suggest comparing the Z7 & X-T2 shots using the same color profile, like Adobe Color or Adobe Standard.

When I shot Fuji I enjoyed their film simulations (well... Adobe's versions of them) but definitely had issues with blue skies at times.  I eventually used a colorchecker passport + Lumariver Profile Designer to create my own color profiles and left the more "stylized" profiles behind.
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armand

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2020, 01:57:13 pm »

SOOC or raw?

If raw, are you still using Lightroom to process them?

If raw & LR, I'd suggest comparing the Z7 & X-T2 shots using the same color profile, like Adobe Color or Adobe Standard.

When I shot Fuji I enjoyed their film simulations (well... Adobe's versions of them) but definitely had issues with blue skies at times.  I eventually used a colorchecker passport + Lumariver Profile Designer to create my own color profiles and left the more "stylized" profiles behind.

Raw, I don't think I can apply film simulations in LR to jpegs.

I'm not interested in comparing if Adobe default color is more accurate between Fuji and Nikon, but but get a more accurate profile. The Camera Standard for Nikon works relatively well. The Adobe color for Fuji was not that good for this particular problem, that's why I didn't post it.
Overall I can get it closer if I manipulate the hue for Blue in the HSL panel; somewhere between minus 5-10 for Astia and minus 15-20 for Provia gets it close.

kimballistic

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2020, 02:32:42 pm »

I'm not interested in comparing if Adobe default color is more accurate between Fuji and Nikon, but but get a more accurate profile.

Sadly there's the rub.  "Accurate" color and "film simulation" are mostly mutually exclusive.  Fuji's film simulations are all about mimicking the color response of Fuji's old films, not about general color accuracy.  Of course, some are more stylized than others, but I wouldn't consider any of them an attempt to stay "true" to the scene.

Personally I'd check out Adobe Neutral as a starting point, or at least Pro Neg Std.  And if you're still seeing unnatural hue shifts, consider creating custom profiles for your common light sources.

Quote
The Camera Standard for Nikon works relatively well. The Adobe color for Fuji was not that good for this particular problem, that's why I didn't post it.
Overall I can get it closer if I manipulate the hue for Blue in the HSL panel; somewhere between minus 5-10 for Astia and minus 15-20 for Provia gets it close.

Profiles are a tough nut to crack.  Generally speaking, the more "accurate" a profile is, the less pleasing/interesting it is initially.  Hence the existence of Fuji's film simulations.  You'll just have to pick whatever suits your needs for each photo, whether it be a Fuji sim or a neutral profile.  Sorry, there's no silver bullet here.  :(

You might be interested in Lumariver's "Profile-making Theory" portion of their manual:

http://www.lumariver.com/lrpd-manual/#profile_theory

Especially the "Subjective color" sub-section:
http://www.lumariver.com/lrpd-manual/#subjective_color
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David Sutton

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2020, 05:47:19 pm »

Just a aside I've never found the Adobe profiles that useful. I've always made my own with a ColorChecker Passport. In the past the blues in particular on Canon files were vastly improved. The X-rite plug in for Lightroom makes it a breeze.
Now I'm using C1 for raw conversion I've stopped making my own profiles. The C1 colour is very good indeed. I suspect quite a few of their engineers are Fuji users and put a lot of work into their colour.
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armand

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2020, 09:14:36 pm »

I keep hearing that CO is so much better for Fuji files yet when I test it the difference is really not that great. If you read above I did install the CO Express for Fuji and tried their profiles but they were no better than Adobe's Fuji simulation.

Quote
Personally I'd check out Adobe Neutral as a starting point, or at least Pro Neg Std.  And if you're still seeing unnatural hue shifts, consider creating custom profiles for your common light sources.
They were not better, I went through all, and for this specific color range the only one that was acceptable was the Astia. In case it wasn't clear from the example pictures they were taken outside, on a cloudy day.

Quote
"Accurate" color and "film simulation" are mostly mutually exclusive.  Fuji's film simulations are all about mimicking the color response of Fuji's old films, not about general color accuracy.
I don't need most accurate and overall I'm happy with the colors, I just don't like huge shifts in color, as in purple instead of mostly blue.

DP

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2020, 04:40:07 pm »

I though I put this issue to rest but alas, no such luck.

I'm noticing again issues with processing proper blue/magenta from the X-T2 shots. All but one of the simulations made the blue appear purple, the only one that got it closer to reality is the Astia (Soft). The farther away from Astia I got, the more purple it became.
I even installed the CO Express for Fuji (with Astia simulation) and it wasn't really any better.
I'm attaching also a shot from Z7, processed in LR with Camera Standard as the start; it's much closer to the real thing.

PS. I suspect it's a combo of rendering and WB but I'm not sure how to fix it, besides using Astia simulations for blue subjects.

you can use a ColorEditor in a fully functional version of C1 to tune specific range of "colors"
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DP

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2020, 04:41:23 pm »

I keep hearing that CO is so much better for Fuji files

mostly demosaick
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armand

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2020, 11:17:52 am »

you can use a ColorEditor in a fully functional version of C1 to tune specific range of "colors"

So far it hasn't been so widespread to make me go the extra step. I'm a little reluctant to do it because I'm quite comfortable with LR (much less with PS though) and learning another program.


mostly demosaick

Long ago when I tried it, it did lead to slightly better results at pixel level, but not really that much different in print at normal viewing distances. With this current example it actually looked worse than my LR attempt, both colors and pixel level quality. I could try harder but I doubt it will get that much better. I'll give it more chances for the future with the trickier scenes and see where it leads. Also keep in mind that LR now has the Enhance Details which can give a slight boost in details.

DP

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Re: Fuji raw processing issues
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2020, 12:11:42 pm »

Also keep in mind that LR now has the Enhance Details which can give a slight boost in details.

and along the way it generates a humongous linear (demosaicked) DNG file ... storage is cheap ? well I sync to couple of clouds for off-site backup and those linear DNGs it too much to deal with ... Adobe has to provide an option for people w/ decent GPUs to have that as a real "parametric" version 2020 (v6) process instead of making linear DNG side-wise
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