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Author Topic: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?  (Read 51367 times)

Rhossydd

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2013, 01:21:53 pm »

Yeah, this is confusing. When the new version of Lightroom comes out, lets call it Lightroom 6, as long as you are still a member of Creative Cloud, you will get Lightroom 6 (and 7, and 8, etc...). Same for Photoshop.

This is basically a Creative Cloud membership that includes Photoshop and Lightroom.

Hope that helps...
Sorry, but this leaves some confusion here.
So far we've been told all CC products cease to work when a subscription stops.
Where does LR, with it's perpetual licence model fit with that ?
Will the copy of LR that is subscribed to cease in the same way ? or will the subscription come with a working serial number for each of the next versions ?
If we get to, say, LR 7 and I decide that I don't need PS CC any more and cancel my subscription will LR7 continue to work in perpetuity and be independently upgradable ?

Sorry to be so pedantic, but these sort of issues matter a lot to the long term value of the offer.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2013, 01:49:39 pm »

Obviously you'd rather hear it officially, but you do get a proper version of Lightroom that continues to work after the end of the subscription. Will it allow you to get an upgrade on the next version of LR, not sure.

MikeChambers

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2013, 02:16:40 pm »

Sorry, but this leaves some confusion here.
So far we've been told all CC products cease to work when a subscription stops.
Where does LR, with it's perpetual licence model fit with that ?
Will the copy of LR that is subscribed to cease in the same way ? or will the subscription come with a working serial number for each of the next versions ?
If we get to, say, LR 7 and I decide that I don't need PS CC any more and cancel my subscription will LR7 continue to work in perpetuity and be independently upgradable ?

Sorry to be so pedantic, but these sort of issues matter a lot to the long term value of the offer.

There are two ways you can get Lightroom.

1. You can purchase a perpetual license. This does not provide access to future new versions of the software, although you will have any access to updates (i.e. 5.1, 5.2, etc...) of that software.

2. You can get Lightroom as part of a Creative Cloud membership. You have access to Lightroom, including future updates and versions as long as you continue to be a member of Creative Cloud.

This offer is a Creative Cloud offer. It is not a Photoshop CC subscription, with a perpetual license of Lightroom thrown in. It is a Creative Cloud subscription that includes Lightroom and Photoshop.

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
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mcbroomf

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2013, 02:30:44 pm »

There are two ways you can get Lightroom.

1. You can purchase a perpetual license. This does not provide access to future new versions of the software, although you will have any access to updates (i.e. 5.1, 5.2, etc...) of that software.

2. You can get Lightroom as part of a Creative Cloud membership. You have access to Lightroom, including future updates and versions as long as you continue to be a member of Creative Cloud.

This offer is a Creative Cloud offer. It is not a Photoshop CC subscription, with a perpetual license of Lightroom thrown in. It is a Creative Cloud subscription that includes Lightroom and Photoshop.

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
I think the confusion is that back on page 4 Eric wrote
"Hi Lloyd, the copy of Lr that you get with this deal is a perpetual license.  So you get to keep it if you stop subscribing.  As you said, the offer does require a minimum 1-year commitment."

It's clear from what you are saying that this is a PS+LR CC subscription and that you would lose both if you stopped, rather then being able to keep LR (although I will be able to keep the LR5 I already have).

Thanks
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MikeChambers

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2013, 02:37:18 pm »


It's clear from what you are saying that this is a PS+LR CC subscription and that you would lose both if you stopped, rather then being able to keep LR (although I will be able to keep the LR5 I already have).

Thanks


Yes. If you have purchased a perpetual license of Lightroom, then that will continue to work, even if you start and stop a Creative Cloud membership.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
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Peter S

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2013, 02:51:18 pm »

I owned a copy of Photoshop CS6 (as well as LR5) and I thought it was a reasonable deal to get access to all the Creative Cloud tools for £17.58 a month for oner year.  So I signed up just before the 31st August deadline.  This gives me a chance to play with some Adobe Products, for a year. Maybe expensive trials but 30 days is never enough.  I would like to continue this for the year.
Now there is another offer, which as an enthusiastic amateur, really meets all my needs but ..... I have to sign up to that before the end of this year.  If I don't I have no idea what I may have to pay for Photoshop and Lightroom when my first year CC deal ends.  On the other hand I don't want duplicated tools and costs.

If you have any guidance Mike I would be very pleased to hear it.
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MikeChambers

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2013, 03:19:02 pm »

I owned a copy of Photoshop CS6 (as well as LR5) and I thought it was a reasonable deal to get access to all the Creative Cloud tools for £17.58 a month for oner year.  So I signed up just before the 31st August deadline.  This gives me a chance to play with some Adobe Products, for a year. Maybe expensive trials but 30 days is never enough.  I would like to continue this for the year.
Now there is another offer, which as an enthusiastic amateur, really meets all my needs but ..... I have to sign up to that before the end of this year.  If I don't I have no idea what I may have to pay for Photoshop and Lightroom when my first year CC deal ends.  On the other hand I don't want duplicated tools and costs.

If you have any guidance Mike I would be very pleased to hear it.

I owned a copy of Photoshop CS6 (as well as LR5) and I thought it was a reasonable deal to get access to all the Creative Cloud tools for £17.58 a month for oner year.  So I signed up just before the 31st August deadline.  This gives me a chance to play with some Adobe Products, for a year. Maybe expensive trials but 30 days is never enough.  I would like to continue this for the year.
Now there is another offer, which as an enthusiastic amateur, really meets all my needs but ..... I have to sign up to that before the end of this year.  If I don't I have no idea what I may have to pay for Photoshop and Lightroom when my first year CC deal ends.  On the other hand I don't want duplicated tools and costs.

If you have any guidance Mike I would be very pleased to hear it.

You will be able to switch to the new photography plan once it is available. Once it is available, you will just need to contact Adobe customer support, and they can help switch you to the new program.

Right now, we don't have a solution if you want to switch to the new program in a year, when your current subscription expires (since the current photography offer expires at the end of this year).

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
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judymcintosh

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2013, 04:05:24 pm »

I think the confusion is that back on page 4 Eric wrote
"Hi Lloyd, the copy of Lr that you get with this deal is a perpetual license.  So you get to keep it if you stop subscribing.  As you said, the offer does require a minimum 1-year commitment."

It's clear from what you are saying that this is a PS+LR CC subscription and that you would lose both if you stopped, rather then being able to keep LR (although I will be able to keep the LR5 I already have).

Thanks

I think this needs to be spelt out really clearly across the various threads (3+ I see) discussing this offer as I think Eric's well- intentioned post may have encouraged some ( me included) to thinking this was a short term (12 month min commitment ) offer worth pursuing if lr5 came out the end even if PSCC didn't provide ongoing advantages to justify ongoing subscription ( an eyes wide open paid for trial all parties in good faith etc). Personally no lr5 at the end = no interest. Why? Not because I want something for nothing but because I want perpetual software which I retire to new versions ( as I have done lr3 to lr4, cs3 to cs5, capture one 6 to 7) when I see the point, and I'm willing to give adobe a chance to show me the benefit of subscription based upgrades to the products it sees the future in doing so for a limited time, but it will be the benefits ( ie value add) that will determine that  and whether i chose to go on for longer. after all I am still paying for the 12+ months it's not free.
Mike Chambers, maybe the FAQ needs to be 100% clear as many comments (Eric's included) may have confused this if I take it that you are the Adobe font of truth on this forum. :)
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MikeChambers

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2013, 04:30:50 pm »

I think this needs to be spelt out really clearly across the various threads (3+ I see) discussing this offer as I think Eric's well- intentioned post may have encouraged some ( me included) to thinking this was a short term (12 month min commitment ) offer worth pursuing if lr5 came out the end even if PSCC didn't provide ongoing advantages to justify ongoing subscription ( an eyes wide open paid for trial all parties in good faith etc). Personally no lr5 at the end = no interest. Why? Not because I want something for nothing but because I want perpetual software which I retire to new versions ( as I have done lr3 to lr4, cs3 to cs5, capture one 6 to 7) when I see the point, and I'm willing to give adobe a chance to show me the benefit of subscription based upgrades to the products it sees the future in doing so for a limited time, but it will be the benefits ( ie value add) that will determine that  and whether i chose to go on for longer. after all I am still paying for the 12+ months it's not free.
Mike Chambers, maybe the FAQ needs to be 100% clear as many comments (Eric's included) may have confused this if I take it that you are the Adobe font of truth on this forum. :)

Thanks. Ill pass it on to the team.

I think the issue is that we have said in the past, that Lightroom will remain available as a perpetual license. I also think some people may read that as Lightroom will ONLY be available via a perpetual license. As I posted above, it is available as a subscription as part of CC, and is also available as a perpetual license.

So, the Photography program we have been discussing is a Creative Cloud program, and the software you have access to (Photoshop / Lightroom) is available as long as you remain a member of Creative Cloud.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
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Rhossydd

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2013, 04:45:28 pm »

So, the Photography program we have been discussing is a Creative Cloud program, and the software you have access to (Photoshop / Lightroom) is available as long as you remain a member of Creative Cloud.
So let's be clear about this:
This PS+LR 'photography' deal is a "Creative Cloud" deal and anything you rent will not be usable once you cease the subscription.
So there's a now a subscription version of LR that won't come with a perpetual licence.
If you drop the subscription you'll just be left with whatever you used before the commitment ? eg CS4 & LR3
Correct ?
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MikeChambers

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2013, 05:15:04 pm »

So there's a now a subscription version of LR that won't come with a perpetual licence.

Yes. This isnt new, as Lightroom has been available as part of a full Creative Cloud subscription since Lightroom 4.

If you drop the subscription you'll just be left with whatever you used before the commitment ? eg CS4 & LR3
Correct ?

That is correct. As I posted above, the Photography program we have been discussing is a Creative Cloud program, and the software you have access to (Photoshop / Lightroom) is available as long as you remain a member of Creative Cloud.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
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Peter S

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2013, 05:25:22 pm »

You will be able to switch to the new photography plan once it is available. Once it is available, you will just need to contact Adobe customer support, and they can help switch you to the new program.

Right now, we don't have a solution if you want to switch to the new program in a year, when your current subscription expires (since the current photography offer expires at the end of this year).

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Your explanation helps me to understand where things stand but "Right now, we don't have a solution" doesn't really help very much.  Any chance you can come up with a solution before the end of the year?  It is nearly four months away and a reasonable solution shouldn't be too difficult.

Peter
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Eric Kellerman

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2013, 05:32:37 pm »

Mike Chambers, Are you able to comment on the rather fluid meaning of '9.99', according to where one lives?
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MikeChambers

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #113 on: September 06, 2013, 05:34:33 pm »

Mike Chambers, Are you able to comment on the rather fluid meaning of '9.99', according to where one lives?

I am not sure what you mean. We have updated the original blog post with Non-US pricing:

https://blogs.adobe.com/creativelayer/introducing-the-photoshop-photography-program/

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
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john beardsworth

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #114 on: September 06, 2013, 05:35:03 pm »

Mike

If you stop subscribing, does Lightroom stop working? There's inconsistency between what you just said and Eric's comments.

John

Eric Kellerman

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #115 on: September 06, 2013, 06:07:20 pm »

I am not sure what you mean. We have updated the original blog post with Non-US pricing:

https://blogs.adobe.com/creativelayer/introducing-the-photoshop-photography-program/

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Yes, Mike, I know that. I posted above about the fact that customers in the EU have to pay some 20 to 30% more than customers in the rest of the world. That is what I'd like you to comment on. How does Adobe explain the discrepancy in pricing for the very same service?
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MikeChambers

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #116 on: September 06, 2013, 06:08:35 pm »

Yes, Mike, I know that. I posted above about the fact that customers in the EU have to pay some 20 to 30% more than customers in the rest of the world. That is what I'd like you to comment on. How does Adobe explain the discrepancy in pricing for the very same service?

Ahh, no, I dont have any information on that.

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com
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Vladimirovich

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #117 on: September 06, 2013, 07:03:20 pm »

Mike

If you stop subscribing, does Lightroom stop working? There's inconsistency between what you just said and Eric's comments.

John

unless you have a perpetual LR license on top of that... or I 'd assume you can stop subscription and buy perpetual license right away for LR

PS: and Schewe was feeding is FUD quite sometime ago that Adobe has accounting nightmares when code is available under both licenses... LR is (and so is ACR codebase, because it is shared) and no issues in account dept.
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Schewe

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #118 on: September 06, 2013, 09:32:22 pm »

PS: and Schewe was feeding is FUD quite sometime ago that Adobe has accounting nightmares when code is available under both licenses... LR is (and so is ACR codebase, because it is shared) and no issues in account dept.

Well, you still don't have it right. ACR falls under Photoshop's accounting. As such, when hosted in Photoshop CC, ACR 8.x will continue to get new features when they are ready and released as part of the subscription. ACR 8.x hosted under a Photoshop CS6 perpetual license will not get new features, only new cameras and profiles. But ACR's code is small enough (and Thomas is smart enough) that revenue recognition isn't a big problem because Adobe doesn't sell Camera Raw as a product–in effect it has no real revenue.

Lightroom is still being developed under a perpetual license development accounting–even if it's available in CC packages. As such, after the LR 5.2 upgrade (which does get a couple of new features), LR 5.3+ will not get new features until the release of Lightroom 6. If you have the photo CC package, you'll get an upgrade to LR 6 when it ships.

Both of these are relatively small potatoes for Adobe when compared to all the apps currently found in the CC.
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DCB

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Re: Photoshop & Creative Cloud: We’re Listening?
« Reply #119 on: September 06, 2013, 09:49:21 pm »

Once you take advantage of the offer, then that is your base price as long as you maintain your subscription. It is possible that prices may rise in the future, but, this is not like the other offers where the price rises to the regular price after a year.

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

Mike,
First of all thanks for your inputs - hopefully at the end of the day (year) we can all make informed decisions.  However, while your words of "that is your base price as long as you maintain your subscription" are encouraging that is not what I am reading in Adobe's FAQs, which states "When you purchase directly from Adobe, the cost of an annual membership will not go up during the first 12 months of your membership. It is possible that the cost of the month-to-month membership will increase, but if it does, you will be notified and given the opportunity to cancel".  That is clearly stating that Adobe has the right to limit this to a 12 month trial and after 12 months Adobe has the right to increase my monthly cost (with the right to cancel).  That is not very encouraging!
Dave
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