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Author Topic: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?  (Read 193276 times)

Rob C

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #140 on: July 10, 2013, 10:10:19 am »

Is Rob included in the group? You did say the whole group. Disparaging people who don't agree with you means it is probably pointless you being a member of any internet forum.  :(


I forget; was it Louis B. Mayer or one of the Marx brothers (down, stamper, not that family) who exclaimed: "Include me out!"?

;-)

Rob C
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 10:12:04 am by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #141 on: July 10, 2013, 10:27:12 am »

Just recently I watched a documentary on Iran and I heard Barack Obama admit something that I thought no American president would ever admit. It should have made headlines around the world. Without doing a Google search does anyone know what he said?

Cheers,


Yes, somebody just told me at lunch today - he, the incumbent to whom you refer, was reminiscing about a predecessor:

"A recent president sidled up to an intern and asked her if she’d like to see his clock.

Ooh yes, she said, I really, really would!

So, pressy and intern walked into the almost-circular office where pressy proceeded to unzip (obviously, not a Levi 501 man), whereupon the intern gasped: ooh, Mr pressy, that’s not a clock!

Oh yes it is, replied Mr pressy, put two hands and a face on it, and there you are!"

How quickly the wire services spread the day's news.

Rob C

RSL

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #142 on: July 10, 2013, 10:59:52 am »

Is Rob included in the group? You did say the whole group. Disparaging people who don't agree with you means it is probably pointless you being a member of any internet forum.  :(

Easy Stamper, those of who were included know who you are. And, of course, everybody has a right to his opinion, even if he knows absolutely nothing about the subject upon which he's opining. As I pointed out, knowing nothing about the subject makes having an opinion a lot more fun.  ::)

Incidentally, I love the definition of "opining" in my WordWeb: "Express one's opinion openly and without fear or hesitation." Unfortunately the definition didn't add "or knowledge"

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stamper

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #143 on: July 10, 2013, 11:27:38 am »

Quote Russ


Easy Stamper, those of who were included know who you are.

Unquote.

I assume you meant.


Easy Stamper, those of who were included know who THEY are.

Otherwise the sentence doesn't make sense imo.

Quote Slobodan & Russ.

Are we now getting nasty and personal, Russ!?

No, Slobodan. That comment was intended for the whole group on this thread, and I apologize because I can see why you could take it personally. I see endless comments by people who haven't a clue what they're talking about, but that's pretty normal when something like this comes up.

Unquote


« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 11:40:55 am by stamper »
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Isaac

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #144 on: July 10, 2013, 03:16:09 pm »

As you said: "Any sources for that?"

Take that up with Rob C.
...
How do you make time for all of your vigorous research into all these exciting threads? Do you have staff?

Tut-tut.

Your selective quotation makes it seems as-if I was saying Bart should take up the issue of source material with you - when in fact I said Bart should take up the issue of not really on topic with you --

Besides, this is not really on topic for this thread...

Take that up with Rob C.


Incidentally the answer to your question is that it doesn't take me very long at all.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 03:29:30 pm by Isaac »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Rob C

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #146 on: July 10, 2013, 05:53:04 pm »

...
How do you make time for all of your vigorous research into all these exciting threads? Do you have staff?

Tut-tut.

Your selective quotation makes it seems as-if I was saying Bart should take up the issue of source material with you - when in fact I said Bart should take up the issue of not really on topic with you --

Take that up with Rob C.


Incidentally the answer to your question is that it doesn't take me very long at all.



Ooops! What I was concerned about was your evidence-questing which strikes me as either very time/labour consuming or, alternatively, and as you imply, it comes naturally to you from the vast data already in place.

Either way -congratulations!

;-)

Rob C

tom b

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #147 on: July 10, 2013, 06:03:25 pm »

"Just recently I watched a documentary on Iran and I heard Barack Obama admit something that I thought no American president would ever admit. It should have made headlines around the world. Without doing a Google search does anyone know what he said?"

The answer is…

Obama has admitted that the U.S. was involved in the Iranian coup in 1953 which ousted the democratically elected government.

We all know about the axis of evil, but do you know about SAVAK which was formed under the guidance of the CIA.

I was in Tehran six months before the Shah fell. There was an army soldier on every street corner in centre of the city. People walked up to us and started conversations without trying to sell us anything which is quite unusual in Asia. Two conversations have remained with me.

The first one I was told that 100 000 people had been killed by the Shah's troops in Mashhad. I must admit I dismissed it but it stuck with me.

The second conversation was after I had witnessed a large number of tanks doing war games to the south of Tehran. I mentioned it in a conversation and was told that they had killed 8000 people.

It was quite disturbing that complete strangers would come up and talk about massacres in a casual conversation.

I didn't think that the Shah would be deposed and was amazed when I read about his demise six months later when I was in Israel.

I don't know if Snowden is a hero or a criminal. I do know that we have to know what our governments are doing if we are to know what is happening out there.

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

dreed

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #148 on: July 11, 2013, 01:14:11 am »

I do know that we have to know what our governments are doing if we are to know what is happening out there.

And that is exactly what the governments do not want.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #149 on: July 11, 2013, 04:04:00 am »


I forget; was it Louis B. Mayer or one of the Marx brothers (down, stamper, not that family) who exclaimed: "Include me out!"?

;-)

Rob C

Sam Goldwyn, I think.

Jeremy
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Rob C

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #150 on: July 11, 2013, 04:19:41 am »

Sam Goldwyn, I think.

Jeremy


Probably was - I always felt more inclined to learn about the actresses than the moguls!

However, I think it was Mr Marx of brotherly fame who inspired me to eschew the joining of clubs.

;-)

Rob C

Rocco Penny

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #151 on: July 11, 2013, 12:56:06 pm »

here is why this matters-
find criminal negligence, go after those responsible, then get sued for investigating and proving the liability.
f'd up world
they're trying to turn it upside down from what's right, to what's efficacious
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/10/2275611/federal-judge-authorizes-chevrons-sweeping-subpoena-of-activists-internet-data/?mobile=nc
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Ray

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #152 on: July 11, 2013, 11:36:26 pm »

Isn't it just awful when one gets a glimpse of the sorts of things that go on behind the scenes.

Perhaps it's now time in this thread for a dose of optimism. There is a case to be made that violence, murder, skulduggery, rape, torture, criminal behaviour and death due to wars, is on the decline and is now far less, as a percentage of population, than it has ever been in the history of mankind.

The TED talk linked below provides an interesting perspective.

http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html
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Gulag

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #153 on: July 12, 2013, 01:38:58 am »

I don't really believe the narrative that has been told by both Mr. Snowden and MSM.  I hate to sound cynical but there is probably more to it behind the scene. What really matters is that a numerous national surveys have successfully confirmed that a great majority of American consumers don't mind at all. Basically, that's the chief purpose of Mr. Snowden's show. After all,  "The business of America is business," and what is good for business is good for America. Mussolini succinctly pointed out nearly 100 years ago,  “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. Fascism is a religion. The twentieth century will be known in history as the century of Fascism.  Believe, Obey, Fight." Now let's get back to work, consume and pay taxes.
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Rob C

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #154 on: July 12, 2013, 04:18:39 am »

I don't really believe the narrative that has been told by both Mr. Snowden and MSM.  I hate to sound cynical but there is probably more to it behind the scene. What really matters is that a numerous national surveys have successfully confirmed that a great majority of American consumers don't mind at all. Basically, that's the chief purpose of Mr. Snowden's show. After all,  "The business of America is business," and what is good for business is good for America. Mussolini succinctly pointed out nearly 100 years ago,  “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. Fascism is a religion. The twentieth century will be known in history as the century of Fascism.  Believe, Obey, Fight." Now let's get back to work, consume and pay taxes.



Exactly what many of us would dearly love to be able do!

My best, most enjoyed years were the ones spent working. Why people think of work as a negative is beyond me: all you need do to transform your life is understand yourself and follow your instincts and heart. With the energy, optimism and strength of youth you can, and should, do it if only for yourself and those who will live beside you.

Rob C

dreed

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #155 on: July 12, 2013, 07:17:00 am »

I don't really believe the narrative that has been told by both Mr. Snowden and MSM.  I hate to sound cynical but there is probably more to it behind the scene. What really matters is that a numerous national surveys have successfully confirmed that a great majority of American consumers don't mind at all. Basically, that's the chief purpose of Mr. Snowden's show. After all,  "The business of America is business," and what is good for business is good for America.

That's because they get all the circuses (cable TV) and bread (fast food) that they want already:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

I suspect that the very same great majority of American consumers that don't mind also don't fully understand the dangers of what's going on and where it leads. None of the people that fully understand what Snowden has revealed and what it means like where it ends. Except those that benefit from it.

Strange as it may seem, but Europeans fully understand the dangers of what is going on in the USA because they've already been through it (from Hitler through until the wall came down.)

It won't be until Americans suffer from this that they demand change. Question is whether or not they're full from bread/circuses and will notice. Or in other words, things have to get worse, possibly much worse, in the USA (in terms of lost liberties/freedoms/rights) before anything stands a chance of getting better. Will it happen? Time will tell.

Quote
Mussolini succinctly pointed out nearly 100 years ago,  “Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. Fascism is a religion. The twentieth century will be known in history as the century of Fascism.  Believe, Obey, Fight." Now let's get back to work, consume and pay taxes.

You sound like our new overlord that wants submissive subjects that make you rich and don't ask any bothersome questions.

Problem is that the USA was founded as a Democratic state, not a Fascist state.

And I'm pretty sure that if you went to the public and asked them to vote for one or the other that most would choose Democracy.

I think that you've got the wrong idea about centuries as the 20th century has already concluded (it did so at the end of year 2000 - we're now in the 21st century), unless you mean that democracy has been dead in the USA for the last 13 years already?
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dreed

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #156 on: July 12, 2013, 07:22:20 am »

Exactly what many of us would dearly love to be able do!

My best, most enjoyed years were the ones spent working.

And I suppose you never found yourself in a situation similar to Snowden did where what you were seeing at work was morally wrong and not at all in accordance with American values or the constitution, did you?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #157 on: July 12, 2013, 07:43:02 am »

Problem is that the USA was founded as a Democratic state, not a Fascist state.

And I'm pretty sure that if you went to the public and asked them to vote for one or the other that most would choose Democracy.

At least one person seems to think that the right to vote doesn't have that much impact on the actual governance of the country.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html

Heck, he is probably wrong, but it wouldn't hurt to follow his recommendations, would it?

Cheers,
Bernard

Rocco Penny

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #158 on: July 12, 2013, 08:56:32 am »

I'm not talking about working, agreements, or political parties.
In the 80's there was this guy,  Ronald Reagan, he was the somewhat symbol of a country that had at that point suffered several hard realities, vietnam, the iran thing, a black eye in central america,
so what happens is one of this Reagan guy's minions,
Ollie North,
well he takes the blame for the highly illegal, and harmful sale of weapons to our enemy,
Iran.
So by that time the money stolen and ill gotten by trading with the enemy was diverted to this little band of freedom fighters in Nicaragua,
The Contras.
Remember them?
OK so the contras go on to kill and maim children, as well as plant landmines in their own country,
and
SMUGGLE DOPE INTO THE USA.
It's all been proven beyond reasonable doubt, and now we're supposed to jail whistleblowers and watchdog groups.
Remember when being a "card carrying liberal" was real bad?
You people just don't get it.
People die because of the policies we allow to stand.
If you do understand that people die because of these policies,
you then are a murderer's accomplice,
and there ain't no god that likes that
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 08:58:14 am by Rocco Penny »
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Vladimirovich

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Re: Is Richard Snowden a heroe or a criminal?
« Reply #159 on: July 12, 2013, 09:01:17 am »

After all,  "The business of America is business," and what is good for business is good for America.
nowadays it is what good for a class of "hired for stock options" managers running big business'
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