Pages: 1 ... 14 15 [16] 17 18 ... 27   Go Down

Author Topic: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update  (Read 126884 times)

Rhossydd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3369
    • http://www.paulholman.com
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #300 on: June 17, 2013, 06:23:56 am »

A promising initiative like Gimp first requires the transition to 16-bit/channel processing later this year or the beginning of next year to become a full alternative, but progress may speed up with a bit of outside hands-on sponsoring.
I admire your optimism on that.
If you start digging into how The Gimp is being developed, you'll discover it's not being thought of as a photo-centric application for main stream OSs. It will taken a huge amount of effort and lobbying by photographers to steer it towards our needs. I can't see enough people making that sort of commitment to such a slowly developing project that's inherently just a vanity project for coders.
Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8913
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #301 on: June 17, 2013, 08:06:58 am »

I admire your optimism on that.
If you start digging into how The Gimp is being developed, you'll discover it's not being thought of as a photo-centric application for main stream OSs. It will taken a huge amount of effort and lobbying by photographers to steer it towards our needs. I can't see enough people making that sort of commitment to such a slowly developing project that's inherently just a vanity project for coders.

Hi,

Well, 16-b/ch processing is apparently already implemented in the non-stable development version, but one has to compile it oneself. The available relatively stable compiled binaries are still 8-b/ch.

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Rhossydd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3369
    • http://www.paulholman.com
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #302 on: June 17, 2013, 08:28:00 am »

but one has to compile it oneself.
Which makes it a complete non-starter for most potential users.

More worrying is the way development is going. Removing the ability to simply 'save' an image* seems bizarre and unjustifiable.

*The save command only works with The Gimp's own xcf file format, anything else has to 'exported'
Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8913
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #303 on: June 17, 2013, 08:49:47 am »

Which makes it a complete non-starter for most potential users.

That's why I said it will take some time before it's available to all.

Quote
More worrying is the way development is going. Removing the ability to simply 'save' an image* seems bizarre and unjustifiable.

*The save command only works with The Gimp's own xcf file format, anything else has to 'exported'

Seems a bit similar to Photoshop either 'Printing' or 'Exporting' to a printer module. Not a real issue, in fact it's more obvious that the saved result is in a proprietary format, just like Layered Photoshop .psd files and .tiff files with proprietary adjustment layers.

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Rhossydd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3369
    • http://www.paulholman.com
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #304 on: June 17, 2013, 09:32:22 am »

Seems a bit similar to Photoshop either 'Printing' or 'Exporting' to a printer module.
???
You want to print an image in Photoshop you just click  'Print' from the menu or hit Ctrl+P

You want to save a Tiff/JPG/PNG/etc, you just click 'save' or hit Ctl+S or you can save in a different format should you need to.

The vast majority of programs work like this (excepting programs that work in project based work where the final output is usually different to the input eg DTP or video editing.)
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #305 on: June 17, 2013, 09:44:33 am »

Which makes it a complete non-starter for most potential users.

More worrying is the way development is going. Removing the ability to simply 'save' an image* seems bizarre and unjustifiable.

*The save command only works with The Gimp's own xcf file format, anything else has to 'exported'

Let's be clear, nobody is looking forward to having to use The Gimp in its present form. It is a brave effort but is lacking polish.

Now, Adobe is not leaving us much choice here, we have to look for alternatives since our beloved PS was de facto end of lifed. We cannot force them to develop a product if they don't feel like doing it.

Cheers,
Bernard

Rhossydd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3369
    • http://www.paulholman.com
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #306 on: June 17, 2013, 10:51:48 am »

We cannot force them to develop a product if they don't feel like doing it.
I get the impression that the Open Source projects aren't written by the end users, but the coders do it just for the experience/CV fodder.
The challenge would be to interest the coders in providing more photo-centric features, rather than the illustration bias we're seeing at the moment.
Not impossible and there's a decent basic set up to develop from, but changing the development focus won't be easy unless lots of people express an opinion.
Logged

Steve House

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 247
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #307 on: June 17, 2013, 11:18:21 am »

Let's be clear, nobody is looking forward to having to use The Gimp in its present form. It is a brave effort but is lacking polish.

Now, Adobe is not leaving us much choice here, we have to look for alternatives since our beloved PS was de facto end of lifed. We cannot force them to develop a product if they don't feel like doing it.

Cheers,
Bernard

That's just not true (that you have no choice).  You can stick with your present CS6 or earlier until the cows come home.  For new camera support you can use the free DNG converter if nothing else.  You can pay the $10 a month for a subscription and see what happens in the year to come before renewal comes around. Or you can switch trains - the choice is up to you.  If you think Adobe is presenting you with an onerous burden, Microsoft's release of the traditionally licensed version of Office 2013 was only authorized for 1 PC - no more installing to your desktop plus a laptop - and was permanently locked to the first machine you installed it on - retire that machine and upgrade to a new one, there was no uninstalling and moving the Office copy to the new computer, you had to buy a whole new full-price copy of Office for the new one and essentially trashcan the first one!  AND they abandoned reduced pricing for upgrades some time ago - upgrade from Office 2010 to Office 2013 you pay full-bore retail!  Still is that way if you get a PC with Office pre-installed by the manufacturer; the OEM version is not transferable to a new computer.  I have misgivings about the subscription model myself but some of you guys are really going to extremes in your vitriol.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 02:52:26 pm by Steve House »
Logged

Rand47

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1882
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #308 on: June 17, 2013, 11:57:08 am »

I'm watching the "Digital Photography Summit" live-stream from B&H.

The fellow from Adobe who is the product manager for Lightroom was just announcing the "special show pricing" for LR at B&H during the seminar and was saying that LR is available in-store, on line as a stand-alone product, or as part of the CC... that's when he got seriously booed by the crowd of several hundred live attendees.

I'm not trying to stir the pot with this post.  I was just surprised to hear that reaction "in the face of" Adobe at an event that they are a sponsoring.  We've been encouraged to make our feelings known to Adobe, and they just got a "definitive live dose" of those feelings at B&H.

Our tempest here really seems to be representative of the general feelings of folk "at large" - or at least at B&H today.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 11:59:41 am by Rand47 »
Logged
Rand Scott Adams

sniper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 670
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #309 on: June 17, 2013, 12:01:38 pm »

That's just not true (that you have no choice).  You can stick with your present CS6 or earlier until the cows come home.  For new camera support you can use the free DNG converter if nothing else.  You can pay the $10 a month for a subscription and see what happens in the year to come before renewal comes around. Or you can switch trains - the choice is up to you.  If you think Adobe is presenting you with an onerous burden, Microsoft's release of the traditionally licensed version of Office 2013 was only authorized for 1 PC - no more installing to your desktop plus a laptop - and was permanently locked to the first machine you installed it on - retire that machine and upgrade to a new one, there was no uninstalling and moving the Office copy to the new computer, you had to buy a whole new full-price copy of Office for the new one and essentially trashcan the first one!  Still is that way if you get a PC with Office pre-installed by the manufacturer; the OEM version is not transferable to a new computer.  I have misgivings about the subscription model myself but some of you guys are really going to extremes in your vitriol.


Interesting you mention office, this reason and a few others are why so many people have switched to open source office type programs.  People vote with their feet if they don't like something.
Logged

ButchM

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 749
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #310 on: June 17, 2013, 12:01:56 pm »

That's just not true (that you have no choice).  You can stick with your present CS6 or earlier until the cows come home.  For new camera support you can use the free DNG converter if nothing else.  You can pay the $10 a month for a subscription and see what happens in the year to come before renewal comes around. Or you can switch trains - the choice is up to you.  If you think Adobe is presenting you with an onerous burden, Microsoft's release of the traditionally licensed version of Office 2013 was only authorized for 1 PC - no more installing to your desktop plus a laptop - and was permanently locked to the first machine you installed it on - retire that machine and upgrade to a new one, there was no uninstalling and moving the Office copy to the new computer, you had to buy a whole new full-price copy of Office for the new one and essentially trashcan the first one!  Still is that way if you get a PC with Office pre-installed by the manufacturer; the OEM version is not transferable to a new computer.  I have misgivings about the subscription model myself but some of you guys are really going to extremes in your vitriol.


So your defense of Adobe is by pointing out that there was a worse case in recent history? When my children tried to pull that crap for questionable behavior by pointing their finger at a sibling or friends who did even worse ... do you think that method earned them a reprieve for their actions? Poor decision making shouldn't be overlooked purely because someone else made a worse decision. We should never have to settle for the lesser of two evils.

I don't see the vitriol you mention in the Bernard's quote ... Adobe has indeed issued an end of life for Ps perpetual licensing. Plus, we all know, though we can use our current versions for some time ... that time period is not infinite ... especially at the current pace of OS and hardware advancement.

Adobe has stated (and Jeff has verified) that they dropped traditional perpetual license support because it became too difficult, troublesome and costly to provide while at the same time offering the CC model ... I don't doubt that to be the case ... though the resulting injuries they endured supporting both models before making the decision to drop perpetual licensing and further development of that model were self inflicted.

Adobe wasn't forced by market conditions or confining outside regulations to adopt the CC model ... it was Adobe's own concept because it stacked the deck in their favor. No government or other oversight entity forced them into a situation where they had no other option but to end perpetual licensing in order to survive ... knowing that, yes, a significant number of users are going to be upset.

Logged

Vladimirovich

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1311
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #311 on: June 17, 2013, 12:02:12 pm »

that's when he got seriously booed by the crowd of several hundred live attendees.

eggs or tomatoes will be good too
Logged

kirkt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 604
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #312 on: June 17, 2013, 12:07:13 pm »

Here is an interesting perspective on some of the historical reasons Adobe finds themselves at the current crossroads, from Dan Margulis:

http://www.moderncolorworkflow.com/blog

kirk
Logged

Vladimirovich

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1311
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #313 on: June 17, 2013, 12:10:25 pm »

That's just not true (that you have no choice).
I don't... I want to use (1) current and (2) full featured ACR (don't care about PS, but that is how I can use ACR)... so I have no choice but subscription model.
Logged

Vladimirovich

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1311
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #314 on: June 17, 2013, 12:11:44 pm »


Adobe has stated (and Jeff has verified) that they dropped traditional perpetual license support because it became too difficult, troublesome and costly to provide while at the same time offering the CC model


lie, they don't have any issues to supply LR both ways... they don't have any issues to supply code updates for ACR/LR raw conversion engine both ways...
Logged

ButchM

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 749
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #315 on: June 17, 2013, 12:29:10 pm »

lie, they don't have any issues to supply LR both ways... they don't have any issues to supply code updates for ACR/LR raw conversion engine both ways...

Yes, Lr is available in both perpetual and CC licensing ... keep in mind, that Lr is also the only Adobe perpetual app that I am aware of that also does not require activation in order to be used ... so it wouldn't have that hurdle to clear that the other CS apps do.

Lie? ... I am in no way defending Adobe's decision ... but I don't have any doubts that Adobe indeed came to the decision to drop CS perpetual licensing because of the extra burden and cost to provide both. By saying that I am in no way endorsing or validating that decision. It was the absolute wrong decision to make. Though, I can't label it to be an outright lie.
Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8913
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #316 on: June 17, 2013, 01:14:17 pm »

???
You want to print an image in Photoshop you just click  'Print' from the menu or hit Ctrl+P

Maybe this has changed for some printers?

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Rhossydd

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3369
    • http://www.paulholman.com
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #317 on: June 17, 2013, 01:19:43 pm »

The 16bit drivers for Canon printers aren't part of Photoshop, they're plug-ins to get the non-standard print pipeline in all OSs.
Logged

ButchM

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 749
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #318 on: June 17, 2013, 02:33:08 pm »

Here is an interesting perspective on some of the historical reasons Adobe finds themselves at the current crossroads, from Dan Margulis:

http://www.moderncolorworkflow.com/blog

kirk

Interesting read indeed ... I found this of particular interest: "... I said that this reaction was going to reduce the value of Adobe by about 15%. Since that time, as of this morning the company’s value has indeed dropped 10 percent relative to the NASDAQ index, a paper loss to Adobe of over $2 billion."

I don't think the execs or the board anticipated that much of a stock fluctuation so soon after the announcement. Even for a large corporation, that's a pretty big hit in about 6 weeks ... right before a momentous launch ... that seems to be on hold until 8 p.m. (PDT) tonight.
Logged

Steve House

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 247
Re: Adobe - Creative Cloud Update
« Reply #319 on: June 17, 2013, 03:14:47 pm »

I don't... I want to use (1) current and (2) full featured ACR (don't care about PS, but that is how I can use ACR)... so I have no choice but subscription model.
No, if you want full-featured ACR that is continuously updating for new hardware but don't need Photoshop's bell & whistles, use Lightroom and be happy.  Look, I'm not defending Adobe but it seems like some of the objections raised are over the top, making out that the situation is worse than it really is.  I've got a fridge full of transparency film that is languishing unused because professional colour labs offering quality E6 processing have gone the way of the dodo.  I'm not happy about it but I don't claim it's some plot from a cabal of Kodak, Fuji, and Agfa who set out to screw photographers or force us all to buy new digital gear.  Things evolve, live with it.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 14 15 [16] 17 18 ... 27   Go Up